DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 6
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A different hotel to the one crewing told me...
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Just looked at travel in November Aberdeen to Durham and back. Only one option with Eastern on the Weds, all their other flights that day have "sold out" already, and they're £80 more expensive with 5kg less bags.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
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EK77WNCL....It could be termed perhaps an oxymoron...(ie contradictory to the point of foolishness) to view the words "hotting up" & "Teeside" in the same line!!...Apologies couldn`t resist..
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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NWI
2 x £13 APD 1 x £6 + 1 x £10 'facility fees' = £42 just for taxes on a round trip on the new service. The cheapest return fare by train (albeit with a railcard) is £37. Where's the margin for the airline in that lot?
Join Date: Mar 2013
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The train takes around 4 hours too, compared to about 45 minutes for a flight. As it is a business flight, I guess it depends on how much businesses value their employees time.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England, UK
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You would assume the airline will have done the maths and deemed the route to have suitable potential, then again I trusted Eastern to have done that with Bristol or BMIBaby to Knock...
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North East
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No but there was a mme-Bristol service for a while 10 years back. Think it had something to do with a mobile phone company if memory service me right.
Eastern did a Brussels but never got the timings right to compete with NCL or LBA. Ie. Late morning arrival into Brussels! Not conducive to the business traveller.
Eastern did a Brussels but never got the timings right to compete with NCL or LBA. Ie. Late morning arrival into Brussels! Not conducive to the business traveller.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Durham
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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NWI
My point was that at fares that would attract leisure passengers - £99'rtn. there's only £28 per sector in it for the airline even if there were nil charges from the airports. I really hope it works but the numbers look hard to me.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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[QUOTE=onion;9856637]No but there was a mme-Bristol service for a while 10 years back. Think it had something to do with a mobile phone company if memory service me right./QUOTE]
Most likely orange. They had call centre operations in both the North East and Bristol.
Most likely orange. They had call centre operations in both the North East and Bristol.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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I would also point out to toon22 that if any leisure passengers use the service contributing £28 per sector, that's a £28 bonus that wouldn't otherwise be earned. Possibly toon22 also doesn't realise it's likely that most pax on the Norwich sector will have come from Aberdeen, again the few pax that join at MME will be a bonus.
Still can't get my head around the excitement generated by this announcement?
The average monthly departing passenger total is around the 750 mark.
Rough maths say 20 working days per month..
Forget about the weekend schedules.
7 flights per day to Aberdeen gives a grand total of 5.3 joining passengers per flight...
Add in 8 possible weekend departures 2 each brings that total down to 5.06 passengers per flight.
Ok that's basic and there will be better(and worse) months,but my question is..which airline will pack in first and what happens if it's Eastern and Loganair are left.You would figure as with most airport start up airlines they are being charged peanuts,if anything for at least the first year.Eastern go and airport revenue becomes nil from what's left?
Where does that leave the airports revenue stream?
Interesting times..
The average monthly departing passenger total is around the 750 mark.
Rough maths say 20 working days per month..
Forget about the weekend schedules.
7 flights per day to Aberdeen gives a grand total of 5.3 joining passengers per flight...
Add in 8 possible weekend departures 2 each brings that total down to 5.06 passengers per flight.
Ok that's basic and there will be better(and worse) months,but my question is..which airline will pack in first and what happens if it's Eastern and Loganair are left.You would figure as with most airport start up airlines they are being charged peanuts,if anything for at least the first year.Eastern go and airport revenue becomes nil from what's left?
Where does that leave the airports revenue stream?
Interesting times..
Join Date: Aug 2014
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I'd also reiterate this isn't something to get too excited about, and it is not going to lead to a plethora of new routes. Talk of Belfast or Bristol or anywhere else is pointless, it's not going to happen.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Why not Bristol? EZY are generating 13 - 14k passengers month from NCL on a schedule that suits the airline not its passengers. 1 flight at 21.30 anyone?
My last word on NWI. Transit stops are a killer for profitability. By the time you take cycle costs on engines and landing gear, plus ATC and handling charges, the notion that any joining passengers at DTV on an ABZ - NWI service are a 'bonus' is just wrong. No, you need c.20 pax ABZ - DTV, 6 ABZ - NWI and the ABZ DTV passengers replaced by 15 - 20 DTV NWI pax, and then it starts to make sense.
My last word on NWI. Transit stops are a killer for profitability. By the time you take cycle costs on engines and landing gear, plus ATC and handling charges, the notion that any joining passengers at DTV on an ABZ - NWI service are a 'bonus' is just wrong. No, you need c.20 pax ABZ - DTV, 6 ABZ - NWI and the ABZ DTV passengers replaced by 15 - 20 DTV NWI pax, and then it starts to make sense.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE ENGLAND
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I've read all the posts & information as regards the Loganair venture & it seems to me to verge on insanity when looked upon as a stand up commercial operation in it's own right. There is nothing that I can see that makes this operation sustainable when working alongside Eastern, and I could see it struggling even if Eastern were to be forced out.
Back to basic's & you a have a small struggling airport with two routes the "thick" KLM AMS c.85% of traffic & "thin" Eastern ABZ c.11%.
The trend on the ABZ route has been downwards 53% drop in 2016 & clearly still struggling, given the plan (now redundant) to replace J41's with lower capacity J31's !
So along comes another operator prepared to give DTV a go ! & you say to yourself well done to them
until you read the detail of their proposal 
& the real & quite pathetic reason becomes apparent
ie to undermine Eastern’s operation.
Back to the proposal itself & the only positive, which provides any merit for this operation at all is that from Friday through to Sunday, Loganair are to fly one daily return ABZ – NWI via DTV , Dep ABZ 13.00 Arr NWI 15.20, Dep NWI 16.00 arr. ABZ 18.50. The relevance to DTV is that conveniently it is to call in en-route at DTV allowing pick up & drop off of pax both ways. This may in itself increase the DTV stats, dependent on through traffic, though I suspect little else.
Other than the above Eastern currently operate up to 3 daily returns ABZ – NWI direct, so what is going on ? has Eastern missed a trick, or possibly more likely, given their knowledge of the route and that of DTV where they have considerable presence, concluded it was not feasible for commercial or other reasons ?
Finally it would not be Pprune if the majority of posters to this thread had not gone off at a tangent & discussed alternates other than DTV – NWI , however as can be seen further destinations / expanding the network of operations from DTV are not necessarily on Loganair’s agenda at all, & if route growth was a consideration, then perhaps as mooted DTV would be well down the pecking order & indeed perhaps irrational when there are larger hubs less than 40 miles away pushing for similar growth.
Back to basic's & you a have a small struggling airport with two routes the "thick" KLM AMS c.85% of traffic & "thin" Eastern ABZ c.11%.
The trend on the ABZ route has been downwards 53% drop in 2016 & clearly still struggling, given the plan (now redundant) to replace J41's with lower capacity J31's !
So along comes another operator prepared to give DTV a go ! & you say to yourself well done to them
until you read the detail of their proposal & the real & quite pathetic reason becomes apparent ie to undermine Eastern’s operation.Back to the proposal itself & the only positive, which provides any merit for this operation at all is that from Friday through to Sunday, Loganair are to fly one daily return ABZ – NWI via DTV , Dep ABZ 13.00 Arr NWI 15.20, Dep NWI 16.00 arr. ABZ 18.50. The relevance to DTV is that conveniently it is to call in en-route at DTV allowing pick up & drop off of pax both ways. This may in itself increase the DTV stats, dependent on through traffic, though I suspect little else.
Other than the above Eastern currently operate up to 3 daily returns ABZ – NWI direct, so what is going on ? has Eastern missed a trick, or possibly more likely, given their knowledge of the route and that of DTV where they have considerable presence, concluded it was not feasible for commercial or other reasons ?
Finally it would not be Pprune if the majority of posters to this thread had not gone off at a tangent & discussed alternates other than DTV – NWI , however as can be seen further destinations / expanding the network of operations from DTV are not necessarily on Loganair’s agenda at all, & if route growth was a consideration, then perhaps as mooted DTV would be well down the pecking order & indeed perhaps irrational when there are larger hubs less than 40 miles away pushing for similar growth.