BIRMINGHAM - 6

[tubby linton]

Aircraft have been diverting tonight due to fog. The resumption of LVP capability on both runways ends cannot come soon enough.

[Guest 112233]

Tubby L

I just had a deco - in FR24 -Also looking at the METARs's on line

It was 3 Kt from the south with scattered at 600 AGL but at 100 scattered. Is 15 CAT I/11 ! Only.A KLM flight managed an approach & landing. The rest utilized the various selection of holds inc DTY VOR at FL160 or above.

Things for the last 40 Mins have improved.

CAT III (an unfortunate handle for a Brummie)

[tubby linton]

15 is the only end you can autoland on at the moment. If both ends were available and with virtually no wind you would use the end with the best RVR. I am very surprised that the airport chose the autumn, winter to work on the glidepath for 33. The lowest RVR recorded on the metars was 225 which should have been manageable for the Airbus and Boeings ,so I wonder if something else was going on to stop them getting in?

[oceanhawk]

Cat 3B requires 75m
Cat 3A requires 200m.
Cat 2 requires 300m.
Cat 1 requires 550m ( LTS at some airfields now can be reduced further to 400m ). I think.

If the wind was from the south , then RW 15 if perfect. A tailwind is also fine, how much is down to various criteria .
If the lowest RVR was 225 m, then it's the aircraft needs cat 111 A or B. Nothing to do with the airfield . However, it's about time runway 33 was restored and in any event it is being restored.

[tubby linton]

My point oceanhawk was that despite the RVR being adequate for 3B operations flights were not getting in. This could be because the actual RVR was less than the metar or there was a problem with the ground equipment which raised the minima.

[BHX5DME]

The problem was all the FlyBe Dash 8 and a couple of Stobart ATR's were holding low i.e. below FL100 and the RVR's were up and down.
The true Cat 3 aircraft came in high i.e over FL100 and it was an ATC nightmare trying to get them down hence a couple went to Manchester (MON & RYR)

B-KQZ Cathay in BHX this morning - nice !

[Guest 112233]

Just an Idea

As the traffic levels have increased, is it worth looking at establishing different Holding Areas within the CTA to cater for differentiated STARS for CAT1/2 and CAT 3 equipped/crew validated aircraft. (not just Brum by the way).

I bet this is going to be unpopular; Airspace limitations, ATC complexity issues etc (lots !) ; but last night's complications illustrate a capacity problem re organisation of controlled Airspace around this airfield and Brum is not that big yet.

Luton & Stansted "seem" as stated earlier,to have services predominantly provided by B738 & Airbus; a relatively homogeneous selection of equipment. Economics of course.

I bet the situation applies more widely: Do the likes of MAN,FRA or AMS have differential routings for aircraft related to landing minima. (LHR is not typical of what I have in mind - Minimum size of traffic.)

CAT III

[tubby linton]

BHX does have quite a few holds that it can use, and the problem of different aircraft having different minima cannot be new.Without having all of the traffic replays to hand it will be difficult to determine what the problem was but I am sure the operators will be having a talk to the atc unit at the airport to see what can be improved on. Does anybody know the maximum number of aircraft that were holding and where they were holding? Perhaps a bit of stack swapping would have helped?

[jon01]

On Fri 16th Dec between 20:00 and 21:45 there were up to 15 aircraft holding at one time, split between GROVE, CHASE and WELIN.

The Met Office failed to put any mention of fog on the BHX TAF for the early part of that night, which could have warned crews in advance to carry more fuel for holding and could have pre-warned ATC

The fiasco was caused by a combination of; fog not forecast, a large number of inbounds, full ILS only available on the one end that had the worst RVRs and a mix of aircraft in the hold requiring a range of different minimum RVRs. At one point there were two aircraft diverting away due to low fuel, with one aircraft diverting in from East Midlands who got a fairly quick approach! Also, Manchester and London were not very co-operative when BHX aircraft requested diverts away, probably because they were at full stretch too

London and Birmingham ATC did their best, but were clearly struggling at times with the situation, a situation that has probably never occurred before

Lots to be learned from this and hopefully this situation will not happen again

[spannersatcx]

B-KQZ Cathay in BHX this morning - nice !

for the spotters maybe, bit of a recovery nightmare, but it got sorted!

[OltonPete]

Diversions

I won't comment on Friday night too much as I am simply not qualified but I am sure lessons will be learned and I can sort of echo what jon01 has said that I have never come across an event quite like it.

As for last night and today in general - wow. Yes some negative aspects but on the whole absolutely brilliant - diversions from 10 different airfields including military encompassing a C5 Galaxy, C17, C130, 747, B77W, A332 and the same airliner diverting in twice (Air Moldova) plus several bizjets.

It was clearly a stretch at times but overall it was sorted, quite a day.

It is often said passenger wise BHX suffers due to the proximity of London and Manchester but occasionally it also gains from its location and today was one of those days. Simply fascinating all day long and beats Christmas shopping any day.

Pete

[Guest 112233]

Olton Pete

I can only echo your comments about Friday Nights events. I too am unqualified to comment. I only very intermittently looked at FR24 to get an idea of what was happening at about 22.00 (See my previous post 16/12/2016).

Thanks to Jon01 for his explanation of events. I have used the Airport as a passenger 20-30 times over the last 30 years (not the last 18 I might add) and I feel as a professional,(not a Pilot or infrastructural Engineer) that technical infrastructure support and development at this facility (amongst others I might add ), has not kept place with the increasing demands placed upon the facility. All credit without reservation, to everyone involved for maintaining a safe outcome.

The lengthening of the Runway and BHX's geographical location: as well as the weather (poorly forecast) and the total UK Air traffic load; make situations where those holes in the Cheddar, line up; more likely. Think about Jan and Feb to come.

Friday 16th was a warning: The prolonged loss of the ILS at the 33 end may have made things a lot worse.Operational input by someone better informed than me is needed here.

It's legitimate to ask if the timing and scale of the remedial work was [unduly] influenced by commercial income to the Airport company.

The "Lessons will be learned platitudes" seem to be inadequate in the circumstances.

[Seljuk22]

Eurowings will launch 6 weekly flights to VIE next summer

[BHX5DME]

Now showing in google flights from Sunday 26th March :-


EW5892 VIE-BHX 1300-1430 Sun
EW5892 VIE-BHX 1715-1845 Mon, Wed-Fri
EW5892 VIE-BHX 1735-1905 Tue


EW5893 BHX-VIE 1510-1830 Sun
EW5893 BHX-VIE 1930-2250 Mon, Wed-Fri
EW5893 BHX-VIE 1945-2305 Tue


good news great to see Vienna being served

[Lassie]

Is their any truth in the rumour of BHX direct to Austria's second city Graz with British Midland?

[OltonPete]

Graz

Lassie

A possibility, especially if search Graz & JLR - could be 2 + 2 = 5 or could be something in it.

Good to see Vienna back and at a decent frequency as long as you don't mind getting into Vienna late.

Hi CATIII-NDB

Nothing more to add re the ILS 33 but hopefully things will become a bit clearer in the New Year.

Pete

[Guest 112233]

OP

Thanks OP - A Msg that the NOTAM Dates Re the 33 ILS GP O/S have been extended: posted elsewhere. I hope its resolved soon.

Not to mention the LUT restrictions as well ? CAT IIIB downgraded to CATIIIA

Thanks

CATIII

[OltonPete]

Graz

Second new Austrian service in two days BMIR to Graz bookable.

Twice a week Monday & Friday from 27 February.

BM1401 0730 departure BHX arrives back 12.40 Monday ER4
BM1405 11:25 departure BHX arrives back 16:35 Friday ER4

So BHX based and three and a bit days on the ground!!!! Only joking.

I think we can determine from these schedules a sponsored service me thinks.

Bookable for a kings ransom.

Pete

[davidjohnson6]

Pete - the bmir website doesn't list Graz as a destination (yet). In the past I've seen that the first day routes go on sale, the cheapest fares quoted are stupidly high (essentially a fully refundable fare only someone desperate would buy), only for more realistic fares to appear a day or two later - presumably down to some sort of IT systems issue. Is it perhaps possible that BHX-GRZ appears with more sensible fares in a few days time ?

[BA318]

I believe the Graz flight is being operated for Jaguar Land Rover as it connects two facilities they have.