MANCHESTER - 9
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Basil
Rest assured I was NOT trying trivialise Ebola or indeed turn it into a North South argument but in any other country the message would be rammed home that ALL border entry points regardless of geography, should be under the same critetia not a select few.
As you state 90% of traffic is coming through LHR LGW Eurostar so therefore 10% might permutate through other points of entry, shall we say it again ....that's 10% !
The Government and headline writers should have made it clear that ALL entry points need rigourous evaluation NOW !
Suggesting three specific points have checks introduced now whilst we get our act together on the others suggests a somewhat more relaxed approach !
It's a discussion I had over coffer with one of the NWESTs senior medics , it was he who raised this point, he shook his head in despair, there again what does he know.
Rest assured I was NOT trying trivialise Ebola or indeed turn it into a North South argument but in any other country the message would be rammed home that ALL border entry points regardless of geography, should be under the same critetia not a select few.
As you state 90% of traffic is coming through LHR LGW Eurostar so therefore 10% might permutate through other points of entry, shall we say it again ....that's 10% !
The Government and headline writers should have made it clear that ALL entry points need rigourous evaluation NOW !
Suggesting three specific points have checks introduced now whilst we get our act together on the others suggests a somewhat more relaxed approach !
It's a discussion I had over coffer with one of the NWESTs senior medics , it was he who raised this point, he shook his head in despair, there again what does he know.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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re the LHR campaign, this really is no different to the campaign that we used here in the 90s to promote R2. "Only Manchester Can Save The North" wasn't the strap line, but it might as well have been. There's oodles of runway capacity in the North and to persuade the public that digging up the Cheshire countryside was necessary meant the case needed to be made that capacity in Liverpool and Leeds wasn't the right sort of capacity or in the right place. This is no different to the LHR campaign of today.
Like all campaigns, there's an element of truth and an element of marketing. It was true in the 90s to say that certain markets and routes would only work from MAN in the North just as it's true to say today that on a national level there are routes that are only commercially viable form LHR.
It's also true to say that the economic value of a UK route into LHR is significant at the 'regional end' of the route. MAN-LHR is a large contributor of GVA in the North West because of it's premium mix and use by overseas visitors. The same thing is emerging on LBA-LHR too. But what about Liverpool, Teesside, Blackpool etc - they are effectively denied access. Is that useful for attracting inward investment and stimulating their economies ?
To me at least, it's not an 'either / or' question. Northern cities should have fast and regular access into LHR, either by air or rail. This will contribute to economic activity and over time increase the propensity to fly across the North of England. MAN will benefit from a more prosperous and economically active North as a result.
Like all campaigns, there's an element of truth and an element of marketing. It was true in the 90s to say that certain markets and routes would only work from MAN in the North just as it's true to say today that on a national level there are routes that are only commercially viable form LHR.
It's also true to say that the economic value of a UK route into LHR is significant at the 'regional end' of the route. MAN-LHR is a large contributor of GVA in the North West because of it's premium mix and use by overseas visitors. The same thing is emerging on LBA-LHR too. But what about Liverpool, Teesside, Blackpool etc - they are effectively denied access. Is that useful for attracting inward investment and stimulating their economies ?
To me at least, it's not an 'either / or' question. Northern cities should have fast and regular access into LHR, either by air or rail. This will contribute to economic activity and over time increase the propensity to fly across the North of England. MAN will benefit from a more prosperous and economically active North as a result.
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Rest assured I was NOT trying trivialise Ebola or indeed turn it into a North South argument but in any other country the message would be rammed home that ALL border entry points regardless of geography, should be under the same critetia not a select few.
As you state 90% of traffic is coming through LHR LGW Eurostar so therefore 10% might permutate through other points of entry, shall we say it again ....that's 10% !
As you state 90% of traffic is coming through LHR LGW Eurostar so therefore 10% might permutate through other points of entry, shall we say it again ....that's 10% !
Join Date: Aug 2007
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On the theme of Airport City the initial marketing suggested this would be the largest building site in the UK, is it me or have they put all the spades away ?
My understanding is that the new car park at the end of Ringway Rd needs to open allowing the car parks on the Airport City site to close. We'll then see a period of road and utility works (further to the works on Ringway Rd that have already happened) to create the basic infrastructure to support the buildings. Then we'll see the buildings start to rise.
It will be a slow process....
My understanding is that the new car park at the end of Ringway Rd needs to open allowing the car parks on the Airport City site to close. We'll then see a period of road and utility works (further to the works on Ringway Rd that have already happened) to create the basic infrastructure to support the buildings. Then we'll see the buildings start to rise.
It will be a slow process....
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Re: Heathrow Article
Nothing to see here. LHR spokesman talks up London Heathrow.
However, Mr Matt Gorman, if LHR is considered so crucial to Lancashire businesses maybe you could have a word with that airline which regularly cancels our connecting Shuttles to/from the place. You know, the company which gets our foreign competitors to their meetings on time but leaves Lancashire business travellers stranded. You know the one. Thanks for that.
Of course, if Lancashire business travellers book an airline via a hub which doesn't have the MAN flight at the top of their 'cancel' list, maybe they'd actually get to the meeting on time as well!
Now … where are MY heart pills!
However, Mr Matt Gorman, if LHR is considered so crucial to Lancashire businesses maybe you could have a word with that airline which regularly cancels our connecting Shuttles to/from the place. You know, the company which gets our foreign competitors to their meetings on time but leaves Lancashire business travellers stranded. You know the one. Thanks for that.
Of course, if Lancashire business travellers book an airline via a hub which doesn't have the MAN flight at the top of their 'cancel' list, maybe they'd actually get to the meeting on time as well!
Now … where are MY heart pills!
Join Date: Jan 2013
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On the subject of 'MAN vs London, I have found out whats holding up Hainan. Stansted.
Basically, MAG used a 'double airport' incentive, whereby it was a lower, flat rate for Hainan to serve both MAN/STN.
It seems on the surface, everything is ready to go, but, it now seems that for the London flights, LGW were not prepared to give in so easy, and thus some last minute negotiations are needed.
Apparently the MAN flights are safe and STN has still got the edge over LGW, however, MAG are really interested in 'doing the double', hence the wait.
Seems like some peoples fears are being realised (ei MAN flights going through, then MAG dangling STN in front of the airlines too)
Basically, MAG used a 'double airport' incentive, whereby it was a lower, flat rate for Hainan to serve both MAN/STN.
It seems on the surface, everything is ready to go, but, it now seems that for the London flights, LGW were not prepared to give in so easy, and thus some last minute negotiations are needed.
Apparently the MAN flights are safe and STN has still got the edge over LGW, however, MAG are really interested in 'doing the double', hence the wait.
Seems like some peoples fears are being realised (ei MAN flights going through, then MAG dangling STN in front of the airlines too)
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Seems like some peoples fears are being realised (ei MAN flights going through, then MAG dangling STN in front of the airlines too)
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Of course, if Lancashire business travellers book an airline via a hub which doesn't have the MAN flight at the top of their 'cancel' list, maybe they'd actually get to the meeting on time as well!
Now … where are MY heart pills!
Now … where are MY heart pills!
3.4 OSLO (GARDERMOEN)
3.5 STOCKHOLM (ARLANDA)
5.1 SINGAPORE
5.5 AMSTERDAM
5.8 COPENHAGEN
5.9 FRANKFURT MAIN
5.9 MUNICH
7.2 PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE)
8.2 ISTANBUL
8.9 WASHINGTON (DULLES)
9.5 ABU DHABI INTERNATIONAL
9.9 DOHA
12.8 HEATHROW
12.8 NEW YORK (NEWARK)
13.0 ZURICH
13.6 NEW YORK (JF KENNEDY)
15.6 CHICAGO (O'HARE)
16.4 PHILADELPHIA INTERNATIONAL
18.8 DUBAI
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If this is your opinion, then one assumes you have completely discounted the theory that the attractiveness of a UK deal to serve two airports was what brought them to MAG in the first place. Something you might want to explore with your sources in more detail
Its not necessarily my opinion, but, its not exactly a great position for MAN as a standalone unit to be waiting on STN. Would it have been a lot smoother had MAG not brought STN, its all speculation and we will never know.
My comment was purely aimed at the fact this is the first time MAN has 'relied' on another airport to get its flight also. Nothing more.
Its not necessarily my opinion, but, its not exactly a great position for MAN as a standalone unit to be waiting on STN. Would it have been a lot smoother had MAG not brought STN, its all speculation and we will never know.
My comment was purely aimed at the fact this is the first time MAN has 'relied' on another airport to get its flight also. Nothing more.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I think you will find that MAN has been talking to Hainan for a few years, i.e before STN came on the MAG scene. My guess is that STN were brought to the table fairly late, perhaps only when the new bilateral was agreed, but I wonder whether LGW were already in contention for the London flights which is perhaps what LAX is suggesting.
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Seems like some peoples fears are being realised (ie MAN flights going through, then MAG dangling STN in front of the airlines too)
Dangling ? .....I could think of another term. It won't be dangling it will be incentivising on behalf of the greater good of the Group is that what they call it Skip ?
If they are doing this with Hainan it is almost 100% certain that the same type of thing is happening with other airlines.
What kind of market do we now operate ?
"buy one (Manchester) get one (Stansted) free".
Personally, (only my opinion) I'm appalled, although i'm sure Skippy will immediately suggest that's how business operates, i'm sure it is and no doubt our local shareholders will not give a damn who operates where as long as they get their nice slice of that lucrative divi'.
On a commercial level yes, of course I'm sure it all makes complete and perfect sense, but sorry I make no apologies.
STN might contribute to economies of scale blah, blah, blah but it contributes not one iota of worth to the options for the travelling public in the North Of England although I am sure the present management would provide P+Ls and a Balance Sheet that will tell a different story.
As Jim Royal might say
"Stansted ? ............................My ****"
Dangling ? .....I could think of another term. It won't be dangling it will be incentivising on behalf of the greater good of the Group is that what they call it Skip ?
If they are doing this with Hainan it is almost 100% certain that the same type of thing is happening with other airlines.
What kind of market do we now operate ?
"buy one (Manchester) get one (Stansted) free".
Personally, (only my opinion) I'm appalled, although i'm sure Skippy will immediately suggest that's how business operates, i'm sure it is and no doubt our local shareholders will not give a damn who operates where as long as they get their nice slice of that lucrative divi'.
On a commercial level yes, of course I'm sure it all makes complete and perfect sense, but sorry I make no apologies.
STN might contribute to economies of scale blah, blah, blah but it contributes not one iota of worth to the options for the travelling public in the North Of England although I am sure the present management would provide P+Ls and a Balance Sheet that will tell a different story.
As Jim Royal might say
"Stansted ? ............................My ****"
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I would have thought from an overall commercial and geographical standpoint, LGW would be more attractive to Hainan than STN. And in any case, would they simply be waiting for slots at LHR, or is that airport not available to them under the bilateral?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I would be deeply concerned if Hainan's incentives for operating ex-MAN were directly linked to a clause requiring the continuation of services ex-STN. A new long-haul service is a high risk undertaking at any airport including MAN and failure is always a possibility (see: FlyNas). However, STN in particular has a dismal record in sustaining long-haul schedules. This is largely due to the airport's proximity to the competing offerings ex-LHR (and to a lesser extent LGW). In STN's case the LHR factor has not gone away which would make a Hainan service there particularly high risk IMO. And that begs the question: if Hainan Airlines eventually chose to withdraw from STN, would they forfeit a linked package of incentives supporting their operation ex-MAN? I sincerely hope that this conundrum is never allowed to arise.
If MAG can attract Hainan Airlines to STN on its own merits, fair play to them. But please keep the terms of the MAN arrangements non-dependent on the airline sustaining its presence at STN.
If MAG can attract Hainan Airlines to STN on its own merits, fair play to them. But please keep the terms of the MAN arrangements non-dependent on the airline sustaining its presence at STN.
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Hasn't it been tried more than once, long haul full fare airlines from STN just haven't worked ?.
Whether there is the demand for extra sched flights to Beijing from the south is also debatable.
Looking at the CAA stats LHR-Beijing have trodden water in recent months, up about 1% last month for example.
Add to this Air China chopping the 1st class from its LHR flights , can Hainan make a profit from STN.
If MAG bought STN to build on long haul full fare they may be disappointed ?
Nigel
Whether there is the demand for extra sched flights to Beijing from the south is also debatable.
Looking at the CAA stats LHR-Beijing have trodden water in recent months, up about 1% last month for example.
Add to this Air China chopping the 1st class from its LHR flights , can Hainan make a profit from STN.
If MAG bought STN to build on long haul full fare they may be disappointed ?
Nigel
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And in any case, would they simply be waiting for slots at LHR, or is that airport not available to them under the bilateral?
Hainan are not permitted to serve LHR under the '1 airline per route' rule imposed on the Chinese carriers.
This also means that one Hainan starts MAN, that's it, we won't be able to deal with Air China or the likes on Beijing.
Hainan are not permitted to serve LHR under the '1 airline per route' rule imposed on the Chinese carriers.
This also means that one Hainan starts MAN, that's it, we won't be able to deal with Air China or the likes on Beijing.
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One other point to ponder !
What would members of the Chinese Forum think if there were some linkage ?
Was this not an exclusive membership of Mancunian business, not aware there were any members based in Essex.
What would members of the Chinese Forum think if there were some linkage ?
Was this not an exclusive membership of Mancunian business, not aware there were any members based in Essex.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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LHR Press release
Bagso is so going to love this one, only LHR can save us :
Heathrow - Press releases - Only Heathrow can connect North and Western Lancashire businesses to emerging markets
Bagso is so going to love this one, only LHR can save us :
Heathrow - Press releases - Only Heathrow can connect North and Western Lancashire businesses to emerging markets
Obviously the majority of cities will only link to one UK airport, particularly in the BRIC countries and the other up-and-coming countries with which the UK needs to develop new trade links.
So yes, irrespective of the amount of longhaul routes that can be brought to Ringway (and the more the better obviously), links to Heathrow will always be needed. Think Mr Tenray was rightly hinting that flights between Speke and Heathrow would also be beneficial to Lancashire.
No need for heart pills, it's not either/or.
Wait a minute.
That article / press release.....
Quote: Heathrow is now the largest port in the UK in terms of freight handled End Quote
Really?
Wouldn't that be Felixstowe?
That article / press release.....
Quote: Heathrow is now the largest port in the UK in terms of freight handled End Quote
Really?
Wouldn't that be Felixstowe?
re the LHR campaign, this really is no different to the campaign that we used here in the 90s to promote R2. "Only Manchester Can Save The North" wasn't the strap line, but it might as well have been. There's oodles of runway capacity in the North and to persuade the public that digging up the Cheshire countryside was necessary meant the case needed to be made that capacity in Liverpool and Leeds wasn't the right sort of capacity or in the right place. This is no different to the LHR campaign of today.
Like all campaigns, there's an element of truth and an element of marketing. It was true in the 90s to say that certain markets and routes would only work from MAN in the North just as it's true to say today that on a national level there are routes that are only commercially viable form LHR.
Like all campaigns, there's an element of truth and an element of marketing. It was true in the 90s to say that certain markets and routes would only work from MAN in the North just as it's true to say today that on a national level there are routes that are only commercially viable form LHR.
It's also true to say that the economic value of a UK route into LHR is significant at the 'regional end' of the route. MAN-LHR is a large contributor of GVA in the North West because of it's premium mix and use by overseas visitors. The same thing is emerging on LBA-LHR too. But what about Liverpool, Teesside, Blackpool etc - they are effectively denied access. Is that useful for attracting inward investment and stimulating their economies ?
To me at least, it's not an 'either / or' question. Northern cities should have fast and regular access into LHR, either by air or rail. This will contribute to economic activity and over time increase the propensity to fly across the North of England. MAN will benefit from a more prosperous and economically active North as a result.
Hasn't it been tried more than once, long haul full fare airlines from STN just haven't worked ?.
Whether there is the demand for extra sched flights to Beijing from the south is also debatable.
Looking at the CAA stats LHR-Beijing have trodden water in recent months, up about 1% last month for example.
Add to this Air China chopping the 1st class from its LHR flights , can Hainan make a profit from STN.
If MAG bought STN to build on long haul full fare they may be disappointed ?
Nigel
Whether there is the demand for extra sched flights to Beijing from the south is also debatable.
Looking at the CAA stats LHR-Beijing have trodden water in recent months, up about 1% last month for example.
Add to this Air China chopping the 1st class from its LHR flights , can Hainan make a profit from STN.
If MAG bought STN to build on long haul full fare they may be disappointed ?
Nigel
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Why all the negativity about the possible Hainan Airlines MAN/STN deal?
I don't think it's going to endanger MAN in any way. They could just as easily axe MAN if it didn't work for them. If there's a financial deal or package for Hainan to use both MAN and STN then that will help secure them at both airports for a longer term future. That is only going to be beneficial to the MAG group and indeed for Hainan Airlines.
Please also remember that STN has and still is seeing quite a few changes since it was released from "the dead hands of the BAA monopoly" as MOL quite nicely puts it (who's airline just as an extra point is now also the largest at MAN). Also, in fairness to STN, much of it's long-haul operations were operated by carriers who went bust at the start of the economic crisis.
It's not that there's not enough demand for long-haul from STN believe me! No airline under BAA's monopoly whereby competition was restricted with LHR could make STN profitable. Maybe the new ownership might just solve that issue.
Of course nothing is confirmed yet, but if they do announce MAN and STN flights, that is in no way a threat or of any disappointment to MAN.
I don't think it's going to endanger MAN in any way. They could just as easily axe MAN if it didn't work for them. If there's a financial deal or package for Hainan to use both MAN and STN then that will help secure them at both airports for a longer term future. That is only going to be beneficial to the MAG group and indeed for Hainan Airlines.
Please also remember that STN has and still is seeing quite a few changes since it was released from "the dead hands of the BAA monopoly" as MOL quite nicely puts it (who's airline just as an extra point is now also the largest at MAN). Also, in fairness to STN, much of it's long-haul operations were operated by carriers who went bust at the start of the economic crisis.
It's not that there's not enough demand for long-haul from STN believe me! No airline under BAA's monopoly whereby competition was restricted with LHR could make STN profitable. Maybe the new ownership might just solve that issue.
Of course nothing is confirmed yet, but if they do announce MAN and STN flights, that is in no way a threat or of any disappointment to MAN.
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I note your views, FRatSTN. And I have acknowledged that long-haul services can fail at MAN too. If STN does secure Hainan, good luck to them. But NO linked (co-dependent) incentive packages, please. I stand by every word I wrote in post #4323
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If STN is the reason for the delay on Beijing it will be a bit off if STN gets daily and MAN 4 pw.
Also I received an email from MAN this morning advertising flights to Beijing not on Hainan Airlines but AF via CDG.
Also I received an email from MAN this morning advertising flights to Beijing not on Hainan Airlines but AF via CDG.
