SOUTHEND 5

[Buster the Bear]

Website has been optimised for mobile devices. I assume that previous traffic to their site has driven the decision? PC friendly it isn't, but that is not what has been designed for.

[Harry Wayfarers]

No, your being a pedant, and while there is sometimes a time for pedantry, this isn't it. It's meant to be a quick guide as to what's available from SEN with the aim of getting more people to use the airport rather than a discussion on the international status of various territories.
?

Sticks and stones, sticks and stones, I didn't recognise that this was a thread for name calling so please excuse if I do not lower myself to the standard of other(s).

What country would you suggest Tenerife is listed under?

Whose to say that destinations need to be identified by their countries of ownership, why not be honest and let the punters know where they are actually going?

Here's a novel idea, perhaps it may even catch on:

[davidjohnson6]

I know everyone means well and wants to contribute to the discussion, but do you think we could raise the level of the debate here ever so slightly please ? It's getting a bit tedious discussing the minutiae of the website and how destinations are labelled. Plenty of websites when they go live have the odd glaring foul-up - these are usually fixed within a few weeks while things settle down

If you want to help and give plentiful constructive comments about how the website could be improved (no ranting about trivial things) I'm sure the person managing the SEN website would be happy to hear your comments at this stage; he/she will certainly expect to do some remedial work and would rather fix it now rather than let it fester and create a bad impression. Web developers are all humans; they don't like giving out a personal email address for fear of spam but if someone seems genuinely wanting to help they virtually always want to listen to what you have to say privately

[Expressflight]

davidjohnson

I totally agree with all your sentiments.

However as regards you're last paragraph you would also think that they may have welcomed the suggestion a few weeks before it appeared that they run it by some real potential users before it went 'live' to gain their reaction.

[DC3 Dave]

It's a little strange but the new website is beginning to grow on me. It definitely is more smart phone friendly but that's the way the world's going. And if they've decided to highlight the fact that a range of destinations are available from the airport then that has to be better than urging people to turn up and admire the facilities. Just wish they'd got their facts straight before going live, but it's not the end of the world.

Thinking about the new routes, I wonder what Stobart need to achieve over the summer for the decision to extend the Flybe franchise to be considered a success?

[BA318]

The constant negativity on this thread is depressing.


So what if a couple of images are not exact. Who has ever booked a holiday based on one picture on an airport website? The LCY site feature similar pictures including Aberdeen and Milan which look like they could be anywhere.


As for the argument about the Canary Islands being listed as Spain. Come on! If someone books a flight to Tenerife to visit family in Alicante they deserve to be in the wrong destination. Have you ever booked a flight to Stornoway or the Scilly Isles to visit Newcastle? Nope. Thought not.


People complained there was no advertising of new routes. Stobart have since advertised in local and national papers - the advert was combined with a recruitment ad in some which got further criticism from the armchair CEOs here including because the Daily Mail must have been a desperate plea because apparently flight crew don't read the Daily Mail. They also commissioned surveys which get further publicity but that was also rubbished as a waste of money - despite many airports doing this.


Stobart have invested a lot of money. I doubt they want to see it wasted. They may need to adapt but we certainly can't say they haven't tried. There have been some successes. After all, Easyjet are basing three aircraft at the airport. They are not a charity and wouldn't do it unless it worked for them.


LCY took years before it was remotely successful and even then it still has up and down years - just this year it's lost services to Bremen, Hamburg and Madrid.


Lets try and take things a bit easier and perhaps not rubbish everything that is done, some of which seems to be said without any thought or knowledge just to get a quick criticism in.

[flight_mode]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Remind me, they've invested how much in SEN?

Remind me, they've borrowed how much and put into SEN?

There, I fixed it for you

[DC3 Dave]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. Whoever's money has been invested in LSA, be it messers Stobart or the banks, I hope they earn a handsome return. For now in the footprint of a dying airfield that had tumbleweed blowing across a decaying runway is (with all its limitations) a modern facility that us who live in the region should value.

[cumbrianboy]

@FlightMode?

Seriously? If we follow your logic, how much money have BA BORROWED to buy new aircraft, or how much have Tesco Borrowed to build a new store, or Virgin Atlantic Borrowed to buy the dream liners ...

I despair ...

[flight_mode]

Sorry cumbrianboy. Nothing wrong with borrowing at all. But Stobart do have over £20mil debt in in an asset barely scraping a positive EBITDA. Still, they keep throwing cash at it.

[Barling Magna]

Still, they keep throwing cash at it.

The potential gain from their investment is clear. With this latest investment all the essentials will be in place and SEN will have every chance of success.

Of course they will need some good marketing, a high standard of reliability and efficiency, and some good fortune, plus the ability to hold their nerve when progress can seem slow - but the future looks bright to me.

[canberra97]

So many 'Debbie Downers' on this forum, one minute there up next there dismissal of everything, look back to five years ago and look how SEN has evolved into the airport it is today.

And as far as borrowing is concerned everyone does that, has none of you ever had a mortgage, well that's borrowing isn't it.

The worst 'Debbie Downer' on this forum who gets a full ten out ten is wait for it, we know who is and his username begins with an H.

Does he have an agenda or just plain arrogant.

[mikkie4]

JERSEY

Jersey has had its MOUNTAINS flattened, nice picture of boats and water on the new web site MUCH BETTER

[flight_mode]

Originally Posted by canberra97

And as far as borrowing is concerned everyone does that, has none of you ever had a mortgage, well that's borrowing isn't it.

I'm a relative stranger to this part of PPRuNe. My comment about the borrowing may have been taken out of context. My underlying point (as a shareholder in Stobart not as an passionate SEN supporter) is the gearing is too high.

Stobart has been relatively debt free for a long time. Now the aviation domain of Stobarts is roughly 4 times the size of the transport domain, yet it only contributed 0.7 Mil EBITDA in the last 6 month reporting period... which with debt interest is < £0.

As a shareholder, I'm concerned that the aviation division is now the biggest part of the business yet contributes nothing to the bottom line.

By far my biggest concern is not the airport itself, it's everything connected to it. In pursuit of value Stobarts have been steadily buying up the aviation value chain in order to extract some value from *somewhere*. They should have proved the business case for the airport first.

They leased SEN. Fine.
They became an airport operator without any knowledge of the business. Sort of fine. Last year they hired some good people.
They built a train station to bring pax to the airport. It doesn't fulfil that purpose during the operating hours of the airport.
Still, no sign of making it work they went further;
Built a solar farm on the roof
Built a hotel
Acquired a regional airline
Acquired a aircraft leasing business
Signed heads of terms with Cityjet. which collapsed.

As the old saying goes. In the airline business the best way to make a million is to start with a billion.

Barling Magna has it right as an optimist "The potential gain from their investment is clear." I would say the potential loss from their investment is equally clear. I'm not doom mongering I really want it to work but they are over commited.

Finally, a massive thanks to the contributors to this thread, i've learned a lot more about SEN than I ever have from it's owner, who have held to their "Jam Tomorrow" line since day 1.

[DC3 Dave]

You can certainly understand where flight mode is coming from. So he has a decision to make with regard to his investment. But from Stobart's point of view the die is cast. They have spent the money, now they HAVE to find a way to make their investment pay. The airport is there. They can't roll the runway up and take it away in one of their artics, or turn the terminal into a garden centre.

How long do they have to get enough cash rolling in to fulfill the potential they believe is there? Well, I don't have a clue. But I do believe that 2017 and 2018 will give us the answer.

[Harry Wayfarers]

The worst 'Debbie Downer' on this forum who gets a full ten out ten is wait for it, we know who is and his username begins with an H.

Stepping over something that a canine clearly left deposited on the sidewalk does one imagine that when ordering a 100 or few new shiny jets Stavros of EZY or O'Leaky of RYR simply waltz up to an ATM with their pin code memorised to make the appropriate withdrawal?

[flight_mode]

You're right DC3_Dave, they can't roll up the runway - because it doesn't belong to them. Joking aside, the die is certainly cast. They are commited. How much cash have they got? Lots is the answer. Stobart Group has substaintial cash in hand. They could keep SEN operating for many years to come. Whether institutional shareholders will consent to them burning millions on a airport and more dangerously an airline is another question.

[Barling Magna]

That's why these 11 new routes are so important......

[davidjohnson6]

Apologies if my memory isn't what it was, but wjat exactly is the set up around the airport owner and operator ? Are these 2 entirely separate companies with completely unrelated shareholders and controlled totally independently with very different beneficial owners ?
I'd always thought Stobart Group both owned the airport (albeit perhaps on a very long lease) and also operated the airport as well - is this correct ?
I'm just wondering what in theory would happen if in 2 years time, SEN is not making money and Stobart Group shareholders decide they have had enough - could the airport in theory be sold to another airport operator ?

[mikkie4]

EZY JET

EZY 5th anniversary at SEN, 4 MILLION+ PAX on 32,000+ FLIGHTS not bad , lets hope that EZY can see that SEN can be a viable airport to fly from Lets hope that the next 5 YRS can see better growth from EZY and other airlines