EDINBURGH - 2
alasdair1.
As has been mentioned many times in reply to your repeated questions, load factor means nothing! If you're selling 100% of seats for £1 each you're not going to be making a profit but the stats could look 'good'. On the other hand you could sell only 60% of seats but at a decent enough yield for the flight to be profitable. Turkey on the whole is in a downward spiral and I don't know many sane people thinking of going there for a holiday where the idea is to relax in safety and serenity. Only easyJet's commercial planning will know whether the route will continue next year although the trend would suggest that it's unlikely. Maybe email Neil Slaven and ask as that's the closest you'll get to an answer! Or just wait to see what is released.
Any chance you could refrain from asking on every single thread that has a slight link from now on - it's getting rather tedious.
As has been mentioned many times in reply to your repeated questions, load factor means nothing! If you're selling 100% of seats for £1 each you're not going to be making a profit but the stats could look 'good'. On the other hand you could sell only 60% of seats but at a decent enough yield for the flight to be profitable. Turkey on the whole is in a downward spiral and I don't know many sane people thinking of going there for a holiday where the idea is to relax in safety and serenity. Only easyJet's commercial planning will know whether the route will continue next year although the trend would suggest that it's unlikely. Maybe email Neil Slaven and ask as that's the closest you'll get to an answer! Or just wait to see what is released.
Any chance you could refrain from asking on every single thread that has a slight link from now on - it's getting rather tedious.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: clackmannan,scotland
Age: 33
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
Planedrive I appreciate your reply do you have a contact for neil
As you say sane people we have been in turkey when worse activities were happening ie the pkk attack in marmaris few years ago no one said a thing over here
We were ove in may and had no difficulties relaxing same to our freinds who are out at the min you could say the same about germany or france its a global issue not singled out on turkey the stats show good numbers not spiraling as you say ie edi is up 5% bodrum and 65% for dalaman im part of visit turgutreis based in the bodrum area which we are told is asbusy as ever with uk tourists
But thank you for your input and I feel I am sane and have a right under freedom of speeh legislations to ask for help which I have done
Alsi I am in contact with resort teams who are not reporting any tourist incident s alsothe distance from nr bodrum to kurdistan is ariund 37hrs by car.
Planedrive I appreciate your reply do you have a contact for neil
As you say sane people we have been in turkey when worse activities were happening ie the pkk attack in marmaris few years ago no one said a thing over here
We were ove in may and had no difficulties relaxing same to our freinds who are out at the min you could say the same about germany or france its a global issue not singled out on turkey the stats show good numbers not spiraling as you say ie edi is up 5% bodrum and 65% for dalaman im part of visit turgutreis based in the bodrum area which we are told is asbusy as ever with uk tourists
But thank you for your input and I feel I am sane and have a right under freedom of speeh legislations to ask for help which I have done
Alsi I am in contact with resort teams who are not reporting any tourist incident s alsothe distance from nr bodrum to kurdistan is ariund 37hrs by car.
"freedom of speeh legislations" (sic) possibly, but perhaps not on punctuation, grammar and freedom of spelling rules!
Or don't they matter anymore?
Or don't they matter anymore?
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Age: 53
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Barring the slower month of May for ME carriers the load factors for both QR and EY are dire for the CAA month of May compared with other UK similar routes. Barely half full- surely that cant be right? im guessing there will be a few alarm bells. I always wondered why the fares were so cheap.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I take it you haven't bothered to look at figures elsewhere before you started trying to throw shade on the EDI figures as per usual?
Here's a few rough regional comparisons for May (traditionally one of, if not the, quietest months for UK-Mid East routes btw):
EDI EY 54%
EDI QR 53%
NCL EK 54%
MAN EY 62%
MAN QR 51%
MAN EK 72%
BHX QR 59%
BHX EK 49%
(feel free to point out any inaccuracies as some of the config variations make it awkward)
Can't comment on GLA EK as unfortunately, despite the fact the figures are 2 months late, GLA has somehow still failed to report. Last May it recorded a 66% LF though. I'd imagine this year it will have fallen a couple points but still be in that ballpark.
Direct comparisons are pointless as each market/capacity is different. But if you view the load factors in isolation then it looks to me like EDI is following the general trend and is certainly not "dire" compared to the rest of the UK as you tried to claim. MAN EK being the notable exception.
That being said, the fact QR was down 1% is disappointing as it's a route that should still be looking for consistent growth even with the competition IMO.
Here's a few rough regional comparisons for May (traditionally one of, if not the, quietest months for UK-Mid East routes btw):
EDI EY 54%
EDI QR 53%
NCL EK 54%
MAN EY 62%
MAN QR 51%
MAN EK 72%
BHX QR 59%
BHX EK 49%
(feel free to point out any inaccuracies as some of the config variations make it awkward)
Can't comment on GLA EK as unfortunately, despite the fact the figures are 2 months late, GLA has somehow still failed to report. Last May it recorded a 66% LF though. I'd imagine this year it will have fallen a couple points but still be in that ballpark.
Direct comparisons are pointless as each market/capacity is different. But if you view the load factors in isolation then it looks to me like EDI is following the general trend and is certainly not "dire" compared to the rest of the UK as you tried to claim. MAN EK being the notable exception.
That being said, the fact QR was down 1% is disappointing as it's a route that should still be looking for consistent growth even with the competition IMO.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 60
Posts: 3,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BHX EK
GoEDI
Fairly similar to what I posted on the Newcastle thread but as you say the various configs make it difficult. BHX had a couple 354 seat 77W's several 360 seat 77W's and a couple of 517 seat A380's making it around 51%.
As I have said on the Newcastle thread I am not sure why these are worse than 2015 (like for like) but very disappointing. I wonder if they are slightly out as they are only provisional. The BHX DXB was a shock considering the number of extra seats compared to 2015.
Pete
Fairly similar to what I posted on the Newcastle thread but as you say the various configs make it difficult. BHX had a couple 354 seat 77W's several 360 seat 77W's and a couple of 517 seat A380's making it around 51%.
As I have said on the Newcastle thread I am not sure why these are worse than 2015 (like for like) but very disappointing. I wonder if they are slightly out as they are only provisional. The BHX DXB was a shock considering the number of extra seats compared to 2015.
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 22nd Aug 2016 at 21:57. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I take it you haven't bothered to look at figures elsewhere before you started trying to throw shade on the EDI figures as per usual?
Here's a few rough regional comparisons for May (traditionally one of, if not the, quietest months for UK-Mid East routes btw):
EDI EY 54%
EDI QR 53%
NCL EK 54%
MAN EY 62%
MAN QR 51%
MAN EK 72%
BHX QR 59%
BHX EK 49%
(feel free to point out any inaccuracies as some of the config variations make it awkward)
Can't comment on GLA EK as unfortunately, despite the fact the figures are 2 months late, GLA has somehow still failed to report. Last May it recorded a 66% LF though. I'd imagine this year it will have fallen a couple points but still be in that ballpark.
Direct comparisons are pointless as each market/capacity is different. But if you view the load factors in isolation then it looks to me like EDI is following the general trend and is certainly not "dire" compared to the rest of the UK as you tried to claim. MAN EK being the notable exception.
That being said, the fact QR was down 1% is disappointing as it's a route that should still be looking for consistent growth even with the competition IMO.
Here's a few rough regional comparisons for May (traditionally one of, if not the, quietest months for UK-Mid East routes btw):
EDI EY 54%
EDI QR 53%
NCL EK 54%
MAN EY 62%
MAN QR 51%
MAN EK 72%
BHX QR 59%
BHX EK 49%
(feel free to point out any inaccuracies as some of the config variations make it awkward)
Can't comment on GLA EK as unfortunately, despite the fact the figures are 2 months late, GLA has somehow still failed to report. Last May it recorded a 66% LF though. I'd imagine this year it will have fallen a couple points but still be in that ballpark.
Direct comparisons are pointless as each market/capacity is different. But if you view the load factors in isolation then it looks to me like EDI is following the general trend and is certainly not "dire" compared to the rest of the UK as you tried to claim. MAN EK being the notable exception.
That being said, the fact QR was down 1% is disappointing as it's a route that should still be looking for consistent growth even with the competition IMO.
The EDI ME routes are indeed in line with equivalent routes across the UK. They will be slow burners though but QR, EY and EK have already shown that they are willing to grow routes slowly and surely.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh come on, commercial analysis has no place with Qatar and Etihad. Both are government projects solely to increase the profile of their respective territories. Emirates is at least a more commercial animal (see BHX losing the A380) but Etihad and Qatar are not commercial projects. Load factor? Yeah, it'll be fine.
Cue posts about "showing faith in regional flying by not pulling out due to poor loads".
Translates as : "We've got so much money behind us it doesn't matter".
Cue posts about "showing faith in regional flying by not pulling out due to poor loads".
Translates as : "We've got so much money behind us it doesn't matter".
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't they all been posting their financial accounts lately? Here's the Qatar one:
http://www.qatarairways.com/iwov-resources/temp-docs/qatarairways_group_annual_report_fiscal_2016.pdf
Let's also not forget that EY adjust their schedule at EDI to 5 flights during the winter rather than daily so they too operate on a commercial basis.
http://www.qatarairways.com/iwov-resources/temp-docs/qatarairways_group_annual_report_fiscal_2016.pdf
Let's also not forget that EY adjust their schedule at EDI to 5 flights during the winter rather than daily so they too operate on a commercial basis.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 60
Posts: 3,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Middle East
SOE
You might want to check GDS re EK37/8 at from April 17 onwards - it was a system error so I have been told.
A350Saltire
In line with other UK airports pax wise but what about yield?
Qatar at BHX have certainly offered incredibly cheap fares (reinforcing SOE's post) although Emirates seem to have been less generous (again reinforcing SOE's post).
Not that I am saying Qatar at EDI have been giving away fares but at BHX it is all about market-share and Qatar have held their own but making money I doubt. I am still not a 100% convinced of the accuracy of these figures but we will find out eventually.
Pete
You might want to check GDS re EK37/8 at from April 17 onwards - it was a system error so I have been told.
A350Saltire
In line with other UK airports pax wise but what about yield?
Qatar at BHX have certainly offered incredibly cheap fares (reinforcing SOE's post) although Emirates seem to have been less generous (again reinforcing SOE's post).
Not that I am saying Qatar at EDI have been giving away fares but at BHX it is all about market-share and Qatar have held their own but making money I doubt. I am still not a 100% convinced of the accuracy of these figures but we will find out eventually.
Pete
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In line with other UK airports pax wise but what about yield?
Qatar at BHX have certainly offered incredibly cheap fares (reinforcing SOE's post) although Emirates seem to have been less generous (again reinforcing SOE's post).
Not that I am saying Qatar at EDI have been giving away fares but at BHX it is all about market-share and Qatar have held their own but making money I doubt. I am still not a 100% convinced of the accuracy of these figures but we will find out eventually.
Pete
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
isnt it often only 60-70% even in the 'best' months though? which is below industry standard and outwith other UK ME routes. I wonder if there should be a cut in frequency, although people tend to demand daily year round nowadays.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On another subject, the Wow service to KEF is going to year round with 3 per week from November due to "impressive sales".
http://www.scotsman.com/news/wow-extends-edinburgh-reykjavik-flights-year-round-1-4210602
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No point in trying to comment on yield it's too complex and something we are not privy to. Yes the base fares are low in some cases but how many seats are actually available at the base price... There are other factors to consider such as biz class loads, higher yielding eco pax such as those on flexible tickets etc, cargo loads...
They normally run around 80% (give or take a couple %) in the busier months. QR have already upgraded their frequency from 5x weekly at launch up to daily now.
I think what we're really seeing is EY and QR struggling to compete UK wide with the powerhouse that is EK and DXB. Neither have the draw of DXB to bump up O&D demand like EK do either. EY can tap into that slightly being UAE based, but QR are really on the back foot in that regard and that shows in their market share.
isnt it often only 60-70% even in the 'best' months though?
I think what we're really seeing is EY and QR struggling to compete UK wide with the powerhouse that is EK and DXB. Neither have the draw of DXB to bump up O&D demand like EK do either. EY can tap into that slightly being UAE based, but QR are really on the back foot in that regard and that shows in their market share.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All correct but none of it matters in the slightest.
I don't imagine Etihad or Qatar will give up at EDI, it's not what they do.
Qatar is trying to buy kudos and credibility on the world stage, that's why QR exists, that's why they (allegedly) bought the World Cup.
Low commercial load factors are secondary to having that big old goat faced tailfin flying and being seen.
I don't imagine Etihad or Qatar will give up at EDI, it's not what they do.
Qatar is trying to buy kudos and credibility on the world stage, that's why QR exists, that's why they (allegedly) bought the World Cup.
Low commercial load factors are secondary to having that big old goat faced tailfin flying and being seen.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Usually in a bar!
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those not familiar with how it works in the part of the world where the 3 big guys play, it's one great big member waving excercise.
Logic doesn't always come in to it.
Logic doesn't always come in to it.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having had to recently buy a reasonably last minute ticket ALA-AUH-EDI, I noticed that EY's fares were pretty cheap and stable even up to the evening before the flight - only varying by (literally) a couple of £ from buying in advance.
On a side note, after I booked my ticket I discovered that EY are stopping the ALA and LCA routes from October - and blaming competition - which certainly doesn't fit with their "not caring about profits" image discussed here.
XSB
On a side note, after I booked my ticket I discovered that EY are stopping the ALA and LCA routes from October - and blaming competition - which certainly doesn't fit with their "not caring about profits" image discussed here.
XSB
