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Old 28th Dec 2014, 11:48
  #321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
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I emailed TCX and whilst they are still checking they "think" Los Angeles is a mistake and will not now happen.

Maybe a case of left hand, right hand !
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 13:09
  #322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Seville appears on the list since last year...
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 13:14
  #323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
Age: 58
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Suzeman:
But true to form KGL you enjoy having a pop at MAN, so not surprised you should bring this up..
The same story about the over £2 million investment in snow removal equipment pops up from time to time, but compared to many other European airports the $2 million is only small change. One of the latest to upgrade is Innsbruck Airport that received three brand new Øveraasen Snowremoval Systems RSC400 in November.


Here is the new designed Performance Line RS400 being tested at Fagernes Airport, Leirin (VDB). Leirin is perfect airport for such testing with lots of snow, 2049 m runway and very little traffic (2 regular flights per day + a few weekly ski charters from LGW and Germany during the winter season). Four of these RS400 are going to Incheon International Airport in Seoul these days.

For deicing equipment Vestergaard Company in Denmark has some pretty good units. Something for ground handlers to look at?
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 14:04
  #324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockport
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Difference is we very rarely get snow, nothing more than a dusting for
a couple of years and is usually very wet snow not the powder you get
up in Norway/Sweden on even in central Europe
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 14:42
  #325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
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Well Ian, there are five airports along Norway's west coast with similar climate as MAN: KRS, SVG, HAU, BGO and AES. All these five experience mainly slush and use the same Øveraasen equipment as OSL - the RS400.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 15:49
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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what I really mean is we have not had any snow for 2 winters now
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 15:54
  #327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Shiny new snow ploughs!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbkcb/15932942770/
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 16:03
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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The question is when do you think they will get some use
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 16:25
  #329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
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The question is when do you think they will get some use
But only a few years back in 2009 & 2010 we had quite a lot of snow. I don't think MAN would have won many accolades then had we not had reasonably decent equipment. It's just so unpredictable.

Regarding de-icing equipment and that used for aircraft rather than runways and taxiways: Although it's apparently the responsibility of the handling agents/flight operators for de-icing the a/c, is the equipment owned by the airport? If so, presumably it's also their job to maintain it and ensure the rigs are all serviceable. If not, I guess it's quite an expense for the handling agent.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 17:24
  #330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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It actually had nothing to do with the airport, the equipment or the handling agents, it was all down to the amount of time that it took to de-ice the aeroplanes.

Normally it takes 5-10 minutes, but yesterday morning it took almost 40 minutes to clear the ice off my 737-800, all due to the severity of the ice. This was not your regular frost, this was rain from the previous evening that had frozen solid and was stuck like sh1t to a blanket. Each aeroplane took considerably longer than normal, hence the delays building.

Oh, and by the way it does happen at other airports across Europe too, they just don't bleat like the British. A friend of mine waited 2 hours a couple of days ago in Zurich for de-icing, and that is certainly somewhere that gets more snow and ice than we do.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 17:30
  #331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 557
Snow business

Aircraft de-icing equipment is all owned by the handling companies, the airport has no involvement. At MAN it is Airline Services and Swissport (Servisair).

The media and twitterers whip up a frnzy every time transport is disrupted by snow/ice. They should pause a moment and think about what is involved - the considerable capital investment in equipment which is rarely used, and trying to stockpile materials to deal with unpredictable and very peaky demand. Do they want to pay for this in their ticket prices? Also, the manpower requirements. Over the Christmas holidays, despite fairly attractive call-out payments, most people who are not rostered on duty would prefer to be with their families and friends and therefore can't be relied upon to be available. This is the real world and we have to live with it. Stay at home and get your feet up - it's Christmas!

Last edited by roverman; 28th Dec 2014 at 17:31. Reason: additional info
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 17:48
  #332 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
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Over the Christmas holidays, despite fairly attractive call-out payments
Those days are long gone. There's no premium paid anymore by any of the companies involved at the airport.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 17:51
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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Zurich ?

See also Leeds re deicing issues.

I hardly think Innsbruck is a fair comparison in terms of metar conditions KGL !

We may be the centre of the universe for football and music, but I cannot see us putting in a bid for the Winter Olympics anytime soon !
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 18:09
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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Yes Bagso, you heard me right, Zurich!
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 20:09
  #335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
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Cool

Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
It actually had nothing to do with the airport, the equipment or the handling agents, it was all down to the amount of time that it took to de-ice the aeroplanes.

Normally it takes 5-10 minutes, but yesterday morning it took almost 40 minutes to clear the ice off my 737-800, all due to the severity of the ice. This was not your regular frost, this was rain from the previous evening that had frozen solid and was stuck like sh1t to a blanket. Each aeroplane took considerably longer than normal, hence the delays building.

Oh, and by the way it does happen at other airports across Europe too, they just don't bleat like the British. A friend of mine waited 2 hours a couple of days ago in Zurich for de-icing, and that is certainly somewhere that gets more snow and ice than we do.
That is not the airports or handling agents fault, it is the airlines! With accurate weather forecasts and the know fact that snow/freezing weather was coming, you anti-ice. That way when you come to de-ice it still only takes 5-10 minutes. No doubt it is the bean counters saving a few quid by not allowing anti-icing to be done, and then end up paying 4x as much because you can't get the stuff off the next day, or just poor planning.

A few years ago, unless you had anti-iced the night before you would go to the back of the queue for de-icing as you held everybody else up and caused shortages of fluid.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 21:25
  #336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Thank you Johnny [email protected] Pants for putting some perspective on this Christmas's airport non-story. Love the username by the way. With a name like that I'm slightly surprised you couldn't de-ice your 737-800 yourself using the..ahem..."reverse cycle rear mounted afterburner method"

Come to think of it, this non-incident occurred on Boxing Day. So all those moaning and tweeting passengers would presumably have been stuffed to the gills with turkey, brussels sprouts and Xmas pud. Just imagine if the handling agents could have somehow harnessed all that pent up energy - they could have got the planes moving in no time at all !!

And with every wife and mother in the UK currently currying anything that even vaguely resembles turkey and veg left overs, the "benefits" could last for days

Happy New Year all
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 22:29
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Spanners - I suppose that's the price we have to pay and accept if we demand low fares with margins cut to the bone.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 23:12
  #338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Andalucia
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When I worked at MAN, which is approaching 9 years ago now, the agent, which was not Servisair, would ring or drop into Maintrol to see if we wanted Anti-Ice that night, I suppose things change.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 23:24
  #339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 31
QUOTE]The media and twitterers whip up a frnzy every time transport is disrupted by snow/ice. They should pause a moment and think about what is involved - the considerable capital investment in equipment which is rarely used, and trying to stockpile materials to deal with unpredictable and very peaky demand. Do they want to pay for this in their ticket prices?[/QUOTE]

Speaking for myself. Yes. Just like good ATC and fire cover.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 23:40
  #340 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
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what I really mean is we have not had any snow for 2 winters now
But only a few years back in 2009 & 2010 we had quite a lot of snow.
Yes, and before that none for about 20 years.
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