MANCHESTER - 9
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I maintain four daily is daft if you can get them all on three bigger aircraft 
The B757 is in it's twilight years so I would imagine ORD B772, PHL A333 plus a.n.other, I would suspect B763 on JFK would be the way forward. Looks like a capacity gap if they're already full so early. Let's wait and see, I still want to shoot some of the B757s before they all go with the seagull trapped in letterbox livery. (I actually like it a lot)
The B757 is in it's twilight years so I would imagine ORD B772, PHL A333 plus a.n.other, I would suspect B763 on JFK would be the way forward. Looks like a capacity gap if they're already full so early. Let's wait and see, I still want to shoot some of the B757s before they all go with the seagull trapped in letterbox livery. (I actually like it a lot)
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Are you also going to censor Fairdeal and his one man "women" crusade for a four runway Heathrow project on every thread including this one ?
No disrespect to those views btw.
No disrespect to those views btw.
Think it may already have happened.
Pity, there were some important and relevant points in it.
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Postings such as my own, and those of Bagso, Skipness, FDF, LAX-LHR, LN-KGL and many others do not just magically appear. These more involved submissions require knowledge borne of in-depth research, professional expertise and considerable time invested in acquiring that. If we are to invest our precious time contributing to these discussions in good faith (and in a wholly respectful manner), then it it is most disappointing to find our postings abruptly deleted because a moderator disagrees with the views expressed. I have to tell you that I contribute a great deal of valuable time in doing my bit to help make PPRuNe the vibrant resource that it has become. You moderators are the law, but frequent contributors are the lifeblood and soul of the site.
I will do my best to respect the rules of the forum (as I always have) … respectful exchanges with those who hold different opinions, no foul language, no abuse. I am happy to continue informing, educating and answering questions across the PPRuNe forums where my years in the industry have afforded me the insights to do so. This effort and time I happily contribute free of charge. In turn, I appreciate the opportunity to learn from the expertise of others and bounce ideas off them.
Bagso, FDF, Skipness, LN-KGL, LAX-LHR and so many others similarly donate their time and professional expertise to PPRuNe discussions. However, if one finds respectful and entirely relevant postings randomly deleted by the invisible hand, it becomes difficult to maintain the enthusiasm to contribute. Can the time and effort required still be justified? Please be careful not to kill the geese.
I will do my best to respect the rules of the forum (as I always have) … respectful exchanges with those who hold different opinions, no foul language, no abuse. I am happy to continue informing, educating and answering questions across the PPRuNe forums where my years in the industry have afforded me the insights to do so. This effort and time I happily contribute free of charge. In turn, I appreciate the opportunity to learn from the expertise of others and bounce ideas off them.
Bagso, FDF, Skipness, LN-KGL, LAX-LHR and so many others similarly donate their time and professional expertise to PPRuNe discussions. However, if one finds respectful and entirely relevant postings randomly deleted by the invisible hand, it becomes difficult to maintain the enthusiasm to contribute. Can the time and effort required still be justified? Please be careful not to kill the geese.
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Skip - How would placing extra capacity out of say JFK, substitute for a chopped and apparently successful service out of Charlotte, currently a major US Air hub ?
Are the pax using this new service not coming from the region itself or at least a number of local commuter services OR would they be coming from right across the Southern States ?
I'm not being facetious btw way i'm just interested in your thinking ?
If its a general capacity issue USA - UK you could in effect put a service on from pretty much anywhere or increase frequency and it would presumably do well ?
PLUS as I have been saying for sometime "if" it becomes hugely successful rather than simply being pulled does it not get somebody somewhere within the new organisation changing their mindset ?
Either way great news...... AND "praise be" its being marketed !
Only my opinion but one wonders what may have happened had we had the following adverts
re Facebook/Twitter/website /Email call etc
....in the "pre booking stage", rather than after the service actually arrives ?
anyway some good advertising via the US Air feeds. (I wonder what or indeed who could possibly have spurred them into action
)
http://www.usairways.com/en-US/trave...newslink_21197
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other news re Manchester
Surge in passengers from BRICs
Tourism data shows surge in BRIC tourists to Greater Manchester - Manchester Evening News
Surge in Passengers from everywhere else
Manchester Airport passenger numbers to soar past the 22m mark - Manchester Evening News
The latter still seems to have the whiff of a self congratulatory puff piece, as the promotion of routes still seems adhoc, random
and fragmented ?
Absolutely fantastic stuff "on the road" with the Chinese currently especially re links to MUFC but what about say Egyptair, TAP, Transat and a few of the others ?
The marketing gaps are filling up but at times the speed of delivery can be glacial.
It needs people with the same relentless passion and enthusiasm we see channeled in one area used across not one BUT EVERY single route to every single follower using every single possible outlet.............otherwise well done 7/10
Are the pax using this new service not coming from the region itself or at least a number of local commuter services OR would they be coming from right across the Southern States ?
I'm not being facetious btw way i'm just interested in your thinking ?
If its a general capacity issue USA - UK you could in effect put a service on from pretty much anywhere or increase frequency and it would presumably do well ?
PLUS as I have been saying for sometime "if" it becomes hugely successful rather than simply being pulled does it not get somebody somewhere within the new organisation changing their mindset ?
Either way great news...... AND "praise be" its being marketed !
Only my opinion but one wonders what may have happened had we had the following adverts
re Facebook/Twitter/website /Email call etc
....in the "pre booking stage", rather than after the service actually arrives ?
anyway some good advertising via the US Air feeds. (I wonder what or indeed who could possibly have spurred them into action
)http://www.usairways.com/en-US/trave...newslink_21197
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other news re Manchester
Surge in passengers from BRICs
Tourism data shows surge in BRIC tourists to Greater Manchester - Manchester Evening News
Surge in Passengers from everywhere else
Manchester Airport passenger numbers to soar past the 22m mark - Manchester Evening News
The latter still seems to have the whiff of a self congratulatory puff piece, as the promotion of routes still seems adhoc, random
and fragmented ?
Absolutely fantastic stuff "on the road" with the Chinese currently especially re links to MUFC but what about say Egyptair, TAP, Transat and a few of the others ?
The marketing gaps are filling up but at times the speed of delivery can be glacial.
It needs people with the same relentless passion and enthusiasm we see channeled in one area used across not one BUT EVERY single route to every single follower using every single possible outlet.............otherwise well done 7/10
Last edited by Bagso; 10th Jun 2014 at 10:34.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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The US majors reprioritise their hubs after a merger like this. Some will win, some will lose, some might close. Delta used to hub at CVG, offering flights to LGW, as did Continental from CLE to LHR/LGW. Most of the traffic is connecting on elsewhere which meant it could be accomodated over the remaining hubs fairly easily. Delta out of MSP is not as big on long haul as NWA wa out of their home base.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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I maintain four daily is daft if you can get them all on three bigger aircraft
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Yes lets move all the Heathrow TA flights to JFK and have 1 every 10 minutes
a guy I work with was over the moon when I told him of the Charlotte service as his family live there and saves
having to go through that awful JFK
Ian
a guy I work with was over the moon when I told him of the Charlotte service as his family live there and saves
having to go through that awful JFK
Ian
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Its been reported on the BBC that UA EWR-BFS is being cut for 9 weeks from 9th Jan-11th March.
It also reports MAN has been cut during this period, although all flights remain bookable at this time and seem to be 'unconfirmed'.
DUB thread reports both DUB-IAD and DUB-EWR are being cut for 9 weeks.
If this is true for MAN too, I would be astounded and very worried.
The loads (and at a glance yield) were reported as strong to excellent last winter, and this will leave us with just 7 flights a week on a B757 to JFK.
What also confuses me, and, before I get jumped on this is not meant as any disrespect to BHX, just an observation, but, BHX has traditionally been cut to 5 weekly the past 2 winters, yet no word this is suspended. So, how MAN looses 2 routes over this period against a route that traditionally gets cut back, all sounds quite strange and I can't quite get my head around what has apparently gone so very, very wrong?
Even more baffling MAN is potentially about to be completely cut from the UA network for 9 weeks, yet Delta are staying daily this winter instead of going down to 5/6 weekly as winters past (and using the ever so slightly larger A330-200 instead of B767), and AA looking to use the B767 on ORD all winter. Why such strong confidence at 2 airlines but a stark cutback at another?
It also reports MAN has been cut during this period, although all flights remain bookable at this time and seem to be 'unconfirmed'.
DUB thread reports both DUB-IAD and DUB-EWR are being cut for 9 weeks.
If this is true for MAN too, I would be astounded and very worried.
The loads (and at a glance yield) were reported as strong to excellent last winter, and this will leave us with just 7 flights a week on a B757 to JFK.
What also confuses me, and, before I get jumped on this is not meant as any disrespect to BHX, just an observation, but, BHX has traditionally been cut to 5 weekly the past 2 winters, yet no word this is suspended. So, how MAN looses 2 routes over this period against a route that traditionally gets cut back, all sounds quite strange and I can't quite get my head around what has apparently gone so very, very wrong?
Even more baffling MAN is potentially about to be completely cut from the UA network for 9 weeks, yet Delta are staying daily this winter instead of going down to 5/6 weekly as winters past (and using the ever so slightly larger A330-200 instead of B767), and AA looking to use the B767 on ORD all winter. Why such strong confidence at 2 airlines but a stark cutback at another?
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LAX-LHR.
Perhaps you answer your own question.
If Delta are not cutting theirs back this winter as before, then this may have forced Uniteds hand, if during this period yield is marginal.
BHX only goes down to 5 a week for 1 winter month and is 6 a week for the rest. BHX is not mentioned in the press article but could easily get suspended also.
Not sure Ive heard of a US carrier suspend services for just 9 weeks before ?
Nigel
Perhaps you answer your own question.
If Delta are not cutting theirs back this winter as before, then this may have forced Uniteds hand, if during this period yield is marginal.
BHX only goes down to 5 a week for 1 winter month and is 6 a week for the rest. BHX is not mentioned in the press article but could easily get suspended also.
Not sure Ive heard of a US carrier suspend services for just 9 weeks before ?
Nigel
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I believe it may be maintainance issues with B763 causing the B757 fleet
to be redistributed for a short period. United has a problem in that many of the fleet are now quite aged.
to be redistributed for a short period. United has a problem in that many of the fleet are now quite aged.
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Re United:
The BBC report 12 hours ago included this:
"Earlier, United Airlines also announced it will suspend some transatlantic flights from Dublin, Rome and Manchester in the same period"
Has anyone traced that announcement? It also refers to "some" t/a flights.
Does that imply all flights or just a reduction in frequency?
Like LAX LHR, if the story is true and complete, it is very puzzling if some other UK routes are surviving for that 9 week period. Is MAN really considered the weakest in terms of profitability? On the occasions I've looked on the web site, United's fares are usually more expensive than AA to New York and often dearer for connecting destinations than other US carriers. Checks on specific flights a day or so before suggest there is little or no availability in Business Class.
Sadly over the years, I've found that Bad News stories often prove to be true, while Good News rumours tend to take longer to come to fruition, if indeed they happen at all. Still, there's been a lot of positive developments recently so I guess some negatives are almost inevitable. Suspending both MAN flights for 9 weeks would however be pretty drastic if it happens, and some regular business customers may not easily be won back.
The BBC report 12 hours ago included this:
"Earlier, United Airlines also announced it will suspend some transatlantic flights from Dublin, Rome and Manchester in the same period"
Has anyone traced that announcement? It also refers to "some" t/a flights.
Does that imply all flights or just a reduction in frequency?
Like LAX LHR, if the story is true and complete, it is very puzzling if some other UK routes are surviving for that 9 week period. Is MAN really considered the weakest in terms of profitability? On the occasions I've looked on the web site, United's fares are usually more expensive than AA to New York and often dearer for connecting destinations than other US carriers. Checks on specific flights a day or so before suggest there is little or no availability in Business Class.
Sadly over the years, I've found that Bad News stories often prove to be true, while Good News rumours tend to take longer to come to fruition, if indeed they happen at all. Still, there's been a lot of positive developments recently so I guess some negatives are almost inevitable. Suspending both MAN flights for 9 weeks would however be pretty drastic if it happens, and some regular business customers may not easily be won back.
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Crikey - all a bit gloomy.
Quote: "Earlier, United Airlines also announced it will suspend some transatlantic flights from Dublin, Rome and Manchester in the same period"
Where does it say in those few words that United are cutting MAN out of its network for the winter? It just doesn't. Where does it say EWR? It doesn't - people seem to have read a negative story about BFS and because that is a EWR service have done a 2+2=5.
First of all Manchester has two United transatlantic routes EWR and IAD - the latter of which was reduced last winter anyway. The words 'suspend some transatlantic flights' could easily be construed to mean a reduction in frequency as in 'suspending the Tues/Weds flights'.
Let's get some perspective.
Quote: "Earlier, United Airlines also announced it will suspend some transatlantic flights from Dublin, Rome and Manchester in the same period"
Where does it say in those few words that United are cutting MAN out of its network for the winter? It just doesn't. Where does it say EWR? It doesn't - people seem to have read a negative story about BFS and because that is a EWR service have done a 2+2=5.
First of all Manchester has two United transatlantic routes EWR and IAD - the latter of which was reduced last winter anyway. The words 'suspend some transatlantic flights' could easily be construed to mean a reduction in frequency as in 'suspending the Tues/Weds flights'.
Let's get some perspective.
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Quote: "The words 'suspend some transatlantic flights' could easily be construed to mean a reduction in frequency as in 'suspending the Tues/Weds flights'"
All Names Taken, that was exactly the question I was raising, as the wording is ambiguous. Apologies If I sounded too gloomy but I did acknowledge the very positive developments recently, (not least the CX announcement).
Anyway, let's see what the final outcome is with United. The suggestion that cut-backs on whichever routes relate to B767 maintenance with some 757's being redeployed sounds plausible and logical, but if it is the case, the choice of which services lose out is certainly of interest.
All Names Taken, that was exactly the question I was raising, as the wording is ambiguous. Apologies If I sounded too gloomy but I did acknowledge the very positive developments recently, (not least the CX announcement).
Anyway, let's see what the final outcome is with United. The suggestion that cut-backs on whichever routes relate to B767 maintenance with some 757's being redeployed sounds plausible and logical, but if it is the case, the choice of which services lose out is certainly of interest.
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MANFOD
Sorry, wasn't specifically referencing you, just the general tone of the whole discussion on the subject.
My money would be on a cut to the IAD - not a huge deal if the EWR remains - similar connections and the train takes you from EWR airport directly to Union Stn in downtown DC, if that's your final destination.
In any case low season temporary cutback - it happens everywhere.
Sorry, wasn't specifically referencing you, just the general tone of the whole discussion on the subject.
My money would be on a cut to the IAD - not a huge deal if the EWR remains - similar connections and the train takes you from EWR airport directly to Union Stn in downtown DC, if that's your final destination.
In any case low season temporary cutback - it happens everywhere.
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What also confuses me, and, before I get jumped on this is not meant as any disrespect to BHX, just an observation, but, BHX has traditionally been cut to 5 weekly the past 2 winters, yet no word this is suspended. So, how MAN looses 2 routes over this period against a route that traditionally gets cut back, all sounds quite strange and I can't quite get my head around what has apparently gone so very, very wrong?
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Can only offer that Icelandair launch BHX during that period; can't see UA
wanting to give a new player in the market such a significant advantage
wanting to give a new player in the market such a significant advantage
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a guy I work with was over the moon when I told him of the Charlotte service as his family live there and saves
having to go through that awful JFK
having to go through that awful JFK
If this is true for MAN too, I would be astounded and very worried.
Not sure Ive heard of a US carrier suspend services for just 9 weeks before ?
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 12th Jun 2014 at 12:24.
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Quote:
"Everyone has "some guy I know" who uses a flight 'cos it's near his house. It is not business practice to undertake route planning on that metric however"
That's a bit harsh Skip. The original poster wasn't suggesting that route planning was done on that basis; merely pointing out he had a happy colleague who was grateful for a convenient non-stop flight rather than having to change at JFK.
"Everyone has "some guy I know" who uses a flight 'cos it's near his house. It is not business practice to undertake route planning on that metric however"
That's a bit harsh Skip. The original poster wasn't suggesting that route planning was done on that basis; merely pointing out he had a happy colleague who was grateful for a convenient non-stop flight rather than having to change at JFK.
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Only a guess on my part but UA have a large corporate contract out of Brum that is taking business class seats on most flights, if Brum is not being cut back which is by no means certain it would not surprise me if it's to apease this specific contract.
Bagso - in terms of the marketing for the Charlotte flight or lack thereof it was being advertised heavily around the Midlands right through the winter, as was the Saudia services, they were MAG billboards rather than the airline. As a perception MAG are very good at marketing themselves around here and very good at marketing new routes - you shouldn't always be so hard on them.
Bagso - in terms of the marketing for the Charlotte flight or lack thereof it was being advertised heavily around the Midlands right through the winter, as was the Saudia services, they were MAG billboards rather than the airline. As a perception MAG are very good at marketing themselves around here and very good at marketing new routes - you shouldn't always be so hard on them.
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Dont suppose anyone has any thoughts on the chances of one of these 'European' Airports being Manchester.
International flights starting in 2015 could be announced for T.F. Green this month | Breaking News | providencejournal.com | The Providence Journal
I remember the days of there being a direct flight to Boston from Manchester and T F Green being 'just down the road' from Boston it would be nice to see the route back.
International flights starting in 2015 could be announced for T.F. Green this month | Breaking News | providencejournal.com | The Providence Journal
I remember the days of there being a direct flight to Boston from Manchester and T F Green being 'just down the road' from Boston it would be nice to see the route back.
