Norwegian Air Shuttle
A W pattern LGW-FLL-MAN-FLL-LGW for winter & a summer LGW-BOS-MAN-BOS-LGW might have been more interesting than the competitive NYC destination & it's a long way to LAX on a thin margin.
Like somebody says, take the APD out of the fares & there's not much left.
Like somebody says, take the APD out of the fares & there's not much left.
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A couple of replies to previous posts
First re Norwegian profitability, well it's a public company with a very open reporting culture 3/4 figures out on the 24th judge for yourself
Second connecting traffic, NAS already sell through tickets on most of their net work, so feed to long haul is a no brainier
Third only part of Summer 2014 is on sale at present, many of the Summer Canary Isle routes have to be loaded like wise Spain to LPA/TFS from Jan
Finally it's not long since some were asking if Norwegian would be Aer Lingus v.2 at LGW? Well with 320 flights a week I think we know the answer to that now.
I have no idea if long haul will work from LGW but I wouldn't bet against it. All I would say is if you haven't flown with Norwegian, then try them then comment, I would rank them ahead of BA economy short haul and on par with Swiss, it's ahead of EasyJet in terms of product and a on time performance at LGW that must be very embarrassing for Monarch management
First re Norwegian profitability, well it's a public company with a very open reporting culture 3/4 figures out on the 24th judge for yourself
Second connecting traffic, NAS already sell through tickets on most of their net work, so feed to long haul is a no brainier
Third only part of Summer 2014 is on sale at present, many of the Summer Canary Isle routes have to be loaded like wise Spain to LPA/TFS from Jan
Finally it's not long since some were asking if Norwegian would be Aer Lingus v.2 at LGW? Well with 320 flights a week I think we know the answer to that now.
I have no idea if long haul will work from LGW but I wouldn't bet against it. All I would say is if you haven't flown with Norwegian, then try them then comment, I would rank them ahead of BA economy short haul and on par with Swiss, it's ahead of EasyJet in terms of product and a on time performance at LGW that must be very embarrassing for Monarch management
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Where are the flight deck and cabin crew coming from for this operation? With a view to understanding how a company can have some major new cutting edge assets and apply them profitably on a cuthroat route at loss leader prices.
What's the secret?
What's the secret?
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 17th Oct 2013 at 22:30.
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LNIDA, I think you are a bit too over optimistic to say Norwegian is on par with Swiss.
The cockpit crew need to have a passport from one of the EEA countries, and since Norwegian are going to let Virgin Atlantic pilots train with them I guess you will also find Brits in the sharp end. I don't know where the cabin crew comes from, but I have heard rumours about cabin crew from the UK been recruited. We have to wait and see to get confirmation in July next year.
One of the secrets is Skipness One Echo: Norwegian have a tiny administration.
The cockpit crew need to have a passport from one of the EEA countries, and since Norwegian are going to let Virgin Atlantic pilots train with them I guess you will also find Brits in the sharp end. I don't know where the cabin crew comes from, but I have heard rumours about cabin crew from the UK been recruited. We have to wait and see to get confirmation in July next year.
One of the secrets is Skipness One Echo: Norwegian have a tiny administration.
Last edited by LN-KGL; 17th Oct 2013 at 22:58.
Paxing All Over The World
Since Laker closed 31 year ago, a VERY great deal has happened and we all know what those points are. (Newbies do feel free to ask 
)
NAS are not just looking to make LGW to the USA but to collect pax from their various points around Europe too. They hope to get pax that see connecting at LGW as better than elsewhere in Europe. We might look at this as just LGW but it's clearly not.
I am slightly bemused by the anti-LGW tone of some, when it is very popular with those that live in Sussex, Kent, South/South East London and so on. I don't use it much only because I have lived in Hertfordshire and North + West London for 34 years.
I have used NAS with great pleasure and would certainly consider them for a trip of this kind if going in Y.
As to pricing we all know that it depends on:
)NAS are not just looking to make LGW to the USA but to collect pax from their various points around Europe too. They hope to get pax that see connecting at LGW as better than elsewhere in Europe. We might look at this as just LGW but it's clearly not.
I am slightly bemused by the anti-LGW tone of some, when it is very popular with those that live in Sussex, Kent, South/South East London and so on. I don't use it much only because I have lived in Hertfordshire and North + West London for 34 years.
I have used NAS with great pleasure and would certainly consider them for a trip of this kind if going in Y.
As to pricing we all know that it depends on:
- How far in advance you can/do book
- How flexible you can be in your time of flight
- Where you live
- Your final destination in the USA
- Your preferences for food/entertainment/etc
- Independently minded or just take what the agent suggests
- Know where to find all the options (like posters of this forum) or not
- Travelling light or kitchen sink
- etc.
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Be realistic there will be next to no connecting pax from DY"s own network from LGW. All Northern Europe routes will feel DY service from OSL, ARN, CPH and not LGW while there other routes are purely focused for us Brits going to the sun. Do I see passenger coming across Europe on other carriers to connect, not at all. These long hail routes at LGW will purely focus on British people looking for a cheaper option to the US which will either work for DY or won't. It's hard to say which way it will go but hope they do well.
A side question where are all these extra LGW slots coming from?
Be realistic there will be next to no connecting pax from DY"s own network from LGW. All Northern Europe routes will feel DY service from OSL, ARN, CPH and not LGW while there other routes are purely focused for us Brits going to the sun. Do I see passenger coming across Europe on other carriers to connect, not at all. These long hail routes at LGW will purely focus on British people looking for a cheaper option to the US which will either work for DY or won't. It's hard to say which way it will go but hope they do well.
A side question where are all these extra LGW slots coming from?
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I guess given time & assuming these flights do well, we'll eventually see more of their 787 fleet at LGW?
Flights to LAX & NYC could eventually go at least daily & FLL could also increase; I wonder also what other routes could be added in future - Boston or Washington perhaps or maybe even Asia routes such as Bangkok?
Flights to LAX & NYC could eventually go at least daily & FLL could also increase; I wonder also what other routes could be added in future - Boston or Washington perhaps or maybe even Asia routes such as Bangkok?
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This gets more odd as it goes on. Bjorn tells us that he expects people to "self connect" into Gatwick from throughout Europe.
The Norwegian network into Gatwick will have people coming in only from Scandinavia and Mediteranean sun spots, so presumably Bjorn's "self connection" will mean most of his target market having to usie rival airlines to connect into Gatwick. Is he serious?
Just how good does the fare from Gatwick to LA have to be to absorb the cost of a "self connecting" flight, before we even consider the extra time and inconvenience of the connecting flight?
The Norwegian network into Gatwick will have people coming in only from Scandinavia and Mediteranean sun spots, so presumably Bjorn's "self connection" will mean most of his target market having to usie rival airlines to connect into Gatwick. Is he serious?
Just how good does the fare from Gatwick to LA have to be to absorb the cost of a "self connecting" flight, before we even consider the extra time and inconvenience of the connecting flight?
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Loss leader fares no doubt supported by nice legitimate incentives by Gatwick?
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Turbo Tom
You've got it in one, it is NAS policy when entering a new market to go very aggressive on price, to get the name known and people to try Norwegian, research show that once people have tried Norwegian they tend to come back and fly again, that in turn allows them to gain pricing traction.
LN-KGL
I think the comparison with SWISS is valid : both operate new aircraft, the flip down IFE screens are the same, even show the same Mr Bean sketch's with SWISS (in economy) you get a free soft drink or tea/coffee and a small tart, with NAS you pay for those, but you get free Wifi, the Reccaro seats are the same. Leg room is equal, with only 186 seats on NAS rather than the standard 189 config.
I think there is little doubt that Norwegians rapid growth at LGW & elsewhere will have made Ryanair & others look again at service levels.
Will long haul work out of LGW? I have no idea, but comparison with eos & maxjet mean nothing and a lot has changed since Freddie Laker's days, time will tell...
LN-KGL
I think the comparison with SWISS is valid : both operate new aircraft, the flip down IFE screens are the same, even show the same Mr Bean sketch's with SWISS (in economy) you get a free soft drink or tea/coffee and a small tart, with NAS you pay for those, but you get free Wifi, the Reccaro seats are the same. Leg room is equal, with only 186 seats on NAS rather than the standard 189 config.
I think there is little doubt that Norwegians rapid growth at LGW & elsewhere will have made Ryanair & others look again at service levels.
Will long haul work out of LGW? I have no idea, but comparison with eos & maxjet mean nothing and a lot has changed since Freddie Laker's days, time will tell...
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interesting reactions
Isn't this what the Dreamliner was supposed to be partly about? Both reducing cost per seat and increasing range at that aircraft size level so changing the opportunities for point to point.
I've always thought LGW was better located than LHR for a big wedge of SE and S London as well as Sussex and Kent, several million people in a relatively prosperous bit of real estate . Croydon to Heathrow is quite a schlepp. What proportion of economy traffic wants frequency and flexibility? Where's the trade off? Obviously the model assumes they can operate the equipment reliably.
By the way, don't confuse the lead in fares with the average. If the tariff is anything like the NAS European tariff it will soon bump up from £179. But there's still some headroom. And it is a nice plane if it works.
My hunch is NYC and FLL will do well but LAX won't, not enough consistent year round traffic from the target demographic. We shall see.
I've always thought LGW was better located than LHR for a big wedge of SE and S London as well as Sussex and Kent, several million people in a relatively prosperous bit of real estate . Croydon to Heathrow is quite a schlepp. What proportion of economy traffic wants frequency and flexibility? Where's the trade off? Obviously the model assumes they can operate the equipment reliably.
By the way, don't confuse the lead in fares with the average. If the tariff is anything like the NAS European tariff it will soon bump up from £179. But there's still some headroom. And it is a nice plane if it works.
My hunch is NYC and FLL will do well but LAX won't, not enough consistent year round traffic from the target demographic. We shall see.
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Anyone comment on the rumoured new base at MAD in the summer, they will have a nice advantage over other carriers with lower charges as they are new and it's growth.
Last edited by j636; 18th Oct 2013 at 11:18.
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I keep reading that the B787s will be crewed from BKK or SIN. (no, really). Can someone confirm that UK based pilots and cabin will be flying the new long hauls?
LNIDA?
LNIDA?
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 18th Oct 2013 at 14:02.
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LNIDA
Once further established they might cause EZY to look at service but not, I think, RYR.
The only thing that affects RYR is money and they are competing in a very different market and style.
I think there is little doubt that Norwegians rapid growth at LGW & elsewhere will have made Ryanair & others look again at service levels.
The only thing that affects RYR is money and they are competing in a very different market and style.
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J636
Both MAD & BCN are I gather now listed on internal crew base bidding system, but subject to final board approval, would be very surprised if it didn't happen and I would guess will be confirmed for next weeks investor presentation
LGW LPA/TFS no on sale for Summer 2014
LGW LPA/TFS no on sale for Summer 2014
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We'll see. As I said its a huge risk and with their massive levels of debt, NAS require EZY and RYR levels of return. Competing with the others for a tiny piece of the cake across the Atlantic is very brave indeed. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts about why others have failed. I hope it works.... We'll see.