A380

[wetwing]

Doric to sign for the twenty A380's by the year end I have read.They want eleven abreast seating by raising the main cabin floor,how much time ,design and manufacturing is required for such a modification?Airbus made a mistake building the A380, they said at the time it was to complete their family of aircraft,to end the monoply of 747.They said hub to hub was the way of future travel,Boeing said point to point.The 787 sales are the answer point to point.So Airbus had to build the A350 a plane they said was not required hub to hub = A380. Airbus has had its first big sale in Japan with the A350,not the 380.So for now Airbus have 2015 delivery slots open,and you need to be cutting metal soon for 2015 delivery to customers or you have a white tail coming off the line at Toulouse.

[DaveReidUK]

They want eleven abreast seating by raising the main cabin floor, how much time, design and manufacturing is required for such a modification?

With tickets only for sale to dwarfs, presumably.

[Logohu]

Surely it would be cheaper and easier to just put narrower seats and narrower aisles onto the A380 main deck to fit the extra (11th) row in ? Similar to what Emirates have done with their 777s to squeeze 10 abreast seating in, while most other operators have 9 abreast. Don't think I'd want to be doing a long flight in one though

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by wetwing

Doric to sign for the twenty A380's by the year end I have read.They want eleven abreast seating by raising the main cabin floor

Of course Airbus is not going to redesign the aircraft structure. Surely you just fit seats that are higher above the floor, to benefit from the wider cross-section, and/or carve out an armrest in the sidewall panel to save another couple of inches?

[Jes]

Airlines, Airports & Routes: Topics about airports, routes and airline business

[DaveReidUK]

Surely you just fit seats that are higher above the floor, to benefit from the wider cross-section

I'd say that the ability (which one currently takes for granted) to put your feet on the floor when seated would come pretty high up the list of passenger comfort priorities. Putting seats on longer legs would also have implications for their crashworthiness. And of course there is still the problem of having to remove, or greatly reduce the height of, the overhead bins so that you don't bang your head every time you stand up.

and/or carve out an armrest in the sidewall panel to save another couple of inches?

That's probably a non-starter too. Even if there was a suitable void in the sidewall to allow this, your extra "couple of inches" wouldn't be nearly enough to accommodate 11-abreast seats unless they were ridiculously narrow.

[SOPS]

Interesting thread just posted in Middle East, with a link to an interview with TC, saying that Emirates are looking at 11 across on the A380.

[DaveReidUK]

Ah, TC means the "1950s standard 17 inch seat", as Airbus described it in an ad only a couple of weeks ago:

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

I'd say that the ability (which one currently takes for granted) to put your feet on the floor when seated would come pretty high up the list of passenger comfort priorities. Putting seats on longer legs would also have implications for their crashworthiness. And of course there is still the problem of having to remove, or greatly reduce the height of, the overhead bins so that you don't bang your head every time you stand up.

That's probably a non-starter too. Even if there was a suitable void in the sidewall to allow this, your extra "couple of inches" wouldn't be nearly enough to accommodate 11-abreast seats unless they were ridiculously narrow.

Fair enough, Dave, but what do you reckon the Doric CEO is suggesting, then? One might assume that if he is signing off on multi-billion-dollar orders he has some basic idea how much of a non-starter a structural redesign would be.

[DaveReidUK]

Fair enough, Dave, but what do you reckon the Doric CEO is suggesting, then?

That's easy, he's suggesting putting 11-abreast in an A380.

And, as befits a CEO, he's the ideas guy and isn't about to get bogged down in the boring practical details ...

One might assume that if he is signing off on multi-billion-dollar orders he has some basic idea how much of a non-starter a structural redesign would be.

One might well assume that.

However, having worked for an aircraft manufacturer, I can assure you that prospective customers are forever coming up with all sorts of proposals for changing the spec, without which there isn't going to be a deal.

They almost always end up either walking away or buying the aircraft in its standard configuration.

[skyluxe]

A380 - 11 abreast 18.5in seat width is available

I agree with DR-UK that a lot of 'blue sky thinking' goes on with little to show afterwards.

However, Thompson seating do have a viable 18.5in wide seat unit allowing 11 abreast A380 main deck fit available. The format is a little different, but I can vouch that it is extremely comfortable. It has been shown at the interiors shows for a couple of years over its development cycle and the guys involved are extremely capable.

A380 LOPA on their website indicates 511 pax at 31in pitch Main Deck only - 679 both decks in 3 class J/PY/Y.

Structurally the design is bound to be a bit heavier than the normal straight spar units.

However, the potential additional revenue in extra pax uplift is enormous, particularly where the aircraft is operating well within its design range parameters as A380's will be a lot of the of the time.

It's just a question of using the available space as efficiently as possible!

PS I am not connected with Thompson, though I will admit to having worked with many of the team there in the distant past!

[Granada]

I think there is room for both hub to hub and point to point. Several airlines have gone on record to say that they are only interested in operating into Heathrow, and other airports like Gatwick and Luton are not of interest. There will always be the 'prestige' airports.

Every aircraft has purple patches - the 747 only sold 7 a/c in 1971 (a few years after launch) while it only managed 2 a/c in 1993. Peaks and troughs for VLAs are not unusual.

I wouldn't expect many whitetails any time soon in Toulouse. The numbers of people flying are increasing, not the reverse.

[DaveReidUK]

However, Thompson seating do have a viable 18.5in wide seat unit allowing 11 abreast A380 main deck fit available. The format is a little different

We're clearly talking about some serious Tardis technology here.

The A380 main cabin at its widest is 6.54m (257.5"), rather less at the seat squab height.

I'd be fascinated to see how 11-abreast 18.5" seats, plus armrests (14 of them) and two aisles can possibly fit in the available width.

[Dairyground]

Would an increase in length, rather that raising the floor to get in more pax have better economics? Viewed alongside a 747-400, the current A380 models look rather short, with an aspect ratio more like a 747SP.

[Groundloop]

Would an increase in length, rather that raising the floor to get in more pax have better economics? Viewed alongside a 747-400, the current A380 models look rather short, with an aspect ratio more like a 747SP.

Fuselage length against wing span does not mean anything. The wing span/area is a requirement of the aircraft's mass - not length. The A380 has a higher mass than the 747.

However, Airbus do have tentative plans to stretch the A380-800 to an A380-900 (but not yet).

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Airbus has had its first big sale in Japan with the A350,not the 380.

Errrrrm.......

Skymark Airlines increases A380s orders to six as part of ambitious growth plans | CAPA - Centre for Aviation


A380 Captains - Skymark Airlines (Japan) with WASINC International | 1401373903

[wetwing]

skymark airlines,Trying to raise funding for purchase of six A380's.Yes you are correct a Japanese low cost carrier placed an order for the aircraft. But as first delivery is due in first quarter of 2014,there is still no finance in place to purchase. The first one for Skymark airlines would be well down the assembly line at Toulouse or Hamburg.As I stated the first BIG break for Airbus was with the A350 with Japan airlines a huge blow to Boeing.The same thing is repeating its self at Toulouse with the A350 as did at Boeing with the 787 amazing order numbers for the A350,not one sale of single A380 this year so far, and three cancellations from Lufthansa.

[Una Due Tfc]

It always surprised me that JAL or ANA havn't ordered A380s given the pax volume on domestic routes. Long history of 747s and DC10s being used domestically and to South Korea

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

We're clearly talking about some serious Tardis technology here.

The A380 main cabin at its widest is 6.54m (257.5"), rather less at the seat squab height.

I'd be fascinated to see how 11-abreast 18.5" seats, plus armrests (14 of them) and two aisles can possibly fit in the available width.

Dave, I appreciate that cynicism is your default option, but in this case there is a fairly simple cure for your fascination. As skyluxe said, you will indeed find the A380 LOPA here.

He/she did mention that the format is a little different (staggered armrests), and I for one find it quite clever.

[DaveReidUK]

Dave, I appreciate that cynicism is your default option, but in this case there is a fairly simple cure for your fascination. As skyluxe said, you will indeed find the A380 LOPA here.

Well in this case my cynicism would appear to be justified and my arithmetic vindicated.

The A380 seat plan in your link does indeed purport to show 11-abreast, 18.5 inch "Cozy Suite" seating, but the accompanying video

http://test.thompsonaero.com/uploads...esentation.mov

shows that the seats in question are only 17.8" wide between armrests (the critical dimension).

I rest my case.