MANCHESTER 1
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Anyone know what's up with AA54 this morning?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Going to be some unhappy pax diverting to a different country ...
Meanwhile, at MAN, holding delays aren't too bad right now. Early to mid-morning is routinely quieter for arrivals on Sat/Sun mornings than we see on weekdays. Also, as often happens when low visibility is forecast / reported, many services operated by DH8D's, ATR's, SB20's etc. remain on the ground at their points of origin until either the weather conditions improve or the operators cancel and consolidate loads with later flights.
Flow control has become extremely adept at managing the rate of short-haul arrivals at busier airports during adverse weather conditions.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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LAX, interesting that you say the planning permissions are in place. Can you advise what they cover and when they were submitted? I've searched the Manchester City Council planning portal and can't find any applications of relevance.
Some design work clearly has been done but basically only enough to understand how the main elements might fit in the space available. When the notice was issued in June seeking to appoint the main design and engineering team or this project, it was clearly stated that the current work is only up to RIBA Work Stage - concept design.
Do not underestimate the complexity of this project or the amount of information that needs to be provided to a planning authority these days before they can approve a planning application - or the amount of time that process could take.
Some design work clearly has been done but basically only enough to understand how the main elements might fit in the space available. When the notice was issued in June seeking to appoint the main design and engineering team or this project, it was clearly stated that the current work is only up to RIBA Work Stage - concept design.
Do not underestimate the complexity of this project or the amount of information that needs to be provided to a planning authority these days before they can approve a planning application - or the amount of time that process could take.
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LAX, interesting that you say the planning permissions are in place. Can you advise what they cover and when they were submitted? I've searched the Manchester City Council planning portal and can't find any applications of relevance.
However as you say there is nothing showing in the Planning portal and as I posted above even the one for the car park etc near the RVP submitted in January still hasn't been settled.
Unfortunately I fear nothing will start next year because if for no other reason there will be very strong opposition to the expansion.
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V702 - Whilst local residents have expressed strong opposition to car park developments replacing green-field sites, I don't detect any opposition from residents concerning redevelopment of terminal buildings wholly within the airport's existing boundaries. There was no adverse reaction locally when the Terminals Transformation Project was announced amidst extensive publicity. As a resident myself, it makes no difference to life at home whether passengers at the airport transit an old building or a new one. There won't be any objection from me, and I'd be surprised if my near neighbours would have any objection either. Indeed, the more prevalent view is that the sooner those old buildings are replaced with state-of-the-art new ones the better. An improved user-experience would be welcomed by all. Residents use the airport too, and many actually work in those buildings. They can start construction tomorrow for me.
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V702 - Whilst local residents have expressed strong opposition to car park developments replacing green-field sites, I don't detect any opposition from residents concerning redevelopment of terminal buildings wholly within the airport's existing boundaries. There was no adverse reaction locally when the Terminals Transformation Project was announced amidst extensive publicity. As a resident myself, it makes no difference to life at home whether passengers at the airport transit an old building or a new one. There won't be any objection from me, and I'd be surprised if my near neighbours would have any objection either. Indeed, the more prevalent view is that the sooner those old buildings are replaced with state-of-the-art new ones the better. An improved user-experience would be welcomed by all. Residents use the airport too, and many actually work in those buildings. They can start construction tomorrow for me. 3rd Oct 2015 19:49
The trouble is based on what we know development can't start until the area required for the expansion is cleared. The car park near the RVP is needed (according to the airport) but they are clearly having problems with planning.
As we know parking of cars is better for the airport than planes because it brings in more money. However I think the airport have done themselves no favours in constantly needing more parking spaces and latterly using the expansion as an excuse. Why is all this new car parking needed before the expansion.
The new 9000 space carpark under 23R was we were led to believe needed for and to allow for expansion. They have that but there has been little reduction in the parking to the west of T2. They then apply for more parking near to the RVP and if the comments above are correct they are applying for two more before applying for the terminal expansion. I am not surprised there is opposition as the only applications so far are for parking in green areas and nothing for expansion on non green areas.
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Which car park near the RVP do you mean? As far as I'm aware, there is nothing near the RVP which is required for the terminal extensions. The closest development in the master plans are the logistics parks already under construction?
The car parks to the west of T2 are being replaced by an extended multi storey in front of T2 (an extension to the one already present) a new multi storey just west of that will be built and a new 'meet and greet' car park will be constructed in the parcel of land in the middle of the M56 junction.
It's those car parks that are, and always have been needed to shift the cars from the apron and just beyond the aprons to let construction of the terminals begin (I assume the staff car park will be in the multi storey being built next to T2?)
From what I understand, the final designs are now in MAG possession, the planning permissions have been written up and are due to be submitted, and no reasonable objections are expected as the majority of the building will be on already occupied land, or, in the case of the M56 land, no public access is prevalent so no objections expected.
MAG are confident of an April start for the 2 car parks near T2, and October for possession of at least the apron and hopefully the associated land adjacent ready for development.
The car parks to the west of T2 are being replaced by an extended multi storey in front of T2 (an extension to the one already present) a new multi storey just west of that will be built and a new 'meet and greet' car park will be constructed in the parcel of land in the middle of the M56 junction.
It's those car parks that are, and always have been needed to shift the cars from the apron and just beyond the aprons to let construction of the terminals begin (I assume the staff car park will be in the multi storey being built next to T2?)
From what I understand, the final designs are now in MAG possession, the planning permissions have been written up and are due to be submitted, and no reasonable objections are expected as the majority of the building will be on already occupied land, or, in the case of the M56 land, no public access is prevalent so no objections expected.
MAG are confident of an April start for the 2 car parks near T2, and October for possession of at least the apron and hopefully the associated land adjacent ready for development.
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The one for which planning permission was applied for in January 2015 and has not yet been granted. It is for 2500 spaces and for the replacement coaching facility. The existing coaching facility is I understand currently on what will be the site of the new multi storey car park mentioned in your post. The January planning application clearly states what it is for and is situate off Sunbank Lane and Wilmslow Old Road on the other side of the A538 to the logistics parks
An extract from the planning statement below
This Planning Statement has been prepared in support of an application for the development of land to the west of Wilmslow Old Road, south of Sunbank Lane and east of the A538 Wilmslow Road, Manchester for operational storage and car parking associated with Manchester Airport. The application seeks permission to develop the land to accommodate operational vehicle storage (bussing operartion and snow fleet) and long stay car storage (for up to 3,000 vehicles) that will be displaced by the development of Terminal facilities and new apron at the Airport. Additionally, it seeks permission for a realignment of Sunbank Lane to facilitate the development of World Logisitics Hub whilst preserving access to properties and businesses on Sunbank Lane and Wilmslow Old Road.
An extract from the planning statement below
This Planning Statement has been prepared in support of an application for the development of land to the west of Wilmslow Old Road, south of Sunbank Lane and east of the A538 Wilmslow Road, Manchester for operational storage and car parking associated with Manchester Airport. The application seeks permission to develop the land to accommodate operational vehicle storage (bussing operartion and snow fleet) and long stay car storage (for up to 3,000 vehicles) that will be displaced by the development of Terminal facilities and new apron at the Airport. Additionally, it seeks permission for a realignment of Sunbank Lane to facilitate the development of World Logisitics Hub whilst preserving access to properties and businesses on Sunbank Lane and Wilmslow Old Road.
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I think that app was paused, as, don't quote me on it, but I think it's now going to be part of the meet and greet car park in the M56 area now.
I'll double check, but, at the last meeting a few weeks ago, there were certainly no critical elements listed near the RVP in terms of the airport expansion.
I'll double check, but, at the last meeting a few weeks ago, there were certainly no critical elements listed near the RVP in terms of the airport expansion.
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I think that app was paused, as, don't quote me on it, but I think it's now going to be part of the meet and greet car park in the M56 area now.
I'll double check, but, at the last meeting a few weeks ago, there were certainly no critical elements listed near the RVP in terms of the airport expansion.
I'll double check, but, at the last meeting a few weeks ago, there were certainly no critical elements listed near the RVP in terms of the airport expansion.
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What's run into problems?
AFAIK, the coaching has been moved as it was deemed better to have the coaching closer, as MAG want to improve the customer experience by cutting down waiting times, and in this case, transit times from car parked such as this.
AFAIK, the coaching has been moved as it was deemed better to have the coaching closer, as MAG want to improve the customer experience by cutting down waiting times, and in this case, transit times from car parked such as this.
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What's run into problems?
However I do think there may be a problem.
From looking at what has been said in the planning application I don't believe the facility near the RVP was one to which the public was intended to have access and would therefore not affect the customer experience or waiting or transit times
It was to be used for the storage of the snow fleet, the storage of buses and long term storage of cars, (which I take to mean cars dropped off by PAX at another car park or terminal and taken there by MAN for storage whilst the PAXs are away and also not staff cars) which facilities or some of them are currently situate where terminal development is to take place and have to be moved.
Also if the facility was no longer required then it would be normal for the planning application to be withdrawn rather than leave it in because the planners have to action any submitted application which would be pointless if it wasn't needed.
The Manchester Planning portal isn't that good because it doesn't say why there is a delay or even if the application has been withdrawn or whatever. In fact there was a suggestion that the application was to go to committee on the 24 September. If it did there is nothing to say what the outcome was.
I think but could be proved to be wrong that the facility is still required but there is some problem (it was supposed to have been decided by May this year) but still hasn't. If it is still required then the lack of permission and the ability to start work on it could cause delays.
Last edited by viscount702; 4th Oct 2015 at 17:36.
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New 2 weekly Vueling route to Rome FCO from 27th June
VY6304 FCO 1745 MAN 1945
VY6305 MAN 2025 FCO 0015
Monday's
VY6304 FCO 1240 MAN 1440
VY6305 MAN 1520 FCO 1910
Friday's
Good news that they are expanding again.
VY6304 FCO 1745 MAN 1945
VY6305 MAN 2025 FCO 0015
Monday's
VY6304 FCO 1240 MAN 1440
VY6305 MAN 1520 FCO 1910
Friday's
Good news that they are expanding again.
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As reported earlier FR are to operate to BTS. Now showing on their timetable for Wednesday Friday and Sunday. Times given but not yet bookable.
These flight mean 8 aircraft are required for the first wave on every day.
These flight mean 8 aircraft are required for the first wave on every day.