BIRMINGHAM - 6
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J636.
You are wrong !!
Check out the attached from these official world airport docs.
Check out page 34 (landing charges) see where BHX was in 2010 and how much cheaper MAN is even at their peak times !!!
8th most expensive out of 48 Euro airport entries.
We are about the same price as FRA
Combined handling/landing we are better but still in the top 20 out of 48 Euro airports
http://www.atrsworld.org/docs/Key%20...27July2011.pdf
Nigel
You are wrong !!
Check out the attached from these official world airport docs.
Check out page 34 (landing charges) see where BHX was in 2010 and how much cheaper MAN is even at their peak times !!!
8th most expensive out of 48 Euro airport entries.
We are about the same price as FRA
Combined handling/landing we are better but still in the top 20 out of 48 Euro airports
http://www.atrsworld.org/docs/Key%20...27July2011.pdf
Nigel
Last edited by nigel osborne; 23rd Oct 2013 at 13:31.
Nigel.
I know that the alleged high charges are one of your long standing hobby horses, but I would ask a simple question.
In a commercial world why would any airport (truthfully) answer questions relating to it's fees, which are fundamental to it's commercial operation, to any organisation who's aim was / is to publish league tables?
Take DFS (other furniture stores are available); they claim that they sell a sofa for Ģ 999.99 - but are suddenly able to flog it for $ 499.98 - half price. If an organisation were to survey furniture retailers, and were fed with "normal price" information by DFS they would surely rank amongst the most expensive.
What BHX charge airlines, and for that matter concessions, has nothing to do with a published table of rates, but to do with a negotiation between them (the seller) and the airline / concessionaire (the buyer). This is how the commercial world works.
Of course if BHX were to offer, buy now with nothing to pay until Easter, then 3 years free credit, then I'm sure they'd have airlines queuing up to operate - but then again that's the sort of deal that O'Leary expects - and I suspect, except for daft airport managements, never gets.
I know that the alleged high charges are one of your long standing hobby horses, but I would ask a simple question.
In a commercial world why would any airport (truthfully) answer questions relating to it's fees, which are fundamental to it's commercial operation, to any organisation who's aim was / is to publish league tables?
Take DFS (other furniture stores are available); they claim that they sell a sofa for Ģ 999.99 - but are suddenly able to flog it for $ 499.98 - half price. If an organisation were to survey furniture retailers, and were fed with "normal price" information by DFS they would surely rank amongst the most expensive.
What BHX charge airlines, and for that matter concessions, has nothing to do with a published table of rates, but to do with a negotiation between them (the seller) and the airline / concessionaire (the buyer). This is how the commercial world works.
Of course if BHX were to offer, buy now with nothing to pay until Easter, then 3 years free credit, then I'm sure they'd have airlines queuing up to operate - but then again that's the sort of deal that O'Leary expects - and I suspect, except for daft airport managements, never gets.
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ATNOTTS
Andrew
How silly of me, of course all the World Airports in this report have provided duff info.
Earlier this year I spoke with Air Transat in Montreal enquiring why will a 95% load factor they didn't put another plane into BHX to YYZ.
Firstly they said BHX was a bolt on service as it was their only airport in the UK they now fly with just 1 destination and we were lucky to have them therefore.
Secondly they stated why should we fly a extra plane into BHX when we can fly 2 into MAN for the same price..
I rest my case.
Nigel
Andrew
How silly of me, of course all the World Airports in this report have provided duff info.
Earlier this year I spoke with Air Transat in Montreal enquiring why will a 95% load factor they didn't put another plane into BHX to YYZ.
Firstly they said BHX was a bolt on service as it was their only airport in the UK they now fly with just 1 destination and we were lucky to have them therefore.
Secondly they stated why should we fly a extra plane into BHX when we can fly 2 into MAN for the same price..
I rest my case.
Nigel
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BHX Charges
Nigel, totally agree!
The figures for Combined Landing & Passenger Charges are a real eye-opener.
Reading off the bar chart isn't easy but the approximate rates were:
BHX $2,900
MAN (peak) $1,900
MAN (off-peak) $900
and by way of comparison AMS $2,500
STN $2,300
STN (off-peak) $2,100
How BHX can justify charging more than a London airport like Stansted baffles me!
Nigel, totally agree!
The figures for Combined Landing & Passenger Charges are a real eye-opener.
Reading off the bar chart isn't easy but the approximate rates were:
BHX $2,900
MAN (peak) $1,900
MAN (off-peak) $900
and by way of comparison AMS $2,500
STN $2,300
STN (off-peak) $2,100
How BHX can justify charging more than a London airport like Stansted baffles me!
The big question is why do they charge so much to carriers? What does BHX offer that justifies such high charges compared with say MAN LHR LGW. If they are trying to claw back cash to pay for previous debts then it's bad management.
A bit like the current energy prices conflict. Customers will go elsewhere!
A bit like the current energy prices conflict. Customers will go elsewhere!
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Crewmeal,
Yes agree very puzzling why they are so high you would expect LTN/STN to be higher.
Be very difficult to drop them much now with the runway extension to pay for you would think.
BHX are doing well with their full fare airlines so they seem happy to say for these sort of charges, but certainly hit LCC interests you would think.
Nigel
Yes agree very puzzling why they are so high you would expect LTN/STN to be higher.
Be very difficult to drop them much now with the runway extension to pay for you would think.
BHX are doing well with their full fare airlines so they seem happy to say for these sort of charges, but certainly hit LCC interests you would think.
Nigel
How silly of me, of course all the World Airports in this report have provided duff info
I publicise my best price (doesn't matter what the product is) then I have nowhere to go in terms of discount to lure a contract - no discount to offer, no incentive, other than "my product is better than product "x".
I absolutely do not believe that airports are any different, and anyone naive enough to believe that airports trot out totally honest data on the minimum or maximum prices needs a reality check!
As for talking to someone at an exhibition, I've worked on exhibition stands, as will many others have, and personnel working on them meeting and greeting punters are rarely people with the inside information. You only get to talk to the decision makers when you've got "real business" to talk - "tyre kickers" are despatched as quickly as possible!
There are probably a million and one other reasons why BHX isn't attracting new business (even though in the real world it quite patently is), but they probably don't want more low cost carriers as much as they would like to attract legacy carriers and pitch their marketing accordingly.
That's not wrong, it's called their business strategy with which we can agree, or disagree - but it's their train set, and their's to play with, and businesswise they've not done a bad job so far!
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Maybe they are using the publically available information for their survey as many airports have them available on line?
Fees and Charges - Birmingham Airport
Fees and Charges - Birmingham Airport
Maybe they are using the publicly available information for their survey as many airports have them available on line?
If an airline believes there is money to be made flying a route, they'll have done their sums based on all the operating costs, which will include landing and handling fees, and what must surely be the biggest slice of all - fuel. The landing fees will be a comparatively small proportion of the overall cost - important but not the overriding consideration.
Final thought, if BHX is really so expensive, how come so many ad hoc freighters find it an attractive arrival airport?
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Final thought, if BHX is really so expensive, how come so many ad hoc
freighters find it an attractive arrival airport?
freighters find it an attractive arrival airport?
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AT NOTTS
You obviously have no idea why these freighters are coming in. Spare parts for JLR..
The penalty clauses imposed for these cars not being ready are unbelievable ,hence why JLR are so desperate to get parts they are short of, at express delivery.
Have a mate who is a manager there whos in charge of this important part for JLR
Costing a fortune to arrange all these flights but far more if they don't get them finished on time.
So nothing at all to do with BHX prices the flts are a must.
Nigel
You obviously have no idea why these freighters are coming in. Spare parts for JLR..
The penalty clauses imposed for these cars not being ready are unbelievable ,hence why JLR are so desperate to get parts they are short of, at express delivery.
Have a mate who is a manager there whos in charge of this important part for JLR
Costing a fortune to arrange all these flights but far more if they don't get them finished on time.
So nothing at all to do with BHX prices the flts are a must.
Nigel
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Using BHX report
Arrived Tuesday. Positive: we didnīt have to wait to go on stand. Negative: the usual long lines at T2 imigration (note: must get non EU passport for faster passage).
Departed today: Negative: Almost 50% of the self check-in kiosks (T2) out of service (two of which were also u/s last time I departed a few weeks ago). Positive: only short wait at security. Negative: smelly toilets in T2 (departure area), with only 2 out of 3 urinals serviceable. To call it a third world airport would be an insult to the third world!
Departed today: Negative: Almost 50% of the self check-in kiosks (T2) out of service (two of which were also u/s last time I departed a few weeks ago). Positive: only short wait at security. Negative: smelly toilets in T2 (departure area), with only 2 out of 3 urinals serviceable. To call it a third world airport would be an insult to the third world!
AT NOTTS
You obviously have no idea why these freighters are coming in. Spare parts for JLR..
The penalty clauses imposed for these cars not being ready are unbelievable ,hence why JLR are so desperate to get parts they are short of, at express delivery.
You obviously have no idea why these freighters are coming in. Spare parts for JLR..
The penalty clauses imposed for these cars not being ready are unbelievable ,hence why JLR are so desperate to get parts they are short of, at express delivery.
Point is, the travel time from EMA to Solihull / Castle Bromwich would not be an obstacle to flying JLR line stop parts there rather than BHX, BHX is more convenient for sure, but if the differential between the costs of the two airport was that great then, believe me, they'd fly the stuff into EMA and truck it to the plants!
I don't honestly believe we're going to agree on the whole question of fees and commercial realities, so this is my final word on the matter. Move on!
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Point is, the travel time from EMA to Solihull / Castle Bromwich would not be an obstacle to flying JLR line stop parts there rather than BHX, BHX is more convenient for sure, but if the differential between the costs of the two airport was that great then, believe me, they'd fly the stuff into EMA and truck it to the plants!
The biggest attraction for BHX for ad-hoc cargo is the speedy handling of course, being on the Elmdon means that cargo can be offloaded straight off the aircraft into the truck and leave the airport 10 minutes after the aircraft has landed.
No warehouse charges either, which is a very large consideration for brokers and forwarders.
May explain why BHX handles ad-hoc cargo not only for JLR, but also GM, Bentley,BMW, and even Nissan, despite other aiports such as EMA, LPL, DSA, OXF, MME,NCL being so much closer to the eventual destination.
Last edited by JennyB; 25th Oct 2013 at 15:18.
Defzr..
I flew out on the evening Emirates this week
It was a full flight & the airport was busy but all in all no problem - check in at 18-30 took 15 mins security took 10 mins inside departures again busy with lots of people in the food bars areas - we ate in 1 the food tooled 15 mins
All in all very busy but still was nice relaxed time
Enjoy your flight
Simon
I flew out on the evening Emirates this week
It was a full flight & the airport was busy but all in all no problem - check in at 18-30 took 15 mins security took 10 mins inside departures again busy with lots of people in the food bars areas - we ate in 1 the food tooled 15 mins
All in all very busy but still was nice relaxed time
Enjoy your flight
Simon
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Simoncorbett,
Id never say going through the airport is a relaxing time, probably pretty stressful, number of things we have had go wrong over the years,
Suitcase lost on arrival at Las Vegas,bags jammed in XRAY machine, almost missed connecting flt JFK. Connecting flight from MIA to MCO tickets wrongly related to Gran Cayman, almost missed correct flight.
Split suitcase BHX,boarding ticket wrong details printed Rome, 14 hr delay LHR weather, I could go on and on !
Love flying but the stress especially when the kids were younger of getting to the plane
Nigel
Id never say going through the airport is a relaxing time, probably pretty stressful, number of things we have had go wrong over the years,
Suitcase lost on arrival at Las Vegas,bags jammed in XRAY machine, almost missed connecting flt JFK. Connecting flight from MIA to MCO tickets wrongly related to Gran Cayman, almost missed correct flight.
Split suitcase BHX,boarding ticket wrong details printed Rome, 14 hr delay LHR weather, I could go on and on !
Love flying but the stress especially when the kids were younger of getting to the plane
Nigel
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This was the question...
'Can I ask what the place is like on a Thursday afternoon/evening? I'm catching the EK flight to Dubai at 2020. Will the place be heaving or empty? '
Nigel, I am sure i and pretty well everyone else has had a bad experience in flying. Defizr asked a simple question which was adequately answered by a number of Ppruners.
Your experiences, and we could all add our own comments, are of no relevance whatsoever. I am beginning to think you like the sound of your own voice...
What is BHX like on a Thursday afternoon/evening? Stick to the subject.
Nigel, I am sure i and pretty well everyone else has had a bad experience in flying. Defizr asked a simple question which was adequately answered by a number of Ppruners.
Your experiences, and we could all add our own comments, are of no relevance whatsoever. I am beginning to think you like the sound of your own voice...
What is BHX like on a Thursday afternoon/evening? Stick to the subject.