MANCHESTER - 9
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US734/735 route
I have a relative on the US735 flight tomorrow to PHL. It looks like the US734 on 2nd was delayed and the US735 only left today with big delay. The flight to PHL today also scheduled to be 5 hours late, but incoming flight seemed to be on time. Anyone know any details?
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December pax up 5%
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/4CA66B1CDD0CE07A80257AE9004C950D/$File/December+12.pdf
Once again Domestic, International scheduled and Charter all up in December.
Movements & freight were down.
2012 Passengers - 19,841,236 up 4.48%
I would imagine some happy bunnies!
Pete
If the link won't open just cut and paste into your address bar.
Once again Domestic, International scheduled and Charter all up in December.
Movements & freight were down.
2012 Passengers - 19,841,236 up 4.48%
I would imagine some happy bunnies!
Pete
If the link won't open just cut and paste into your address bar.
Last edited by OltonPete; 4th Jan 2013 at 20:13. Reason: Link did not work
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I would imagine some happy bunnies!
With constraints at LHR Manchester should really be going for it !
There seems to be too much reliance on the airlines themselves!
OK would be great to see another EK A380, possibility of pure EK cargo , plus extra Etihad and THY, but the return in other areas is still feeble!
With constraints at LHR Manchester should really be going for it !
There seems to be too much reliance on the airlines themselves!
OK would be great to see another EK A380, possibility of pure EK cargo , plus extra Etihad and THY, but the return in other areas is still feeble!
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With constraints at LHR Manchester should really be going for it !
There seems to be too much reliance on the airlines themselves!
There seems to be too much reliance on the airlines themselves!
The Airport provides the facilities and the climate for the airlines to operate and "sells" this to the airlines in a number of ways. It also works on the Government to get rid of the regulatory constraints such as bilaterals which constrain some airlines from doing what they want at MAN.
It's then up to the airlines to decide what to do and what is best for them bearing in mind that there loads of other airports touting for their business and they only have limited resources.
In the last couple of years MAN has experienced a resurgence of traffic, so someone must be doing a decent job, especially in the current economic climate.
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Of course they are "going for it" - it's just that "it" is no longer an ego trip about being an overflow for Heathrow. Getting in Ryanair & Easyjet brings in punters that spend in the shops and car parks and reduces or elimates capacity at competing airports. MAN is a natural 2nd choice for people that would consider LPL or LBA their 1st choice, If these people can't fly locally they come to MAN and spend in car parks and even hotels in a way that folks coming from Stockport clearly don't ! At the last count, MAN is getting something like £15 - £20 per passenger from people coming from outside of Greater Mcr and the combined opportunity of passengers using other Northern airports is about 10m. 10m x £20 = £200m to get at, per year, or £1bn over 5 years. Going for this, is a much more sensible strategy than wasting time trying to persuade BA or Virgin to develop a 2nd operating hub which quite obvioulsy they have no interest in.
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And what makes you think that MAN are not "really going for it"?
Suzeman I know you support MAN as I do, but I just think there is always room for improvement. Increasing the "national" profile, taking advantage of constraints down South and making sure there is optimisation of MAN long haul flights.
Despite Manchester perhaps being the largest employer direct or indirectly in the North of England projection through the national media still seems woeful, to me at least.
As an example when BAE, Sainsburys etc etc announce annual reports/figures they use it as a media opportunity to sell their services, we seldom here from the airport other than press releases in The Manchester Evening News. We hear about the mantra "20m pax inside 90 minutes" but all I am saying is surely more could be done to fly the flag and use opportunities like the release of annual figures to shout out the success and what Manchester offers.
I'm sure like you, you have google alerts set to "Manchester Airport" but bulletins in terms of new routes appear limited to a purely mancunian audience.
In terms of LHR we all know it's about extra runways at LHR, LGW or a new airport in the Thames but Manchester could take adavantage could it not....? MAG seem to think so ....
I read on another forum that in November the Government transport select committee sat to hear representations from indutry and interested parties on this UK "Wide" aviation review. CEOs from LHR LGW STN as well as airlines leaders attended, I checked the minutes myself, but where was Manchester...OK we all know its about LHR but if it is a "UK wide review" lets get our voice heard.
This was especially galling when in my view there was disproportionate representation by HACAN, RSPB, Stop Stansted etc CRUCIALLY at the same time.
OK they deserve to be heard but if they have platform on the top table why not Manchester ?
Hopefully MAN will get chance down the line BUT personally I think they should have been banging the table to be in attendance at that hearing, either it's a UK review or it isnt.
If we do appear in the future I suspect we will be included with BHX. GLA etc which simply reinforces the perception of being merely another regional airport.
We all know the Governement pays lip service to "regionals" this simply mean MANs potential contribution is totally lost, despite that fact it could handle another 20m pax NOW!
One other point the airports OWN ticketing portal has also come in for criticism and one can see why. On the one hand we have senior management wanting more long haul flights but then offering a means of booking which is loaded to cheapest price.
Cheapest usually means the offer of a connection VIA AMS, CDG FRA etc so our direct flights are there, but rely on the viewer making some fairly precise choices to track them down as they are lost in a fog of cheaper deals.
The same web site engine is used at other regional airports and is always geared to the "lowest common price denominator". That fine for them as they don't have a significant raft of direct flights they are trying to promote.
By contrast the LHR ticketing portal isvery much geared to LHR> XYZ first and price second.......
Suzeman I know you support MAN as I do, but I just think there is always room for improvement. Increasing the "national" profile, taking advantage of constraints down South and making sure there is optimisation of MAN long haul flights.
Despite Manchester perhaps being the largest employer direct or indirectly in the North of England projection through the national media still seems woeful, to me at least.
As an example when BAE, Sainsburys etc etc announce annual reports/figures they use it as a media opportunity to sell their services, we seldom here from the airport other than press releases in The Manchester Evening News. We hear about the mantra "20m pax inside 90 minutes" but all I am saying is surely more could be done to fly the flag and use opportunities like the release of annual figures to shout out the success and what Manchester offers.
I'm sure like you, you have google alerts set to "Manchester Airport" but bulletins in terms of new routes appear limited to a purely mancunian audience.
In terms of LHR we all know it's about extra runways at LHR, LGW or a new airport in the Thames but Manchester could take adavantage could it not....? MAG seem to think so ....
I read on another forum that in November the Government transport select committee sat to hear representations from indutry and interested parties on this UK "Wide" aviation review. CEOs from LHR LGW STN as well as airlines leaders attended, I checked the minutes myself, but where was Manchester...OK we all know its about LHR but if it is a "UK wide review" lets get our voice heard.
This was especially galling when in my view there was disproportionate representation by HACAN, RSPB, Stop Stansted etc CRUCIALLY at the same time.
OK they deserve to be heard but if they have platform on the top table why not Manchester ?
Hopefully MAN will get chance down the line BUT personally I think they should have been banging the table to be in attendance at that hearing, either it's a UK review or it isnt.
If we do appear in the future I suspect we will be included with BHX. GLA etc which simply reinforces the perception of being merely another regional airport.
We all know the Governement pays lip service to "regionals" this simply mean MANs potential contribution is totally lost, despite that fact it could handle another 20m pax NOW!
One other point the airports OWN ticketing portal has also come in for criticism and one can see why. On the one hand we have senior management wanting more long haul flights but then offering a means of booking which is loaded to cheapest price.
Cheapest usually means the offer of a connection VIA AMS, CDG FRA etc so our direct flights are there, but rely on the viewer making some fairly precise choices to track them down as they are lost in a fog of cheaper deals.
The same web site engine is used at other regional airports and is always geared to the "lowest common price denominator". That fine for them as they don't have a significant raft of direct flights they are trying to promote.
By contrast the LHR ticketing portal isvery much geared to LHR> XYZ first and price second.......
Last edited by Bagso; 6th Jan 2013 at 11:05.
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We all know the Governement pays lip service to "regionals" this simply mean MANs potential contribution is totally lost, despite that fact it could handle another 20m pax NOW!
MAN is the LHR of the local area in that it dominates and sucks in traffic from the catchement areas of LPL / LBA / NCL / GLA even, and it got the infrastructure in place to grow. It's not a serious contention that STN needs to grow or indeed SEN or even LCY by much, strategically it's LHR / LGW market driven growth driver we're trying to get kick started with more capacity.
trying to persuade BA or Virgin to develop a 2nd operating hub which quite obvioulsy they have no interest in.
LHR recently got a weekly EK B77F on a Saturday as they've gone all A380 now so wouldn't surprise me.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 6th Jan 2013 at 11:26.
I think people get hung up on the term 'regional'. It's a very British, non aviation term and simply means an airport outside London. In that sense, whilst LBA, LPL don't come anywhere close to MAN, MAN is still a regional airport in the strictest sense. I don't like the term either but I think many are associating the term with the size of an airfield/facility which is misguided.
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I would not recommend using the Airport Direct Travel's flight search engine on the Manchester Airport site to find tickets. As an example I've checked a one way flight from MAN to OSL on Monday 14 January, and out came a minimum price tag of £223. This same ticket can be bought on British Airways' website for £163 - in other words £60 cheaper than on the MAN site. Even cheaper offers you can get at Brussels Airlines' website with a price tag of £156 and the MAN site wanted £249 for the same ticket (£93 over price!). The two airlines that offer direct flights between the two cities suffer the same fate on the MAN site; Norwegian over priced with £75 and SAS over priced with the substantial amount of £133.
I can't understand that MAN even dare have such a poor service on their website. For one it creates bad PR but the worst part is that it fuels suspicions that MAN throughout is over priced.
I can't understand that MAN even dare have such a poor service on their website. For one it creates bad PR but the worst part is that it fuels suspicions that MAN throughout is over priced.
Last edited by LN-KGL; 6th Jan 2013 at 16:02.
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Despite Manchester perhaps being the largest employer direct or indirectly in the North of England projection through the national media still seems woeful, to me at least.
As an example when BAE, Sainsburys etc etc announce annual reports/figures they use it as a media opportunity to sell their services, we seldom here from the airport other than press releases in The Manchester Evening News.
As an example when BAE, Sainsburys etc etc announce annual reports/figures they use it as a media opportunity to sell their services, we seldom here from the airport other than press releases in The Manchester Evening News.
By comparison Manchester Airport is much less likely to attract national attention as it is a much smaller scale and its impact is relatively localised in UK terms. I'm sure MAN has good links with the local and national press, but for the latter (except specialist publications and websites) most MAN stories will be a low priority and may only be used as a filler on a slow news day if space permits.
It will be interesting to see what happens this week with the release of the annual traffic stats - the figures are on line but no press release yet.
I read on another forum that in November the Government transport select committee sat to hear representations from indutry and interested parties on this UK "Wide" aviation review. CEOs from LHR LGW STN as well as airlines leaders attended, I checked the minutes myself, but where was Manchester...OK we all know its about LHR but if it is a "UK wide review" lets get our voice heard.
This was especially galling when in my view there was disproportionate representation by HACAN, RSPB, Stop Stansted etc CRUCIALLY at the same time.
OK they deserve to be heard but if they have platform on the top table why not Manchester ?
Hopefully MAN will get chance down the line BUT personally I think they should have been banging the table to be in attendance at that hearing, either it's a UK review or it isnt.
If we do appear in the future I suspect we will be included with BHX. GLA etc which simply reinforces the perception of being merely another regional airport.
This was especially galling when in my view there was disproportionate representation by HACAN, RSPB, Stop Stansted etc CRUCIALLY at the same time.
OK they deserve to be heard but if they have platform on the top table why not Manchester ?
Hopefully MAN will get chance down the line BUT personally I think they should have been banging the table to be in attendance at that hearing, either it's a UK review or it isnt.
If we do appear in the future I suspect we will be included with BHX. GLA etc which simply reinforces the perception of being merely another regional airport.
Oral evidence - UK Parliament
I assume the transcript will appear soon for the 10th December as it has for the other hearings.
A lot of the influencing of the regulators to allow things to happen is done away from the gaze of the press, so just because you haven't seen something in the media doesn't mean that nothing is happening.
And please remember that Geoff Muirhead (ex CEO of MAG) is the ONLY AVIATION member of the 5 person Davies Commission on UK Airport capacity set up by the Government to kick a SE airport capacity decision into the long grass until after the next election.......
However, it is disappointing to read about the shortcomings of the Airport's ticketing portal - not good at all when you can book a direct flight for substantially less by going on the airline's website as LN-KGL has outlined.
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Suzeman:
However, it is disappointing to read about the shortcomings of the Airport's ticketing portal - not good at all when you can book a direct flight for substantially less by going on the airline's website as LN-KGL has outlined.
However, it is disappointing to read about the shortcomings of the Airport's ticketing portal - not good at all when you can book a direct flight for substantially less by going on the airline's website as LN-KGL has outlined.
Last edited by LN-KGL; 6th Jan 2013 at 21:56.
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Hi Suzeman
If there has been a hearing in December apologies , because it was missed at this end, but is that not the very essence of the argument ..?
I checked the first representations, these were up until the end of November, it was the FIRST one which was televised on the Parliament channel, infact the hearing can/could still be seen by video link on the minutes section.
Quite interesting !
I cannot recall off-hand but I "think" it was 23rd 24th, it was two back to back days when Willie Walsh , possibly Virgin, the CEOs of LHR, LGW and STN all had their day in court CRUCIALLY THEY WERE FIRST UP, I would expect nothing less in this country BUT hang on why the hell were then followed by a motley collection of environmentalists !
OK it is not the airports fault but these other organisations were called in first, clearly because there is a feeling that their case deserves to be heard.
..are HACAN, RSPB etc really shouting louder than Manchester ?
My view is that Manchester is as important as LHR, LGW STN in this debate so should be banging the drum as indeed it did in the 80s.
I don't get Why do we have to be so subservient ?
Surely somebody s/b saying.....
"look we have infastructure in place",
"we have demand"
"we have the population centre in the catchment area ",
" we have the thee best transport and domestic airlinks (twice as many as LHR and LGW), and whilst Manchester is NOT the answer to capacity in the South East it could alleviate some of the problems with some Government impetus".
I disagree with your analogy that a 5minute slot about "Pension Funds" and "The City" is the driver to a platform on BBC Breakfast, 5LiveMoney, WakeuptoMoney etc although maybe BAe and Sainsburys were poor examples, but there are plenty of other much, much smaller organisations than Manchester Airport that get good airtime...
is there a larger employer direct or otherwise in the North Of England ?
.... get on the phones to Declan Curry, Andrew Verity and sell how important this is !
It's about not accepting second or third best, or the fact that we somehow have to work within the framework that's dictated to us...
Its about turning round perceptions AND not accepting what you think you need to hear !
Inform them that 40,000 people are dependent on employment at Manchester,
20m people live within the catchment area,
AND thee largest building project since the Olympics is about to get underway etc etc...
...is that 3rd item really not newsworthy ?
To get your voice heard you need to bang on doors...... I do earnestly believe that eveyybody is doing there best, but there is just an impression that we are pusssyfooting about too much.
If they are banging on doors, well why not "let us know". Micheal O Leary would....
Charlie Cornish was unequivocal in his condemnation of BA in a press release in November , it was thee best statement from the airport in years !
Direct and to the point !
I appreciate a major organisation may not want to air dirty washing in public but nothing changes MPs attitudes like bad publicity, being nicey nicey will simply not work !
If there has been a hearing in December apologies , because it was missed at this end, but is that not the very essence of the argument ..?
I checked the first representations, these were up until the end of November, it was the FIRST one which was televised on the Parliament channel, infact the hearing can/could still be seen by video link on the minutes section.
Quite interesting !
I cannot recall off-hand but I "think" it was 23rd 24th, it was two back to back days when Willie Walsh , possibly Virgin, the CEOs of LHR, LGW and STN all had their day in court CRUCIALLY THEY WERE FIRST UP, I would expect nothing less in this country BUT hang on why the hell were then followed by a motley collection of environmentalists !
OK it is not the airports fault but these other organisations were called in first, clearly because there is a feeling that their case deserves to be heard.
..are HACAN, RSPB etc really shouting louder than Manchester ?
My view is that Manchester is as important as LHR, LGW STN in this debate so should be banging the drum as indeed it did in the 80s.
I don't get Why do we have to be so subservient ?
Surely somebody s/b saying.....
"look we have infastructure in place",
"we have demand"
"we have the population centre in the catchment area ",
" we have the thee best transport and domestic airlinks (twice as many as LHR and LGW), and whilst Manchester is NOT the answer to capacity in the South East it could alleviate some of the problems with some Government impetus".
I disagree with your analogy that a 5minute slot about "Pension Funds" and "The City" is the driver to a platform on BBC Breakfast, 5LiveMoney, WakeuptoMoney etc although maybe BAe and Sainsburys were poor examples, but there are plenty of other much, much smaller organisations than Manchester Airport that get good airtime...
is there a larger employer direct or otherwise in the North Of England ?
.... get on the phones to Declan Curry, Andrew Verity and sell how important this is !
It's about not accepting second or third best, or the fact that we somehow have to work within the framework that's dictated to us...
Its about turning round perceptions AND not accepting what you think you need to hear !
Inform them that 40,000 people are dependent on employment at Manchester,
20m people live within the catchment area,
AND thee largest building project since the Olympics is about to get underway etc etc...
...is that 3rd item really not newsworthy ?
To get your voice heard you need to bang on doors...... I do earnestly believe that eveyybody is doing there best, but there is just an impression that we are pusssyfooting about too much.
If they are banging on doors, well why not "let us know". Micheal O Leary would....
Charlie Cornish was unequivocal in his condemnation of BA in a press release in November , it was thee best statement from the airport in years !
Direct and to the point !
I appreciate a major organisation may not want to air dirty washing in public but nothing changes MPs attitudes like bad publicity, being nicey nicey will simply not work !
Last edited by Bagso; 7th Jan 2013 at 09:56.
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Quote: "I don't think Manchester Airport is seen as being quite as regional as you make out. The key issue is that MAN already has strategic growth infrastructure in place.
MAN is the LHR of the local area in that it dominates and sucks in traffic from the catchement areas of LPL / LBA / NCL / GLA even, and it got the infrastructure in place to grow. It's not a serious contention that STN needs to grow or indeed SEN or even LCY by much, strategically it's LHR / LGW market driven growth driver we're trying to get kick started with more capacity."
Quote: "I think people get hung up on the term 'regional'. It's a very British, non aviation term and simply means an airport outside London. In that sense, whilst LBA, LPL don't come anywhere close to MAN, MAN is still a regional airport in the strictest sense. I don't like the term either but I think many are associating the term with the size of an airfield/facility which is misguided."
Quote: "Its a bit like that monty python sketch where they are stood in a line
John Cleese is Heathrow.I look up to him because......"
MAN is much more than a regional airport, it is a major European airport along with the likes of LGW, ORY, NCE, DUB, BCN, MUC, CPH, BRU, ZRH, VIE, etc., perhaps a little lower in the pecking order than MUC.
As for LHR, it is in a different league altogether i.e. the small group of world international airports, along with (in Europe) AMS, CDG, FRA and MAD.
MAN is the LHR of the local area in that it dominates and sucks in traffic from the catchement areas of LPL / LBA / NCL / GLA even, and it got the infrastructure in place to grow. It's not a serious contention that STN needs to grow or indeed SEN or even LCY by much, strategically it's LHR / LGW market driven growth driver we're trying to get kick started with more capacity."
Quote: "I think people get hung up on the term 'regional'. It's a very British, non aviation term and simply means an airport outside London. In that sense, whilst LBA, LPL don't come anywhere close to MAN, MAN is still a regional airport in the strictest sense. I don't like the term either but I think many are associating the term with the size of an airfield/facility which is misguided."
Quote: "Its a bit like that monty python sketch where they are stood in a line
John Cleese is Heathrow.I look up to him because......"
MAN is much more than a regional airport, it is a major European airport along with the likes of LGW, ORY, NCE, DUB, BCN, MUC, CPH, BRU, ZRH, VIE, etc., perhaps a little lower in the pecking order than MUC.
As for LHR, it is in a different league altogether i.e. the small group of world international airports, along with (in Europe) AMS, CDG, FRA and MAD.
Regional in the UK simply means outside London. I.e situated in the regions. The term regional is not a term that describes the size of a facility though many misinterpret it as such. The term has traditionally been used extensively by the IT operators to promote the fact that they offer regional departures. MAN is a regional departure point.
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Sorry everyone - this goes on a bit 
Bagso old bean - no need whatsoever to get your knickers in a twist about this as there is NO BENEFIT in being first up. In fact coming up later can be an advantage as you may wish to refer to evidence from previous witnesses (which the MPs like because it shows you are taking it seriously). As a seasoned observer of this committee (and one time witness) although some years ago, the hearings are generally arranged on themed lines so they can ask questions pertinent to the group. Usually 3,4 or 5 witnesses at a time grouped around the same type of business and only 30-45 minutes for each group.
In such a short timescale ,would you really want a Manchester witness to appear with all the London crowd? The Manchester message would get swamped by all the disagreements about what to do in London and the SE itself - just watch the video or read the transcript! Whilst I've not seen the video with MAN in as it won't load on my PC and the transcript is not yet available, I'm sure the message about the role airports outside London can play would come over loud and clear in the hearing Manchester was involved in as all the witnesses apart from NATS were from airports outside the SE.
The process is as follows
Interested parties submit written evidence
Transport Committee pledges to scrutinise the Government
and the Committee then decide which parties to interview.
All hearings are televised and transcripts published
Oral evidence - UK Parliament
So who has been giving oral evidence?
First hearing was on 19 November 2012
Witnesses: Sian Foster, General Manager, Government & External Relations, Virgin Atlantic Airways, Paul Simmons, UK Director, easyJet, Simon Buck, Chief Executive, British Air Transport Association; - so airlines.
Then Michael O’Leary, Chief Executive Officer, Ryanair, Dale Keller, Chief Executive Officer, Board of Airline Representatives in the UK, Otto Grunow, Managing Director, Finance Europe and Pacific, American Airlines, and Malcolm Day, Sales & Marketing Manager, UK & Ireland, Air China; - so more airlines
Then Mark Tanzer, Chief Executive, Association of British Travel Agents, Andrew Cooper, Director, Government & External Affairs, Thomas Cook Group, and Eddie Redfern, Head of Regulatory Affairs (Aviation), TUI Travel PLC - so tour operators and IT airlines.
Next on Monday 3 December 2012
Witnesses: Colin Matthews, Chief Executive Officer, Heathrow Airport, Stewart Wingate, Chief Executive Officer, Gatwick Airport, Glyn Jones, Managing Director, Luton Airport, and Nick Barton, Managing Director, Stansted Airport; - so London Airports
and Tim Johnson, Director, Aviation Environment Federation, Anthony Rae, Friends of the Earth, John Stewart, Chair, HACAN, Brian Ross, Stop Stansted Expansion, and Peter Barclay, Vice-Chairman, Gatwick Area Conservation Campaign - so environmental organisations who have to be involved whether you like it or not as they have some valid points to make - and would cry foul if they did not get a hearing.
Tuesday 4 December 2012
Witness: Willie Walsh, Chief Executive Officer, British Airways
Monday 10 December 2012 - with timings
1605 - Witnesses: Andrew Haines, Chief Executive, Civil Aviation Authority, Simon Hocquard, Operational Strategy & Deployment Director, NATS, Richard Deakin, Chief Executive Officer, NATS; - so regulators and airspace policy.
1645 - Robert Sinclair, Chief Executive Officer, Bristol Airport Ltd, Paul Kehoe, Chief Executive Officer, Birmingham Airport, Andrew Harrison, Chief Operating Officer, Manchester Airports Group; so all regional airports or airports outside London if you prefer
1725 -Graeme Mason, Planning and Corporate Affairs Director, Newcastle International Airport Ltd, Craig Richmond, Chief Executive Officer, Peel Airports and Regional Executive, Vantage Airport Group, Derek Provan, Managing Director, Aberdeen Airport, Darren Caplan, Chief Executive, Airport Operators Association - more regional airports.
No transcript has yet been produced for this hearing, no doubt due to the holidays, but the video is here
Player
The next hearing is on 14 January 2013
4:05 pm
Subject: Aviation Strategy
Witness(es): Rhian Kelly CB, Director of Business Environment, Confederation of British Industry, Mike Spicer, Senior Policy Adviser, British Chamber of Commerce, Corin Taylor, Senior Economic Adviser, Institute of Directors, John Dickie, Director of Strategy and Policy, London First and Stuart Fraser, Deputy Chairman of Policy and Resources, City of London Corporation; - so national and London business associations.
Then Emma Antrobus, Policy Manager, Greater Mancheser Chamber of Commerce, Jerry Blackett, Chief Executive Officer, Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, Garry Clark, Head of Policy and Public Affairs, Scottish Chamber of Commerce and Paul Gilbert, Chairman, International Trade Committee, Liverpool Chamber of Commerce; - so regional business organisations
Then Christopher Snelling, Head of Urban Policy, Freight Transport Association, Andrew Walters, Chairman, London Biggin Hill Airport and Brandon O'Reilly, Chief Executive Officer, TAG Farnborough Airport - freight ad business aviation
All this info is available on the Transport Committee website
Transport Committee - UK Parliament
The Committee has an independent adviser who helps frame the questions they are looking at and the Committee publishes them in advance
Transport Committee pledges to scrutinise the Government
The independent adviser also assists the Committee in the formulation of the final report. Findings are reported to the Commons, printed, and published on the Parliament website. The government then usually has 60 days to reply to the committee's recommendations - and of course is not bound by the findings......
It certainly is - I think we just disagree how it is done - you want it all out in the open whereas what you have to do first is influence the policy makers and that is often best done initially away from the media gaze. Negotiating in public tends not to go down too well. If that doesn't work however, you can then resort to the media if necessary - such as the campaign to get Singapore A/L traffic rights many years ago.
Remind me what that is please?
I'm afraid when it comes to policy influencing, why should they let you or I know exactly what is going on?. If there needs to be public involvement, such as with the Airport's campaign on APD, we will find out. This is just what O'Leary does - he doesn't always negotiate in public - only when it suits when he doesn't get his way. And there is not much evidence to suggest he has been successful - in fact I suspect he has antagonised more policy makers than not, which means his ideas may well be given less weight.
And finally (thank goodness for that)
Being nicey, nicey to MPs DOES work. You see they are NOT the policy makers. The policy makers who you need to influence first of all are the Sir Humphreys of this world (in this case at the DfT) and the Government's special advisers. You need to get your viewpoint over when policy is being made, not after the event. When they go off piste on policy and do something detrimental to your business as sometimes happens, it is often pressure from MPs that can change things.
So keeping MPs on side is usually a sensible thing for businesses to do. For example how many MP's around the region supported the second runway? Or the MAG campaign to ease bilateral constraints? Without MPs "on side" putting pressure on the policy makers, some of the achievements of previous years might never have happened. And if they want, they can say that they have achieved something for their constituencies.
Also note that there are 3 MPs from Greater Manchester on the Committee, which means that the MAN viewpoint on aviation and airport strategy will be well known. Would you want them or your side or not?
Suzeman
I cannot recall off-hand but I "think" it was 23rd 24th, it was two back to back days when Willie Walsh , possibly Virgin, the CEOs of LHR, LGW and STN all had their day in court CRUCIALLY THEY WERE FIRST UP, I would expect nothing less in this country BUT hang on why the hell were then followed by a motley collection of environmentalists !
In such a short timescale ,would you really want a Manchester witness to appear with all the London crowd? The Manchester message would get swamped by all the disagreements about what to do in London and the SE itself - just watch the video or read the transcript! Whilst I've not seen the video with MAN in as it won't load on my PC and the transcript is not yet available, I'm sure the message about the role airports outside London can play would come over loud and clear in the hearing Manchester was involved in as all the witnesses apart from NATS were from airports outside the SE.
The process is as follows
Interested parties submit written evidence
Transport Committee pledges to scrutinise the Government
and the Committee then decide which parties to interview.
All hearings are televised and transcripts published
Oral evidence - UK Parliament
So who has been giving oral evidence?
First hearing was on 19 November 2012
Witnesses: Sian Foster, General Manager, Government & External Relations, Virgin Atlantic Airways, Paul Simmons, UK Director, easyJet, Simon Buck, Chief Executive, British Air Transport Association; - so airlines.
Then Michael O’Leary, Chief Executive Officer, Ryanair, Dale Keller, Chief Executive Officer, Board of Airline Representatives in the UK, Otto Grunow, Managing Director, Finance Europe and Pacific, American Airlines, and Malcolm Day, Sales & Marketing Manager, UK & Ireland, Air China; - so more airlines
Then Mark Tanzer, Chief Executive, Association of British Travel Agents, Andrew Cooper, Director, Government & External Affairs, Thomas Cook Group, and Eddie Redfern, Head of Regulatory Affairs (Aviation), TUI Travel PLC - so tour operators and IT airlines.
Next on Monday 3 December 2012
Witnesses: Colin Matthews, Chief Executive Officer, Heathrow Airport, Stewart Wingate, Chief Executive Officer, Gatwick Airport, Glyn Jones, Managing Director, Luton Airport, and Nick Barton, Managing Director, Stansted Airport; - so London Airports
and Tim Johnson, Director, Aviation Environment Federation, Anthony Rae, Friends of the Earth, John Stewart, Chair, HACAN, Brian Ross, Stop Stansted Expansion, and Peter Barclay, Vice-Chairman, Gatwick Area Conservation Campaign - so environmental organisations who have to be involved whether you like it or not as they have some valid points to make - and would cry foul if they did not get a hearing.
Tuesday 4 December 2012
Witness: Willie Walsh, Chief Executive Officer, British Airways
Monday 10 December 2012 - with timings
1605 - Witnesses: Andrew Haines, Chief Executive, Civil Aviation Authority, Simon Hocquard, Operational Strategy & Deployment Director, NATS, Richard Deakin, Chief Executive Officer, NATS; - so regulators and airspace policy.
1645 - Robert Sinclair, Chief Executive Officer, Bristol Airport Ltd, Paul Kehoe, Chief Executive Officer, Birmingham Airport, Andrew Harrison, Chief Operating Officer, Manchester Airports Group; so all regional airports or airports outside London if you prefer
1725 -Graeme Mason, Planning and Corporate Affairs Director, Newcastle International Airport Ltd, Craig Richmond, Chief Executive Officer, Peel Airports and Regional Executive, Vantage Airport Group, Derek Provan, Managing Director, Aberdeen Airport, Darren Caplan, Chief Executive, Airport Operators Association - more regional airports.
No transcript has yet been produced for this hearing, no doubt due to the holidays, but the video is here
Player
The next hearing is on 14 January 2013
4:05 pm
Subject: Aviation Strategy
Witness(es): Rhian Kelly CB, Director of Business Environment, Confederation of British Industry, Mike Spicer, Senior Policy Adviser, British Chamber of Commerce, Corin Taylor, Senior Economic Adviser, Institute of Directors, John Dickie, Director of Strategy and Policy, London First and Stuart Fraser, Deputy Chairman of Policy and Resources, City of London Corporation; - so national and London business associations.
Then Emma Antrobus, Policy Manager, Greater Mancheser Chamber of Commerce, Jerry Blackett, Chief Executive Officer, Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, Garry Clark, Head of Policy and Public Affairs, Scottish Chamber of Commerce and Paul Gilbert, Chairman, International Trade Committee, Liverpool Chamber of Commerce; - so regional business organisations
Then Christopher Snelling, Head of Urban Policy, Freight Transport Association, Andrew Walters, Chairman, London Biggin Hill Airport and Brandon O'Reilly, Chief Executive Officer, TAG Farnborough Airport - freight ad business aviation
All this info is available on the Transport Committee website
Transport Committee - UK Parliament
The Committee has an independent adviser who helps frame the questions they are looking at and the Committee publishes them in advance
Transport Committee pledges to scrutinise the Government
The independent adviser also assists the Committee in the formulation of the final report. Findings are reported to the Commons, printed, and published on the Parliament website. The government then usually has 60 days to reply to the committee's recommendations - and of course is not bound by the findings......
Its about turning round perceptions AND not accepting what you think you need to hear !
AND thee largest building project since the Olympics is about to get underway etc etc...
but there is just an impression that we are pusssyfooting about too much.If they are banging on doors, well why not "let us know". Micheal O Leary would....
And finally (thank goodness for that)
I appreciate a major organisation may not want to air dirty washing in public but nothing changes MPs attitudes like bad publicity, being nicey nicey will simply not work !
So keeping MPs on side is usually a sensible thing for businesses to do. For example how many MP's around the region supported the second runway? Or the MAG campaign to ease bilateral constraints? Without MPs "on side" putting pressure on the policy makers, some of the achievements of previous years might never have happened. And if they want, they can say that they have achieved something for their constituencies.
Also note that there are 3 MPs from Greater Manchester on the Committee, which means that the MAN viewpoint on aviation and airport strategy will be well known. Would you want them or your side or not?
Suzeman