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Another runway at Heathrow

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Another runway at Heathrow

Old 13th May 2015, 10:53
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What amazes me is that some people on the proposed HS2 track have already been compensated on house values well above inflation.......on that basis im not sure how much has been spent already.

But surely a minister somewhere would think it needs joining directly to LHR IF they area mad enough to go ahead !
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Old 13th May 2015, 12:50
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I think the FT article suggested that around a billion has already been spent....

And I agree that HS2 is pretty pointless unless it's part of a network of high(er) speed rail links. What's needed is a coordinated approach, probably involving less ambitious speed targets but benefitting many more cities. With links into airports (note the plural).
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Old 13th May 2015, 12:59
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During the election there was much talk about the need to find £8B by 2020 for the NHS, here we have two projects HS2 & R3 which are going to cost at least £60B, ie 7x more. No wonder they were not mentioned during the campaign
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Old 13th May 2015, 14:29
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R3 would be a privately-funded project, with an attractive return (both financial and economic). In contrast, HS2 requires 100% taxpayer funding, with no financial return and a marginal economic case.

By the way,the £8bn for the NHS is per annum, not a one-off...
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Old 13th May 2015, 14:39
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Further interesting times ahead ....

Zac Goldsmith: Heathrow expansion would split cabinet - BBC News


And probably off-thread, but might lack of an LHR R3 cause BA to increase its A380 commitment?
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Old 13th May 2015, 15:13
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But not split the cabinet in terms of a real debate about capital spending priorities but split the cabinet in terms of

1) more noise (even if its perceived and not real ) for my constituents -vote against
If I am more than 20 miles away -vote for
PB
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Old 14th May 2015, 05:58
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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I believe that Easy-jets support of R3 is because it would cause such chaos at Lhr that it would benefit them at their home base viz BA.
I am sure WW must be thinking the same, just think the tearing up of the M25 would make access to T5 very difficult for a number of years. The M25 is regularly gridlocked now, and even when finished the increased traffic flow on the M4/M25 would lead to major headaches
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Old 14th May 2015, 06:21
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I believe that Easy-jets support of R3 is because it would cause such chaos at Lhr

Carolyn MCall was on 5 live earlier this week suggesting a quick decision on airport runways and LHR BUT I thought exactly same as Walnut.

If you plunge your competitor airline into what will be years of utter chaos would you not walk away smiling !

LHR WAS brilliant for what it has done over last 30 years but its location which was a blessing is now a absolute curse.

Everyone is talking "fast and loose" about putting another runway in as though this will solve the problem, the surrounding infrastructure around LHR road/rail required to reap the benefits is the major issue.

I don't personally think that can be solved.
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Old 14th May 2015, 18:22
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently not, in order to connect "swiftly" from The Midlands or The North Of England we will all have to change in "North Acton", lug our bags up 2 escalators, then down two more, yomp across 4 platforms, then get another train that deposits us in the centre of Heathrow where we can then get a bus to take us to the right terminal , and all this 2 hours after alighting from a mode of transport that apparently will got us to North Acton in less than an hour in the first place !!!!!!!
Exactly, it’s clearly nonsense, no one will do that, far better to fly between Heathrow and Ringway.

Over exaggeration just a bit , but a damn sight near the reality.
No exaggeration at all, it’s exactly the reality!

If rail connections are convoluted what of roads how do you make the most of the expansion unless in tandem you upgrade the M25/M40/M4 and the M3. Surely these will require overwhelming surgery ?
Already started on the M3, whether it’s the right sort of upgrade (allowing drivers to use the hard shoulder) is a moot point.

The politics of HS2 are beyond me, but there was an interesting article in the FT over the weekend (behind a paywall I'm afraid).

It contrasted the very poor benefit/cost ratio of HS2 with the very attractive forecast for LHR R3 (even at the grossly inflated cost estimates for R3).

It wouldn't surprise me if HS2 gets quietly dumped, especially if the North-West politicians/council leaders finally realise that all it will do is further reinforce the dominance of London. I've always been mystified as to why Richard Leese and others have been so supportive of HS2.
It will be dumped, for precisely the reasons you mention. Plus it has nothing to contribute to the "Northern Powerhouse" (sic).

We all know that this is going to continue to be kicked into the long grass. As we say in the UK, "Yes, Minister".
Regretable, but probably correct, so even more public money wasted. Been going on since 1971 (Roskill), add it all up and it would be a frightening amount.

Odd how it is the 'Make Britain Greater Still' brigade who are the most opposed to things like this and then they sit back and whine (wine too) about how the frogs and krauts (their words not mine) always end up better off than us
PB.

And the best reason of all for building R3 is that Boris would be part of the foundations and we would no longer have to put up with his cartoon clown disguise for a very nasty ultra right ambition.
Maybe a few more will join him in the foundations. Makes a change from propping up a motorway flyover……..
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Old 15th May 2015, 17:10
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the MP for Richmond or whatever has said he'll resign over a third runway at LHR - with a majority of 8 can see that having a lot of traction in No.10

first of the Tory blackmailers - there'll be more of course on all sorts of issues but this si why Dave would have been better with a coalition.................
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Old 16th May 2015, 11:44
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Jim O?Neill is the right man to kickstart Northern powerhouse - Telegraph

Apols as i posted this on the MAN thread but highly relevent to this topic.

Somebody else lukewarm about SE airports expansion who has just been appointed into a senior position.

Could be a real problem for supporters of LHR/LGW as this chap comments will carry real traction.
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Old 16th May 2015, 16:51
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If you plunge your competitor airline into what will be years of utter chaos would you not walk away smiling !
Why would building another runway cause years of chaos?. They have managed to build two new terminals at the airport in the recent past and things carried on much as normal (which I admit is pretty close to chaos at lot of the time).
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Old 16th May 2015, 18:59
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[QUOTE=Max Angle;8979009]Why would building another runway cause years of chaos?. They have managed to build two new terminals at the airport in the recent past and things carried on much as normal (which I admit is pretty close to chaos at lot of the time).[/QUOTE

Because they didn't have to dig up the M4 and M25 to build Terminals 2 and 5!

Obviously road access to Heathrow will be affected with plans for R3 but no pain no gain and within a few years once everything is built as in roads, new terminal and of course R3 we will all be smiling😊

SEAN
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Old 17th May 2015, 12:31
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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On Sunday Politics 17/5 two MPs Sadiq Khan (Tooting) standing for Labour Mayor of London and a Cons MP for Wimbledon both clearly said they were against it.
I can see this is going to become a major political issue for the London Mayor race, no one is going to risk losing votes over this so??
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Old 18th May 2015, 19:29
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Carolyn MCall was on 5 live earlier this week suggesting a quick decision on airport runways and LHR BUT I thought exactly same as Walnut.

If you plunge your competitor airline into what will be years of utter chaos would you not walk away smiling !
Would imagine that U2's support for LHR has more to do with long term opportunities for the carrier to make money rather than anything that machivellian. Which "competitor airline" are you thinking of? BA? not going to be "years of utter chaos" for it.


the MP for Richmond or whatever has said he'll resign over a third runway at LHR - with a majority of 8 can see that having a lot of traction in No.10

first of the Tory blackmailers - there'll be more of course on all sorts of issues but this si why Dave would have been better with a coalition.................
Not really: he resigns, by-election is held, another Conservative is elected, itís not exactly a marginal seat, no one will lose any sleep.

Unless he is planning to run as run as an independent.........Call me Dave can even get around that one if he plays it cleverly.

Dave would have been better off with a minority government in 2010, government MPs would not have rocked the boat for fear of being toppled, opposition MPs wouldnít have attempted to bring down the government for fear of being blamed for a second election. The result: moderation. But itís history now. In 2015, it doesn't apply.



On Sunday Politics 17/5 two MPs Sadiq Khan (Tooting) standing for Labour Mayor of London and a Cons MP for Wimbledon both clearly said they were against it.
I can see this is going to become a major political issue for the London Mayor race, no one is going to risk losing votes over this so??
Have said this many times, so forgive me for being tedious: funny, isn't it, how the tiny vocal minority always opposes Heathrow expansion from several miles away. This is yet another example, Tooting and Wimbledon are not exactly airport constituencies.
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Old 19th May 2015, 04:30
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No Its pragmatic politics, almost no one in London except those that use Lhr, 5%? will support expansion because every morning from 0430 the noise starts.
I don't live there now but I have and its enough to drive you to insanity.
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Old 19th May 2015, 07:11
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Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank View Post
Tooting and Wimbledon are not exactly airport constituencies.
Using that logic, only the residents of Hayes and Harlington, the constituency in which most of Heathrow is located, would be entitled to a voice.

Though, being north of the airport's east-west runways, they probably suffer less from aircraft noise than the aforesaid Tooting and Wimbledon residents.
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Old 19th May 2015, 08:32
  #138 (permalink)  
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Walnut
... but I have and its enough to drive you to insanity.
Not necessarily.

At various times in the past 36 years I have lived:
  • West London under the usual approach to LHR
  • Hertfordshire under the approach/departure for LTN
  • Currently North London under one of the approach/departures for LHR
On the occasions that the noise level is higher than usual, or starts earlier/continues later, I remind myself of the enormous convenience I have of being so close to this major hub. When I lived near LTN, it helped me get to clients and work places in the UK and Europe, not to mention visiting my mother in the IOM.

I once lived over a pub, sometimes noisy and even though I rarely visited it, I did not have to drive.
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Old 19th May 2015, 09:59
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There will not be another runway in the Southeast in my lifetime and that takes me up to about 2040. Going all the way back to the 1970s successive governments have backed away from making any kind of sensible decision. When I first went to the Queens Building in 1978 to watch the aircraft coming and going at LHR they were ten deep at the holding point with four or five always flying down the approach. Fast forward nearly 40 years and what has changed! Planes have got bigger and more passengers arrive and depart but there are only so many planes you can have at a holding point or flying down the approach with the existing capacity. As it currently stands, if the Davis report suggests another runway it won't be built until at least 2025 and that's optimistic to say the very least! During the past 40 years Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Madrid, Munich, Athens, Barcelona etc have all added runways while all we've done in the Southeast is add London City!
Gatwick has the dubious label as world's busiest single runway airport. with 40 million soon to pass through annually it's simply unbelievable that they have to manage with just one runway! Many US airports with similar pax numbers have three or four runways! Both labour and the Conservatives want shooting over what must what be the longest running soap opera this country has ever seen. We missed the boat years ago but still all the cock and bull carries on!
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Old 19th May 2015, 17:16
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airport expansion in the SE comes up against the basic problem that no-one wants more noise, more construction activity and anything that affects their house values

There are NO votes in it - and as this is some sort of democracy the politicians listen......

The law will allow objectors years of cases, appeals and reviews

Lets just save ourselves a lot of cost, angst and frustration and give the idea up - go for larger aircraft into LHR & Gatwick and expand the regional airports; extend Eursstar services further into Europe as well
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