MANCHESTER - 9

[pwalhx]

Is it not also the case with the switch from the 747 to the 777 on the LHR/HKG route even with the addition of the 5th flight the net increase in seats is negligible.

[spannersatcx]

pwalhx, I believe so.

Turin can't answer your pm as:-

TURIN has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.!

[Skipness One Echo]

I think the fifth flight is being operated by a B77W with no F cabin and the CX257 goes up from an A343 to a B744 / B77W. However I am surprised they're not looking at MAN again, it's overdue.

[LAX_LHR]

However I am surprised they're not looking at MAN again, it's overdue

Its frustrating to know that there is obviously cargo demand (why else would you send 3-4 B747F's per week) with the 2nd largest Chinese population in Europe (allegedly), and its constantly touted that MAN-HKG is one of the largest connection routes for EK/LH/BA and AF ex-MAN, yet CX could not be less interested if they tried.

[spannersatcx]

There's plenty of cargo to go out, the problem is there is no demand HKG-MAN (europe) and for that reason the flts are cancelled.

LHR as far as I know is all 777's, or it will very soon be.

The problem is yield, not enough, to compete with the middle eastern carriers you need a cheap to operate, fuel efficient a/c, hence the 350 when it arrives, and then still no guarentee then.

[pwalhx]

Demand for Cargo space always drops this time of year, during CNY and the month following.

[Suzeman]

There's plenty of cargo to go out, the problem is there is no demand HKG-MAN (europe) and for that reason the flts are cancelled.

Interesting

Before the financial crisis, the majority of freight at MAN on CX was from Asia TO Europe, so a compete reversal in 5 years or so. But the impact of Chinese New Year always depresses demand anyway

[spannersatcx]

Originally Posted by Suzeman

Interesting

Before the financial crisis, the majority of freight at MAN on CX was from Asia TO Europe, so a compete reversal in 5 years or so. But the impact of Chinese New Year always depresses demand anyway

Agreed, however this all started long before CNY and is continuing long after.

[BHX5DME]

2012 International Routes

DUBAI 692,126 up 8.51
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 674,328 up 0.46
AMSTERDAM 669,681 up 9.36
PALMA DE MALLORCA 648,066 down -4.99
DUBLIN 590,432 up 5.39
ALICANTE 491,843 down -13.81
MALAGA 487,697 up 7.58
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 483,017 up 9.20
DALAMAN 422,386 down -6.62
SHARM EL SHEIKH (OPHIRA) 354,041 up 13.74
FARO 350,240 up 3.59
ORLANDO 338,672 up 2.11
FRANKFURT MAIN 317,741 down -2.34
MUNICH 304,722 up 0.04
ABU DHABI INTERNATIONAL 289,492 up 26.24
ARRECIFE 288,798 down -9.88
PAPHOS 284,014 down -2.87
DOHA 245,882 up 7.89
IBIZA 238,784 up 17.40
ZURICH 238,527 down -20.67
COPENHAGEN 233,954 up 8.26
LARNACA 209,083 down -20.81
LAS PALMAS 178,299 up 4.25
ANTALYA 171,044 down -16.20
MALTA 168,977 down -0.37
CANCUN 168,047 up 1.19
PHILADELPHIA INTERNATIONAL 158,659 down -3.23
DUSSELDORF 158,468 up 9.32
MAHON 153,911 down -8.84
ISLAMABAD 152,314 down -12.97
BRUSSELS 147,685 down -6.79
SANFORD 145,933 up 1.44
GENEVA 144,878 down -3.43
BODRUM (MILAS) 138,864 down -20.80
BARCELONA 137,321 up 37.28
HERAKLION 136,160 up 0.64
FUERTEVENTURA 135,478 down -9.36
HAMBURG 134,192 down -0.96
BUDAPEST 130,238 up 43.51
ISTANBUL 129,436 up 39.28
MADRID 128,598 up 116.05
ATLANTA 126,041 down -2.64
CORFU 114,672 down -4.15
ENFIDHA 114,313 up 98.39
NEW YORK (JF KENNEDY) 114,114 down -15.43
CHARLEROI 113,855 up 769.19
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 112,971 down -34.60
CHICAGO (O'HARE) 112,169 up 13.56
MURCIA SAN JAVIER 110,449 up 37.54
GIRONA 108,470 up 332.43
VENICE 107,929 up 46.05
RHODES 104,943 up 14.97
HELSINKI 103,827 down -10.39
ROME (FIUMICINO) 103,432 up 0.80
BERGAMO 102,365 up 563.59
SINGAPORE 101,651 up 11.83
STOCKHOLM (ARLANDA) 97,358 up 9.87
BRIDGETOWN 94,302 down -8.20
ROME (CIAMPINO) 93,651 up 845.97
TORONTO 93,607 down -5.22
LAS VEGAS 91,148 up 19.90
ZAKINTHOS 89,418 up 3.34
PRAGUE 89,417 down -9.86
REUS 87,178 up 20.74
HURGHADA 86,766 up 14.19
CORK 78,956 up 12.36
OSLO (GARDERMOEN) 77,651 up 56.24
MILAN (MALPENSA) 77,126 up 31.57
MARRAKESH 76,657 up 9.35
KOS 68,112 down -8.13
BERLIN (SCHONEFELD) 66,407 up 343.51
KEFALLINIA 65,175 down -0.96
DUBROVNIK 58,003 up 103.31
WASHINGTON (DULLES) 57,187 up 55421.36
BURGAS 56,860 up 0.02
SHANNON 56,213 up 10.52
LISBON 55,613 up 22.50
SOFIA 55,188 up 7.42
VERONA VILLAFRANCA 54,957 up 31.85
ATHENS 54,036 down -25.63
FUNCHAL 53,206 down -25.82
BOA VISTA (RABIL) 51,447 up 26.03
GOA 50,727 down -12.85
NAPLES 50,597 up 11.91
RYGGE 50,584 up 750.58
LAHORE 50,483 down -11.98
COLOGNE BONN 49,207 down -4.31
HOLGUIN (FRANK PAIS) 46,600 up 12.70
BILBAO 46,409 up 114.10
MEMMINGEN ALLGAU 43,553 up 441.70
TEL AVIV 42,722 up 3.26
BEAUVAIS 41,738 up 447.31
IZMIR (ADNAM MENDERES) 40,532 up 5.90
HANOVER 40,077 up 16.35
PISA 39,484 up 9.43
GIBRALTAR 39,397 down -28.98
KEFLAVIK 39,379 up 21.42
PREVEZA 39,302 down -2.65
PUERTO PLATA 38,917 down -9.90
BREMEN 38,288 up 488.50
INNSBRUCK 37,815 up 3.41
CALGARY 37,203 down -22.33
GRENOBLE 37,167 down -4.88
SKIATHOS 36,477 up 5.72
AGADIR 36,358 up 35.55
MONTEGO BAY 34,915 down -32.95
BERLIN (TEGEL) 34,847 n/a
PUNTA CANA 34,563 down -44.51
SALZBURG 34,473 down -4.57
RZESZOW 32,878 up 568.52
VARADERO 32,390 down -28.93
STUTTGART 32,051 up 45.42
KATOWICE 30,958 up 702.85
VANCOUVER 30,380 down -11.77
LUXOR 29,263 down -25.44
BANJUL 28,864 down -12.53
BASLE MULHOUSE 28,390 down -34.93
CHAMBERY 28,148 down -4.83
HAHN 27,802 up 334.00
NICE 27,683 down -22.42
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 26,041 down -35.23
CHANIA 23,608 down -5.36
BILLUND 23,312 up 5.22
VALENCIA 22,724 up 1337.32
ILHA DO SAL C.VERDE 22,228 down -2.89
TURIN 21,895 up 10.24
TOURS 21,605 n/a
TOULOUSE (BLAGNAC) 20,730 down -22.83
CUNAGUA (CAYO COCO) 19,987 down -33.26
THIRA (SANTORINI) 19,619 up 0.80
GOTEBORG 19,406 down -68.56
TALLIN 19,312 n/a
NANTES 18,534 down -10.47
BEZIERS 17,954 n/a
SANTA CRUZ DE LA PALMA 17,698 up 114.73
BIARRITZ 16,726 n/a
PULA 16,601 up 46.08
DHAKHA 16,029 up 499.21
KITTILA 15,446 up 7.66
BERGEN 14,627 up 9276.28
SALONIKA 13,928 down -31.92
WATERFORD 13,756 down -3.18
ANTWERP 13,562 down -51.25
MONASTIR 12,414 down -65.84
LYON 12,314 up 7.64
CATANIA (FONTANAROSSA) 11,734 up 6.90
MODLIN MASOVIA 11,726 n/a
ARUBA 11,181 up 3.03
MYTILINI 9,588 down -47.09
ALMERIA 9,517 down -79.82
KAVALA 8,949 up 18.75
KALAMATA 8,681 up 5.47
JERBA 8,523 down -43.87
TABA 8,339 down -49.98
SANTA CLARA 7,635 down -1.42
MALE INTERNATIONAL 7,585 down -67.91
TUNIS 7,573 n/a
SPLIT 7,556 down -0.17
SAMOS 6,987 down -1.45
PORTO SANTO 6,492 n/a
MIKONOS 6,124 down -15.18
VARNA 5,791 down -7.28
TRIPOLI 5,673 up 83.65
BASTIA 5,171 up 17.20
IVALO 5,101 down -14.73
RIGA 4,796 n/a
LIEIDA 4,672 up 1298.80
TARBES-LOURDES INTERNATIONAL 4,515 down -66.60
LJUBLJANA 4,483 down -15.35
ROVANIEMI 3,974 down -10.80
GDANSK 3,873 up 1817.33
OPORTO (PORTUGAL) 3,839 up 1693.93
VOLOS 3,757 n/a
AARHUS (TIRSTRUP) 3,313 n/a
VITORIA 2,925 n/a
MARSA ALAM 2,834 down -82.31
ENONTEKIO 2,817 up 53.26
RENNES 2,563 down -26.88
LA ROCHELLE 2,537 down -0.86
MINSK INT'L 2,494 up 7.73
KARACHI 2,243 up 261.77
CALVI 2,115 n/a
CAGLIARI (ELMAS) 1,950 up 21.95
JEDDAH 1,910 down -36.82
OLBIA 1,839 n/a
WARSAW 1,321 n/a
MEDINA 1,062 up 155.90
ZARAGOZA 842 n/a
KRAKOW 609 down -28.60
KIRUNA 593 n/a
TROMSOE 574 n/a
ISTANBUL (SABIHA GOKCEN) 557 up 60.52
SYDNEY 475 n/a
FRIEDRICHSHAFEN 455 n/a
DORTMUND 425 up 89.73
PERPIGNAN 350 down -98.07
MALMO 344 down -26.65
BUCHAREST (BANEASA) 282 n/a
VAASA 235 n/a
OSTEND 162 n/a
CASABLANCA MOHAMED V 137 n/a
LEIPZIG 124 n/a
NAIROBI 111 n/a
SHANGHAI (PU DONG) 102 n/a
BRAUNSCHWEIG 93 n/a
LINZ 80 n/a
OSTERSUND / FROSON 80 down -94.34
KUALA LUMPUR (SEPANG) 78 n/a
GRAZ 75 down -51.30
NUREMBERG 69 n/a
BEIJING 63 down -69.86
MUNSTER-OSNABRUCK 49 down -95.87
CAEN 38 n/a
OVDA 12 down -84.21

[pwalhx]

Agreed, however this all started long before CNY and is continuing long after.

Speaking as someone working in the forwarding industry, I repeat what I have said before. Importers and Exporters are trying harder to make sure they can ship by sea as it is cheaper and with the pressure on the bottom line they need to avoid the higher costs of flying freight.

So yes this was going on before CNY and will carry on for sometime yet until the economy improves.

Freight in general is down as we are told monthly and I would be surprised if this changes in the near future. It is not solely a factor on the HKG route. However it will always drop in the couple of months after CNY as it has done historically.

[chaps2011]

Airport city building work to start next month, infrastructure work on roads etc to start in April plus all the tram work looks as if the north side of airfield is going to be a giant building site for years to come
News / MIPIM 2013: Stansted deal 'just the start' says MAG THEBUSINESSDESK.COM
All very positive and looks as if the airport has a very rosy future


Chaps

[Suzeman]

Agreed, however this all started long before CNY and is continuing long after.

Speaking as someone working in the forwarding industry, I repeat what I have said before. Importers and Exporters are trying harder to make sure they can ship by sea as it is cheaper and with the pressure on the bottom line they need to avoid the higher costs of flying freight.

Indeed. You only have to look at the overall decline in flown freight at MAN over the last few years

[Mr A Tis]

CX have let the Middle Eastern carriers get a foothold in & have relied on BA to ship their pax to LHR to help fill their now 5 rotations.
If freight is struggling so much, would it not make it more viable / sense to operate a a pax aircraft ? A decent freight load on a pax aircraft would negate the need for a half empty B744F & stem the loss of pax to other operators, without impacting on their LHR ops.
But like others have said, they (CX) appear to have little interest north of London & I doubt the A350 will have any impact on that thought. I assume the B744Fs only appear here because they can't get enough slots in LHR.

[Skipness One Echo]

But like others have said, they (CX) appear to have little interest north of London

It depends, if Cathay serve Hong Kong direct from MAN they have a one stop service onto Oz and such, however serving LHR/HKG is restricting the attractiveness to Hong Kong itself as it's one more stop to connect on versus the Unholy Trinity of EK/QR/EY. Key point is can they make money going back into the MAN market against such a behemouth on connections or are they content to serve only Hong Kong with a BA connection? It's not about bravado or "being interested", it's about fighting a battle against an entrenched competitor with bottomless petro-pockets.

Even the mighty SQ took enough of a hit to introduce as less than useful one stop via MUC service to try and balance the books better. Would CX fare any better?

[ManofMan]

One of the reasons Cathay struggle so much with freight these days is their prices are astronomical !! Air New Zealand and QF pulling has just given CX a further stranglehold on the direct market, so expect the prices to get even higher, as I mentioned last month, agent after agent are taking the decision to not use CX, something must give.

[Ringwayman]

Far East exports from Northwest England boom

"Sales to China rocketed by nine per cent to £1.6bn, making it the north west's biggest market behind the EU and US.

When taking into account exports to Greater China – which includes Taiwan and Hong Kong – the figure rose to more than £2bn."

How are these exports being transported?

[crewmeal]

How are these exports being transported?

Probably clogging up the M56/M6 and roads around LHR and all routes to Dover!

[european130]

Article about Thai Airways from Yahoo News

U.K. and Ireland General Manager Khun Wit Kitchathorn for Thai Airways was talking about the A380 being used into Heathrow from later this year, and that he wants more frequency into the UK, quote:

More Frequencies

London may even support four daily frequencies if the aircraft deployed including smaller Boeing 777 planes, Kitchathorn said. A service to Manchester is another option.

[Skipness One Echo]

Given Thai put the A340 into LHR as they were bleeding business, and that's gone back to the B744 with the A380 to follow, it's business as usual. Cut out the middle man and just set fire to a large pile of cash. Bit of a badly run outfit alas.

[LAX_LHR]

Thai Airways have been 'interested in Manchester' for as long as I can remember. They will likely be only 'interested in Manchester' for a long time yet.