Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Airlines, Airports & Routes
Reload this Page >

Another runway at Heathrow

Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Another runway at Heathrow

Old 10th Aug 2015, 07:41
  #521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You are right I have not read all the Davies report, perhaps I should. However having been in the aviation community for 34yrs, started flying ex LHR in 1969, when it then had 3 R/Ws I have observed that environmental interests always prevail. Take the building of Munich, Oslo, CDG, HKG, a/p's etc, plus numerous battles for extra R/W's at FRA NRT MAN.
So the normal progression is extra terminals, ie the original T2 extention plus T4 at Lhr leading to the closure of R/W 23, then T5, and so surprise surprise an airport becomes capacity constrained
The UK was urged in Dec 2002 by IATA to expand Lhr capacity, 13yrs later zilch
No politician is going to have the bottle to bulldoze circa 1000 homes and subject 8 million Londoners to twin parallel approach noise paths throughout the day.
Most major airports have night curfews, and one thing Davies did say was "no movements before 6am" Current Lhr will not be able to comply with this.
Having been in the business and seen worldwide the effects our operations conflict with those below, I am convinced the tiny % of business travellers viz the rest will not win this arguement
Walnut is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2015, 12:58
  #522 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 67
Posts: 10,218
Received 75 Likes on 60 Posts
I agree Walnut. The argument was lost 25 years ago and it is now too late. Way too late to build another. BA will be delighted - but they will continue to lose customers. However, it will happen slowly over time and no one will get the blame.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2015, 14:12
  #523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And this abuse of market power is why I said, on another thread, Lgw should get a second runway to prevent this happening. Capitalism doesn't always behave well towards the consumer and we have seen enough of the effects of that in the UK already, big banks, big supermarkets etc. Allowing Lhr to expand and making it very difficult for others to compete, eg at Lgw, only rewards further the monopoly situation that almost now exists with regards to long haul ex London. With London being one of the biggest markets in the world, these airlines that threaten to go elsewhere, like CDG, will never walk away from London, regardless of what they say. As the market grows and they want a share of it, if the only option was Lgw with a second runway or nothing, they would be in there in an instant. And I believe in capitalism all the way.
True Blue is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2015, 15:09
  #524 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: leeds
Age: 77
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just don't follow that line of argument True Blue. EU rules say that 50% of the new slots at LHR have to go to new entrants as defined. Surely that, together with increased slots for existing carriers at LHR must dilute the monopoly power of the incumbents, which is no doubt why WW says what he says on behalf of his shareholders. Surely expanding capacity at the hub must be more pro-competitive than expanding capacity somewhere thirty miles away which is only in competition with LHR for parts of the market. And, surely if it turns out for one reason or another that LHR3 is no go, it is still possible to turn to LGW as a second best option.

The acid test is what's in the national interest, not what's in BA's interest.
anothertyke is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2015, 15:52
  #525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And by the time it is built in 10+ years time, it will fill up in a flash, back to monopoly position.
True Blue is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2015, 15:53
  #526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Anothertyke is absolutely right. Competition would better be provided by expanding LHR, where the current barriers to entry result in the incumbents having market power. Expanding LGW wouldn't help resolve this. The imbalance between demand and capacity at LHR hasn't been resolved by the fact that the other London airports have had substantial surplus capacity for years. And it wouldn't be resolved by a second runway at Gatwick.

It's worth reading easyJet's submission to the Davies commission.
BasilBush is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2015, 21:39
  #527 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What are the chances the government will give the green light to a third runway at Lhr and let a legal challenge do the dirty work and sink it through the courts? That way, no blame on the government. Also the election of a new Labour party leader might have a big bearing on this as well?
True Blue is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2015, 07:44
  #528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: leeds
Age: 77
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Big loss of face for Cameron and Ossie to Boris if that happened. I think the six months from Davies to the decision point is for the system to get the ducks in a row. That includes taking a view on all the risks---legal, protestor, cost escalation, the financing, the regulatory deal etc---and how to manage them.

If they go for it and it falls over subsequently that will be egg on face not some devilish plot.

Labour---aren't all four in favour?
anothertyke is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2015, 08:05
  #529 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,990
Received 313 Likes on 160 Posts
Originally Posted by anothertyke
Labour---aren't all four in favour?
No, only 3 of them.

Jeremy Corbyn's election as leader of Labour party could scupper plans for third runway at Heathrow - UK Politics - UK - The Independent
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2015, 06:42
  #530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK (reluctantly)
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wonder how much WW is being influenced in his extreme negotiating position by conversations he's been having with MO....
Ryanair is “in active discussions with Aer Lingus here in Dublin, with IAG in the UK and TAP in Portugal” regarding interline agreements, according to CEO Michael O’Leary (Reuters, 10-Aug-2015). Mr O’Leary said: “What we see over the next five, 10 years is that we become a feeder for other long-haul airlines. The advantage for them is they would get much cheaper short-haul feed than they would from anybody else, but what they have to get themselves mentally over is that they would have to take responsibility for missed connections.”
TB - I don't think those operating LHR-JFK would agree there's a monopoly at LHR.
Trash 'n' Navs is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2015, 10:00
  #531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
there is a virtual monopoly when it comes to airports and it would seem the strength of Lhr prevents anything meaning full from getting off the ground at Lgw or Stn. And what was discussed earlier on this thread, higher fares for us as a result.
True Blue is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.