BIRMINGHAM - 6
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This is the Birmingham thread not the tourist spots of Northern England thread
Birmingham is a ideal arrival airport for inbound tourists with Stratford Warwick and The Cotswolds on its doorstep
In addition Birmingham has it is only visitor attractions and don't forget it's excellent transport links to London and the North
There is no doubt that the recent Chinese announcement will lead to a scheduled service
Birmingham is a ideal arrival airport for inbound tourists with Stratford Warwick and The Cotswolds on its doorstep
In addition Birmingham has it is only visitor attractions and don't forget it's excellent transport links to London and the North
There is no doubt that the recent Chinese announcement will lead to a scheduled service
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You see China Southern serving Beijing? Or a completely different carrier serving Beijing (that'll be Air China), or China Southern serving Guanghzou? Cos right now they're flying low yield tourists on a B787 outta LHR and not making a lot of margin.
So if they can't make LHR work, what makes you say there's "no doubt" this will lead to a scheduled service from BHX to PEK or possibly CAN or throwing one more into the mix, PVG?
So if they can't make LHR work, what makes you say there's "no doubt" this will lead to a scheduled service from BHX to PEK or possibly CAN or throwing one more into the mix, PVG?
There is no doubt that the recent Chinese announcement will lead to a scheduled service
As for this utter nonsense and willy waving over which (non London) city could / should get a direct Chinese connection, and which region gets the most tourists this is drivel! What will drive any decision, apart from legalities, is where the best yield is going to come from, in terms both of passengers and the Cinderella revenue stream - cargo.
BHX and MAN should be working together to ensure us disadvantaged people living and working outside the Southeast get a piece of the action!
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Thanks Oltonpete. Always enjoy your well informed commentary on the stats.
One should also highlight that BHX-MUC has remained nearly flat despite ZB's withdrawal of flights, good for LH who operate with significantly increased fare now on that route.
BHX-FRA also recently has prices seen raised, and yet enjoys rising pax numbers (but then most pax on that route are connecting, so BHX-FRA price changes would not necessarily apply to those).
On a different note, I wonder what happened to the HAJ stats, they were missing the RAF figures for Jan 2014, and now it's a big 0 for BHX-HAJ...
One should also highlight that BHX-MUC has remained nearly flat despite ZB's withdrawal of flights, good for LH who operate with significantly increased fare now on that route.
BHX-FRA also recently has prices seen raised, and yet enjoys rising pax numbers (but then most pax on that route are connecting, so BHX-FRA price changes would not necessarily apply to those).
On a different note, I wonder what happened to the HAJ stats, they were missing the RAF figures for Jan 2014, and now it's a big 0 for BHX-HAJ...
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With all the talk of Chinese visitors going to local tourist attractions, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the No 1 tourist destination for Chinese in the Southern half of England - Bicester Village. Not all that accessible from MAN.
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This is the Birmingham thread not the tourist spots of Northern England thread.
er hang matey this was the press release that BHX put out ......
Caissa, one of China’s leading travel specialists, will sell a range of organised package tours to Chinese visitors seeking to explore the world class tourism attractions in the Midlands, the North of England and London ...
Put simply its suggesting there is not enough mileage in what we have here so we do indeed, need to pull in the attractions of The North of England and indeed London to make it work !
That is exactly what the BHX CEO said is it not ?
I do not understand why that cannot be robustly challenged with both sides putting forward good sensible argument and a point of view as long as its based on facts OR informed opinion ?
ATN you make a superb point re our London centric civil service BUT then contradict yourself
As for this utter nonsense and willy waving over which (non London) city could / should get a direct Chinese connection, and which region gets the most tourists this is drivel!
What will drive any decision, apart from legalities, is where the best yield is going to come from, in terms both of passengers and the Cinderella revenue stream - cargo.
Clearly it is not drivel !
What has spooked those of a Mancunian persuasion is the undeniable fact that BHX has stole a march on MAN, I totally applaud there audacity but as Evan Davies suggested in the excellent Mind The Gap on BBC2, there is really only one City to challenge the dominance of London and that is Manchester.
Throwing money or dare I say it amending bilaterals in a scatter gun approach will fail !
Evan Davies has NO agenda , it "may" irk but he based his analysis on hard facts !
Again some of the Brummie fanboys are grasping at these charters like the last drops of water in a desert, I saw one comment indicating this is great for the Midlands "manufacturing industry" ! Really ?
If the idiots in Whitehall are swayed into amending bilaterals BHXs way by 3 charters into BHX, Midlanders would, with damn good reason rejoice, but the fact is it would be based on the flimsiest of evidence.
The incredible reality is, that despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary....... it "could" actually happen !
If I was the CEO of BHX I would certainly be banging on the door suggesting we have demand "now give us the flights " !
er hang matey this was the press release that BHX put out ......
Caissa, one of China’s leading travel specialists, will sell a range of organised package tours to Chinese visitors seeking to explore the world class tourism attractions in the Midlands, the North of England and London ...
Put simply its suggesting there is not enough mileage in what we have here so we do indeed, need to pull in the attractions of The North of England and indeed London to make it work !
That is exactly what the BHX CEO said is it not ?
I do not understand why that cannot be robustly challenged with both sides putting forward good sensible argument and a point of view as long as its based on facts OR informed opinion ?
ATN you make a superb point re our London centric civil service BUT then contradict yourself
As for this utter nonsense and willy waving over which (non London) city could / should get a direct Chinese connection, and which region gets the most tourists this is drivel!
What will drive any decision, apart from legalities, is where the best yield is going to come from, in terms both of passengers and the Cinderella revenue stream - cargo.
Clearly it is not drivel !
What has spooked those of a Mancunian persuasion is the undeniable fact that BHX has stole a march on MAN, I totally applaud there audacity but as Evan Davies suggested in the excellent Mind The Gap on BBC2, there is really only one City to challenge the dominance of London and that is Manchester.
Throwing money or dare I say it amending bilaterals in a scatter gun approach will fail !
Evan Davies has NO agenda , it "may" irk but he based his analysis on hard facts !
Again some of the Brummie fanboys are grasping at these charters like the last drops of water in a desert, I saw one comment indicating this is great for the Midlands "manufacturing industry" ! Really ?
If the idiots in Whitehall are swayed into amending bilaterals BHXs way by 3 charters into BHX, Midlanders would, with damn good reason rejoice, but the fact is it would be based on the flimsiest of evidence.
The incredible reality is, that despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary....... it "could" actually happen !
If I was the CEO of BHX I would certainly be banging on the door suggesting we have demand "now give us the flights " !
Last edited by Bagso; 19th Mar 2014 at 00:02.
Another angle to look at is put the Chinese tourists on EK. Plenty of connections to China and fill up the 777s. Then BHX might, just might get a 380 
It seems BHX marketing have got off their backsides and done some pretty good work here according to their web pages:
Birmingham Airport and Marketing Birmingham Join Up For New China Tourism Campaign - Birmingham Airport
It seems BHX marketing have got off their backsides and done some pretty good work here according to their web pages:
Birmingham Airport and Marketing Birmingham Join Up For New China Tourism Campaign - Birmingham Airport
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Chinese tourists on EK
crewmeal wrote
With 90% load factor on BHX-DXB in February there isn't a lot of space left on those 777s.
Daza
Another angle to look at is put the Chinese tourists on EK. Plenty of connections to China and fill up the 777s. Then BHX might, just might get a 380
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Bagso, you're wildly misquoting Evan Davis, what he said was a city region spreading from Leeds to Liverpool inlcuding everything within is the only connurbation that can challenge London. That's 3 large cities and their metro areas, not 1.
As for more regular flights my guess is that if these 3 flights work we may see a repeat next summer, maybe even a slight expansion but for me it's very optimistic to think there flights are a precursor to a scheduled link.
As for more regular flights my guess is that if these 3 flights work we may see a repeat next summer, maybe even a slight expansion but for me it's very optimistic to think there flights are a precursor to a scheduled link.
Last edited by hammerb32; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:11.
MODs - Put a stop to this silly MAN vs. BHX nonsense!
Can we not move on from this rather infantile debate which seems to largely being provoked from a poster not normally lurking on this thread?
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What is it about the BHX thread that brings out the Manchester and London detractors?
Even a modest positive event for Birmingham triggers negative comments and Compto3bravo's contribution is particularly nasty.
The last time this happened the Mods shut the BHX thread down - strange really as the problem was caused by the usual suspects from elsewhere.
So for goodness sake, give it a rest guys.
Even a modest positive event for Birmingham triggers negative comments and Compto3bravo's contribution is particularly nasty.
The last time this happened the Mods shut the BHX thread down - strange really as the problem was caused by the usual suspects from elsewhere.
So for goodness sake, give it a rest guys.
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Once again the people who cannot control their urges to prove they are clever or even good contributors to PPRuNe, and this thread in particular, always shoot themselves in the foot.
I will be issuing bans if they continue with their childish rants and comments.
Either those who feel compelled to post drivel stop or they will take a long rest from PPRuNe.
Hope that is clear enough.
PPP
I will be issuing bans if they continue with their childish rants and comments.
Either those who feel compelled to post drivel stop or they will take a long rest from PPRuNe.
Hope that is clear enough.
PPP
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Load factors
I wonder if someone can confirm the Feb.2014 loads for EK.
There seems to be some confusion with one forum quoting 93% and on this forum 82%.Either way with a 420+ seat aircraft in use twice a day these are fantastic loads.
I know most people on here would like to see a 380 on the route but I bet a third service is introduced before that happens.
There seems to be some confusion with one forum quoting 93% and on this forum 82%.Either way with a 420+ seat aircraft in use twice a day these are fantastic loads.
I know most people on here would like to see a 380 on the route but I bet a third service is introduced before that happens.
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BHX BOD,
Based on nothing other than hearsay I'm on the understanding that current cargo loads would mean if an A380 is deployed on either of the daily flights a daily cargo flight would be necesary to pick up the slack, this would seem to favour a 3rd daily flight. As said there's no science behind this other than murmerings I've heard so don't take it as gospel.
Based on nothing other than hearsay I'm on the understanding that current cargo loads would mean if an A380 is deployed on either of the daily flights a daily cargo flight would be necesary to pick up the slack, this would seem to favour a 3rd daily flight. As said there's no science behind this other than murmerings I've heard so don't take it as gospel.
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BHX-DXB
bhx bod wrote
Olton Pete who is the numbers guru 
wrote in post 1921
OP is usually spot on
Remember that load factors are just the number of seats sold. Yield is MUCH more important, how many business class seats sold? How many fully flexible economy seats sold? (They are often more expensive than restricted business class fares). I guess only Emirates know that.
I wonder if someone can confirm the Feb.2014 loads for EK.
There seems to be some confusion with one forum quoting 93% and on this forum 82%
There seems to be some confusion with one forum quoting 93% and on this forum 82%
wrote in post 1921
Emirates was up 11% and back at 90% load factor
Remember that load factors are just the number of seats sold. Yield is MUCH more important, how many business class seats sold? How many fully flexible economy seats sold? (They are often more expensive than restricted business class fares). I guess only Emirates know that.
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hammerb32,
You're correct, essentially with the A380 you have the cargo capacity of a single deck widebodied aircraft. The increase in passenger numbers (and therefore luggage) to the cargo capacity is disproportionate so you do indeed lose a fair chunk of cargo capacity.
B77W cargo capacity volume is 216m^3
A380 cargo capacity volume is 184m^3
...shows it's quite a significant amount too when you take into account that you have a smaller volume with a larger number of passengers.
You're correct, essentially with the A380 you have the cargo capacity of a single deck widebodied aircraft. The increase in passenger numbers (and therefore luggage) to the cargo capacity is disproportionate so you do indeed lose a fair chunk of cargo capacity.
B77W cargo capacity volume is 216m^3
A380 cargo capacity volume is 184m^3
...shows it's quite a significant amount too when you take into account that you have a smaller volume with a larger number of passengers.
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EK
Whilst a 90% load factor and a double daily flights from BHX to DXB is to be applauded, (especially given the capacity increases last year from MAN and LHR to the Middle East), Daza is right - it's the yield that matters. What concerns me is that EK, even after many years of service between BHX and DXB still don't see fit to offer First Class from BHX - this would indicate that higher end yield pax are not using EK from BHX in high numbers? I am told that Business often fills up but how many of those are paying full/non discounted fares? Not enough it would seem for EK to offer First Class from BHX as well. Do EK have 2 class A380's? If not I doubt we will be seeing them scheduled to BHX in the near future.
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GayFriendly,
Not currently no. However, they are in consideration of it at the moment...
Emirates considering A380 two-class configuration | Airframes content from ATWOnline
With the arrival of Dnata cargo at Birmingham though, the demand for cargo capacity could work against an A380 for the reasons I stated above and essentially a 3-daily or potentially 3rd service with a 77W on certain days is more likely.
Not currently no. However, they are in consideration of it at the moment...
Emirates considering A380 two-class configuration | Airframes content from ATWOnline
With the arrival of Dnata cargo at Birmingham though, the demand for cargo capacity could work against an A380 for the reasons I stated above and essentially a 3-daily or potentially 3rd service with a 77W on certain days is more likely.