Little Red -anything innovative? (merged)
Why couldn't Virgin get their own 320's? Is there a shortage of frames? Or maybe they are testing the domestic waters to see if the routes will make them money. If they don't my guess is the slots will be transferred to their long haul ops.
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The only slots that can be transferred to L/H ops are the MAN slots as these were all VS slots originally. Any EDI/ABZ slots can not be swapped to L/H after one year or three years. They can only be used for ABZ/EDI/NCE/CAI/RUH. This seems to be a common misconception on many different forums.
Paxing All Over The World
crewmeal
It's about time to market and cost then, also, about testing the market.
If they decided to acquire their own airframes, the lead time would be longer so they will lease them from someone else. They have obviously struck a deal with EI but might have done a deal with any carrier or leasing agent anywhere in the workd that had the right machines available for the time and price wanted. Those machines might have had any of a 100 different airline colours on them - or be plain white.
The flights will be Virgin Little Red, operated by someone else - just as, if you fly British Airways internally in South Africa, the machines are owned and operated by Comair for BA. In both cases, the responsibiity for everything lies with VS or BA as the case may be.
If things go well, they might well purchase their own machines, or they might buy the ones of EI - it does not matter. The colour of the paint on the outside does not always belong to the name painted alongside.
You might send a parcel by Royal Mail but they might sub-contract another company to transport the parcel part/all of the way. If there is a problem - then R.M. have to sort it. [pun intended
]
Why couldn't Virgin get their own 320's?
If they decided to acquire their own airframes, the lead time would be longer so they will lease them from someone else. They have obviously struck a deal with EI but might have done a deal with any carrier or leasing agent anywhere in the workd that had the right machines available for the time and price wanted. Those machines might have had any of a 100 different airline colours on them - or be plain white.
The flights will be Virgin Little Red, operated by someone else - just as, if you fly British Airways internally in South Africa, the machines are owned and operated by Comair for BA. In both cases, the responsibiity for everything lies with VS or BA as the case may be.
If things go well, they might well purchase their own machines, or they might buy the ones of EI - it does not matter. The colour of the paint on the outside does not always belong to the name painted alongside.
You might send a parcel by Royal Mail but they might sub-contract another company to transport the parcel part/all of the way. If there is a problem - then R.M. have to sort it. [pun intended
]
Last edited by PAXboy; 3rd Apr 2013 at 08:28. Reason: missed vital fact
PAXboy
Interestingly Aer Lingus didn't have enough A320 aircraft so they had to get 2 from Italy I-EEZF and I-EEZG. Previously operated by Meridiana, neither of these two 'frames have ever worn Aer Lingus "green".......
You're flying on Comair - an independent local operator flying as a franchisee - like SUN-AIR in Denmark.
If they decided to acquire their own airframes, the lead time would be longer so they will lease them from someone else.
if you fly British Airways internally in South Africa
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VS, at the moment, don't have the mindset or expertise to operate short haul. That's why they hired EI to run this operation for them. EI are one of the few legacy operators to make money out of a non-loco service.
Only time will tell if VS have a real ambition to become a short haul operator.
Only time will tell if VS have a real ambition to become a short haul operator.
Paxing All Over The World
ETOPS
Of course you are!!!! That was exactly what I was planning on typing! Thanks for pointing it out, I've corrected my post. 
As for EI getting airframes from somewhere else? That's the wonderful world of airframe leasing and ownership at work.
You're flying on Comair
As for EI getting airframes from somewhere else? That's the wonderful world of airframe leasing and ownership at work.
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Presumably the punters that this service is attracting are some who previously took the train from Euston to Man? Great, virgin are competing with the west coast main line,.....err hang on though, the franchise of which is held by Virgin for another 2 years. So all that is happening surely is that the punters, and any profits are just being shuffled around?? Not a bad thing i suppose but it still seems a strange business model.
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The service is actually aimed at long-haul connecting traffic, primarily for Virgin Atlantic themselves. BMI had feeder agreements with many LHR operators which did not want to be dependent on BA for connections, so expect Virgin to target this market segment too. Whilst the Virgin Atlantic service is available for London - Manchester point-to-point bookings, these will just be viewed as icing on the cake. Hence the business model does make sense.
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Little Red ...the future
With the current state of affairs down at Exeter International, does anyone think SRB might be interested in a punt at BE? ...or at least some of the routes or perhaps it's entire UK operation?
BMI had feeder agreements with many LHR operators which did not want to be dependent on BA for connections
Romantic lighting included!
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What are peoples predictions with Little Red? I believe they need to branch out their short-haul offerings but obviously are severely constrained by slots at London/Heathrow. Hearing a lot about people saying It will be gone by next year, I'm not so sure. They're product looks seriously good up against BA the only let down in my eyes the lack of frequency on routes. Also I'm still surprised Virgin aren't codesharing with Aer Lingus on the Dublin routes or the Ireland operation in general.
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I would assume that the extant code sharing agreement between EI and BA on the EI LHR-SNN/ORK routes is a bit of a block to EI/VS code sharing in full. However, I suppose this might get reviewed if EI and VS 'stay in bed' with each other longer term.
Last edited by Steviec9; 6th Apr 2013 at 07:43.
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Are fares from ABZ/EDI/MAN on Little Red common rated with those
from Heathrow on connecting VS flights? Apologies if this has been discussed before.
from Heathrow on connecting VS flights? Apologies if this has been discussed before.
Last edited by Joe Curry; 10th Apr 2013 at 10:13. Reason: Additional text.
Serves them right for not including Glasgow. I know BMI didn't do very well from GLA (well according to them anyway) but think VS could have served GLA as well as ABZ and EDI. There must be lots of connecting traffic possibilities that are still going to BA.
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I have to say I think you're right. I cannot see MAN working and if they had opted for GLA they would have had a nice, comprehensive Scottish operation with a clear message, more cost effective advertising, etc.
I cannot see MAN working
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So why shouldn't MAN work? The airport serves a densely populated and economically vital catchment area from which VIR will draw connecting passengers onto its long-haul network. The VIR domestic service will also be offered to other carriers requiring LHR feed which do not wish to rely on direct competitor BA for connections. Whilst there is certainly a case for GLA, it is wishful thinking on your part to presume the city a better choice than MAN.