SOUTHEND - 4
mikkie4
I'm afraid you're getting into the realms of fantasy.
Still, it's nice to see LCY diversions on a frequent basis with BA's wetleased Saab 2000 on their IOM-LCY service doing so yesterday morning.
AirLCY
The odd thing was that both the LCY and IOM departure/arrivals boards showed the LCY-IOM as cancelled and it appears the aircraft positioned back to IOM empty. Why would they not coach/train the outbound pax to SEN? I don't think I would be very happy if I was booked on that flight and discovered that had happened. Perhaps both airport's information boards were incorrect, although that seems unlikely.
I'm afraid you're getting into the realms of fantasy.
Still, it's nice to see LCY diversions on a frequent basis with BA's wetleased Saab 2000 on their IOM-LCY service doing so yesterday morning.
AirLCY
The odd thing was that both the LCY and IOM departure/arrivals boards showed the LCY-IOM as cancelled and it appears the aircraft positioned back to IOM empty. Why would they not coach/train the outbound pax to SEN? I don't think I would be very happy if I was booked on that flight and discovered that had happened. Perhaps both airport's information boards were incorrect, although that seems unlikely.
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Expressflight,
Perhaps they needed to get the aircraft back to IOM to protect the rest of the day services, i.e. cancel one flight in favour of protecting the rest of the day!
The joy of scheduled services ... "Cancel, rebook first available flight"
Somewhere, someplace, there will be guys in a back room with all the information to hand and in the best place to decide which pax to upset and which pax to protect and often such is not obvious to airports and/or airport handling agents.
Perhaps they needed to get the aircraft back to IOM to protect the rest of the day services, i.e. cancel one flight in favour of protecting the rest of the day!
The joy of scheduled services ... "Cancel, rebook first available flight"
Somewhere, someplace, there will be guys in a back room with all the information to hand and in the best place to decide which pax to upset and which pax to protect and often such is not obvious to airports and/or airport handling agents.
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Lack of Early & Late Trains
Gentlemen All.
For what it is worth - I understood some while ago that the train operator is keen to operate additional trains and that it is Network Rail who are being intransigent, claiming that due to maintenance requirements they cannnot release the track. It was suggested to me that there were those connected with the railway who would prefer to see the 'privately' operated station fail, as they think it is they who should put their mark of 'efficiency' on it! There was mention of some outdated trade union views. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this, but assessed the information source as being reliable.
For what it is worth - I understood some while ago that the train operator is keen to operate additional trains and that it is Network Rail who are being intransigent, claiming that due to maintenance requirements they cannnot release the track. It was suggested to me that there were those connected with the railway who would prefer to see the 'privately' operated station fail, as they think it is they who should put their mark of 'efficiency' on it! There was mention of some outdated trade union views. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this, but assessed the information source as being reliable.
I can understand that Network Rail can prevent trains running during the night and that opening train stations on the route can quickly get very expensive.
Chartering buses / coaches is not expensive and a way to test demand before making a bigger organisational change - also keeps Network Rail out of the frame. What motivations would Greater Anglia / Abellio have towards operating coaches, stopping at maybe 2 stops en route and which would accept train tickets as valid ? Would the Dept of Transport or a rail regulator have any cause to object either ?
Chartering buses / coaches is not expensive and a way to test demand before making a bigger organisational change - also keeps Network Rail out of the frame. What motivations would Greater Anglia / Abellio have towards operating coaches, stopping at maybe 2 stops en route and which would accept train tickets as valid ? Would the Dept of Transport or a rail regulator have any cause to object either ?
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davidjohnson6
Interesting questions to which I do not have the answers, apart from wondering whether for the operation of any form of regular coach service, however temporary/experimental, that possibly some form of road passenger transport licence would have to be sought.
Interesting questions to which I do not have the answers, apart from wondering whether for the operation of any form of regular coach service, however temporary/experimental, that possibly some form of road passenger transport licence would have to be sought.
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I understood some while ago that the train operator is keen to operate additional trains and that it is Network Rail who are being intransigent, claiming that due to maintenance requirements they cannnot release the track.
The truth is that trains do run a lot earlier and a lot later but in the wrong direction. While there is no train service serving Southend from London that would allow passengers to catch the first easyjet departures of the day the first train from the airport heading to London leaves at 04:35 followed by a 5:05 departure.
At night there are London departures right up until 00:18 which arrives at Southend at 01:20. From the airport the 23:05 is the last London bound train of the day which is of no use if you are arriving at anytime after 22:30.
Stobart doesn’t help matters by forcing late arriving passengers to leave the terminal who would be prepared to wait for the 04:35 departure to London.
All of London’s airports with much better 24/7 public transport links still have passengers that spend the night in the terminal so they don’t have to travel in the early hours but that is not an option here at Southend.
Last edited by LTNman; 25th Mar 2013 at 06:40.
LTNman
For what it's worth my understanding of the situation is in line with that of Lord Gumboil Jnr and that Greater Anglia are prepared to offer earlier trains. It does seem to be Network Rail who do not want to agree to this.
For what it's worth my understanding of the situation is in line with that of Lord Gumboil Jnr and that Greater Anglia are prepared to offer earlier trains. It does seem to be Network Rail who do not want to agree to this.
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Maybe so but you still can't get past the fact that there is only 3 hours in the night when trains are not running. It's just a shame that they are travelling in the wrong direction to benefit the airports passengers.
Last edited by LTNman; 25th Mar 2013 at 08:43.
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Southend Airport Trains
In fact the current operating times are actually even greater than set out by LtnMan -
Monday - Saturday - First train departs Southend Victoria at 0400 and is scheduled at Southend Airport Station at 0405.
Monday - Saturday - Last train departs London Liverpool Street at 0050 and is scheduled at Southend Airport Station at 0147.
Sunday equivalent times are 0615 / 0619 and 0044 / 0148 (although in reality Sunday trains are currently frequently partially replaced by a substitute bus service due to engineering.
Monday - Saturday - First train departs Southend Victoria at 0400 and is scheduled at Southend Airport Station at 0405.
Monday - Saturday - Last train departs London Liverpool Street at 0050 and is scheduled at Southend Airport Station at 0147.
Sunday equivalent times are 0615 / 0619 and 0044 / 0148 (although in reality Sunday trains are currently frequently partially replaced by a substitute bus service due to engineering.
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EI have released SEN-DUB for winter and its down to 6 weekly, more could be added as EIR don't release full schedules yet but what is release is for T/A connections. I can't see the third daily flight for the winter season anyway.
Last edited by EI-A330-300; 25th Mar 2013 at 13:44.
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LTNman
The fact that trains are running during times that would be beneficial to the airport, were they to be operating in the opposite direction, hardly changes the fact that it does seem that there appears to be those who will not co-operate with the Stobart operation. This is all the more borne out by the pleasant manner in which you went about blowing a hole in the claim that the track cannot be released due to maintenance requirements. I did say that I could not vouch for my earlier remarks, but it is interesting to read that Expressflight has also heard something on the 'lines' of Network Rail not being helpful. I have further been advised that there are positioning trains that pass through the station after the last evening departure to Liverpool Street. Short of hanging around after my cocoa time one night I cannot confirm this is gospel, but my informant should know what he is talking about.
The fact that trains are running during times that would be beneficial to the airport, were they to be operating in the opposite direction, hardly changes the fact that it does seem that there appears to be those who will not co-operate with the Stobart operation. This is all the more borne out by the pleasant manner in which you went about blowing a hole in the claim that the track cannot be released due to maintenance requirements. I did say that I could not vouch for my earlier remarks, but it is interesting to read that Expressflight has also heard something on the 'lines' of Network Rail not being helpful. I have further been advised that there are positioning trains that pass through the station after the last evening departure to Liverpool Street. Short of hanging around after my cocoa time one night I cannot confirm this is gospel, but my informant should know what he is talking about.
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I frequently catch the last train (0050 from London Liverpool Street)on the way home from work. It is not unusual for this to be "switched" from the "down" line to the "up" line at points between Shenfield and Southend Victoria (the route reduces from 4 track to 2 track operation once the mainline branches off at Shenfield). Presumably there is some reason (maintenance I guess) which currently necessitates single-line working during the wee small hours. Can't say exactly how long this goes on into the early morning as if you miss the 0050 at Liv. Street you have to wait for the 0528 or shell out for a taxi home. Certainly - when i was a kid in the 70s - trains did run all night on this line - albeit at very extended intervals.
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That is very interesting information EssexMan61 and probably goes someway into throwing light on the problems that exist regarding the operation of later trains serving Southend Airport to London.
Noting your remarks concerning the night operation of the Liverpool St. - Southend route back in the 1970's only goes to show how privatisation has all been 'in the public interest' I don't think!
Noting your remarks concerning the night operation of the Liverpool St. - Southend route back in the 1970's only goes to show how privatisation has all been 'in the public interest' I don't think!
The easyJet 2013/2014 Winter schedule has appeared on their website today and the SEN programme looks quite encouraging with frequency increases on many routes compared to this Winter.
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The easyJet 2013/2014 Winter schedule has appeared on their website today and the SEN programme looks quite encouraging with frequency increases on many routes compared to this Winter.
24 departures with 6 maybe 7 based aircraft I made it on a Monday in January from Stansted and that really is outrageous to say the least, regardless of what "extra" they have at Southend! There better be a big new route announcement up their sleeves.
Southend is a great alternative to those living in East London, Suffolk and Essex, but what good is it to those living more than 30 miles from it?! Stansted is a more than realistic option even to us in the Midlands, unlike Southend. I thought EasyJet went to Southend to serve a greater catchment area, instead they've got themselves a much smaller one!!!
I hope EasyJet will one day see sense and realise the damage they are causing to their customer base and their support from those in the Stansted catchment area. I'm not opposed to EasyJet growing at Southend, but I am opposed to EasyJet migrating traffic to Southend from Stansted.
Last edited by FRatSTN; 27th Mar 2013 at 18:44.
FRatSTN - while I sympathise with your situation, Easyjet has no public service obligations at Stansted. It has no formal duties to people living in one part of the UK - its duties are to its shareholders to provide a good return on capital, and possibly also to its employees to provide continued employment. A commercial airline should target profit, not turnover / volume of passengers. Travelling over 30 miles to an airport does not seem a great hardship - perhaps an hour's drive ?