MANCHESTER - 9
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
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rutankrd, it's only two hours time difference between HEL and MAN (Belarus is the only European country with three hours time difference to UK).
That the UK has elected to hold on to a different time zone than the main part of Europe will always make it more difficult for day trips to Europe. That UK also is placed close to the outer rim of Europe cause more time has to used for travel and adds to the agony. A one day meeting in Europe for the British almost always include the night before in a hotel at the destination.
There is a third hurdle for UK based business travelers out of MAN - the airport don't have a residing full service carrier. The airlines with based aircraft are LCCs and flying to impotant business destinations aren't part of their core business. Then there are the aircraft from foreign full service carriers staying the night over. They are all flying out in the first morning wave to Europe's large hubs and if you don't terminate at this airports it means lost time due to transfer and extra distance flown to reach your final destination.
For the European business travelers the extra hour is god sent and may make a day trip easier. But also here there a number buts.
The first but: Since MAN is a relative small destinations and many of the foreign carriers need feed in to its hub to fill a MAN flight. Hence it don't fly out with the first morning wave, but more likely in a second wave after the first wave has arrived with the feed.
The second but: MAN has a reputation of not being the best airport to arrive to if you want to get quickly from the aircraft to a destination. To set a time for a meeting in the neighbourhood you need at least two hours after scheduled arrival to reach the meeting in time. If the destination is further afield this adds to the uncertainty with rental cars off site and train service being so and so (Manchester Picadilly is really chaotic).
The third but: With only 17% of the passengers at MAN being international business travelers and only 2 of 5 of these 17% are foreign business travelers, these passengers are far from being the core business for MAN. This is easy to notice being part of this small group. We want to spend as little time as possible at the airport, but at MAN this wish is not granted.
This reply started with HEL and MAN so let me close this with the same theme. Let's suppose there was an residing airline at MAN interested in flying to HEL. Their scheduled departure from MAN would be 07:00 local time. Then their arrival at HEL would be around 11:30 local time (2 hours time difference + 2 hours 30 minutes flying time). The earliest time for meeting in Helsinki city centre would be 12:30 (30 minutes to pass the Schengen border og get luggage + 30 minutes taxi ride to the city centre). Not much business to settle that day. It is much better to take an afternoon flight to HEL, stay the night at a hotel and start fresh the next morning (remember to get up two hours earlier than you usually do).
That the UK has elected to hold on to a different time zone than the main part of Europe will always make it more difficult for day trips to Europe. That UK also is placed close to the outer rim of Europe cause more time has to used for travel and adds to the agony. A one day meeting in Europe for the British almost always include the night before in a hotel at the destination.
There is a third hurdle for UK based business travelers out of MAN - the airport don't have a residing full service carrier. The airlines with based aircraft are LCCs and flying to impotant business destinations aren't part of their core business. Then there are the aircraft from foreign full service carriers staying the night over. They are all flying out in the first morning wave to Europe's large hubs and if you don't terminate at this airports it means lost time due to transfer and extra distance flown to reach your final destination.
For the European business travelers the extra hour is god sent and may make a day trip easier. But also here there a number buts.
The first but: Since MAN is a relative small destinations and many of the foreign carriers need feed in to its hub to fill a MAN flight. Hence it don't fly out with the first morning wave, but more likely in a second wave after the first wave has arrived with the feed.
The second but: MAN has a reputation of not being the best airport to arrive to if you want to get quickly from the aircraft to a destination. To set a time for a meeting in the neighbourhood you need at least two hours after scheduled arrival to reach the meeting in time. If the destination is further afield this adds to the uncertainty with rental cars off site and train service being so and so (Manchester Picadilly is really chaotic).
The third but: With only 17% of the passengers at MAN being international business travelers and only 2 of 5 of these 17% are foreign business travelers, these passengers are far from being the core business for MAN. This is easy to notice being part of this small group. We want to spend as little time as possible at the airport, but at MAN this wish is not granted.
This reply started with HEL and MAN so let me close this with the same theme. Let's suppose there was an residing airline at MAN interested in flying to HEL. Their scheduled departure from MAN would be 07:00 local time. Then their arrival at HEL would be around 11:30 local time (2 hours time difference + 2 hours 30 minutes flying time). The earliest time for meeting in Helsinki city centre would be 12:30 (30 minutes to pass the Schengen border og get luggage + 30 minutes taxi ride to the city centre). Not much business to settle that day. It is much better to take an afternoon flight to HEL, stay the night at a hotel and start fresh the next morning (remember to get up two hours earlier than you usually do).
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Manchester
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LN
Your assumptions over MAN ground transportation are all wrong
Rail very frequent 15-20 minutes to city centre and beyond
Taxis coming out of your ears, traffic pending as little as 20 mins to city centre.
Buses if you must, go over the place and soon trams
Car hire nice new pick up depot.
Airport next to motorway network
What more can an airport do ??
Your assumptions over MAN ground transportation are all wrong
Rail very frequent 15-20 minutes to city centre and beyond
Taxis coming out of your ears, traffic pending as little as 20 mins to city centre.
Buses if you must, go over the place and soon trams
Car hire nice new pick up depot.
Airport next to motorway network
What more can an airport do ??
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
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The public transport must be great MAN777 since as much as around 15% of the passengers are not using private transport to the airport.
The frequency of trains going in to Piccadilly is alright, but the speed isn't exactly breathtaking with 9 miles covered in between 14 and 22 minutes. The return to MAN from Piccadilly can be a gamble. With an information desk not knowing, staff on the platforms not knowing, information boards not saying anything about the train being on time or not or what platform it will go from, three trains per platform, and as I entered a train pointed out to me I noticed my seat ticket didn't match the one attached to the seat - the one on the seat said York. I did finally find my train. In stead of departing 24 minutes past the hour it was delayed and departed 43 minutes past the hour with me on board. Lucky enough I had many hours to my flight to LHR. I decided to take a taxi from the airport to visit friends at the RVP. I can't say this was a enjoyable ride. The cab driver had wished for a longer trip, ended up with my short and it was not difficult to pick up the bad vibes. I hope my tip learned him something. I did my thing at RVP and had to return to the terminal. I thought I had to test the 200 bus back to the airport. In the bus shed there was a fresh timetable. The scheduled departure passed without a bus showing up. 25 minutes late a bus finally arrived and drove us to the airport. Again I know MAN pretty well - it was still over 90 minutes to my departure with Little Red as I arrived T3 - more than enough time for afternoon tea on the inside, but there was the security check hurdle. 35 minutes queuing there reduced the time for tea to an espresso and an egg and bacon sandwich at Costa.
I've been a regular traveler to MAN for 12 years now. Sadly the changes over the years have not been to the better from a passenger's standpoint and compared with other UK airports (I have 45 other to compare with) MAN has lost ground.
The frequency of trains going in to Piccadilly is alright, but the speed isn't exactly breathtaking with 9 miles covered in between 14 and 22 minutes. The return to MAN from Piccadilly can be a gamble. With an information desk not knowing, staff on the platforms not knowing, information boards not saying anything about the train being on time or not or what platform it will go from, three trains per platform, and as I entered a train pointed out to me I noticed my seat ticket didn't match the one attached to the seat - the one on the seat said York. I did finally find my train. In stead of departing 24 minutes past the hour it was delayed and departed 43 minutes past the hour with me on board. Lucky enough I had many hours to my flight to LHR. I decided to take a taxi from the airport to visit friends at the RVP. I can't say this was a enjoyable ride. The cab driver had wished for a longer trip, ended up with my short and it was not difficult to pick up the bad vibes. I hope my tip learned him something. I did my thing at RVP and had to return to the terminal. I thought I had to test the 200 bus back to the airport. In the bus shed there was a fresh timetable. The scheduled departure passed without a bus showing up. 25 minutes late a bus finally arrived and drove us to the airport. Again I know MAN pretty well - it was still over 90 minutes to my departure with Little Red as I arrived T3 - more than enough time for afternoon tea on the inside, but there was the security check hurdle. 35 minutes queuing there reduced the time for tea to an espresso and an egg and bacon sandwich at Costa.
I've been a regular traveler to MAN for 12 years now. Sadly the changes over the years have not been to the better from a passenger's standpoint and compared with other UK airports (I have 45 other to compare with) MAN has lost ground.
Pilot of the Airwaves
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Car hire nice new pick up depot.
Car Hire Village is off airport and requires a free airport bus to get there. It has added considerable time to people's journeys. When wet, windy or both, walking to the buses involves being in the open at both ends of that journey. The facilities at the Car Hire Village do not lend themselves to the weather either. It is not a pleasant experience.
I'm afraid I have to agree, the car village is not user friendly at all. The trains to/from the airport are frequently delayed or cancelled at the last minute. Lack of real time information & multiple use of platforms at Piccadilly are also an obstacle to the unwary. I recently travelled all the way from Edinburgh to Manchester Airport on time all the way - only to stop about 500M from the Airport platform, where we waited for almost 20 minutes. The station Gents were locked shut, the waiting room overflowing & one poor guy in the cafe trying to serve about 30 customers.
Some buses, esp the 200 are severely affected by the metrolink tram works on Ringway Road.
One can only hope when the tram & station works are completed, some improved service & reliability will ensue.
Some buses, esp the 200 are severely affected by the metrolink tram works on Ringway Road.
One can only hope when the tram & station works are completed, some improved service & reliability will ensue.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I recently travelled all the way from Edinburgh to Manchester Airport on time all the way - only to stop about 500M from the Airport platform, where we waited for almost 20 minutes.
although after the "interesting" morning last Monday, things have been revised and I'm told the traffic is flowing more freely.If that was in the last couple of weeks, it's probably because one platform is closed to facilitate the building of the fourth platform. Capacity at the station is always on a knife edge and one little thing causing delay knocks on very quickly. The number of services have been cut to meet this platform capacity restraint but the above still applies. The timetable should return to normal in the first week of April.
Join Date: Jan 2014
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How do rail networks, cab drivers, bad weather (oh my days) and car villages make MAN a bad experience?
To me, it makes perfect sense for a Car Rental firm to have their base away from the main Airport, if for nothing else but added security? No brainer that one.
Some people seem to have a very distinct problem with MAN? - but all of what I have read is very fragile in their reasoning - a tad pathetic in some cases. MAN must get their weather generating satellite working again!
To me, it makes perfect sense for a Car Rental firm to have their base away from the main Airport, if for nothing else but added security? No brainer that one.
Some people seem to have a very distinct problem with MAN? - but all of what I have read is very fragile in their reasoning - a tad pathetic in some cases. MAN must get their weather generating satellite working again!
Well said NJJ. The same people who moan on here about delays caused by the current station expansion and metro construction would still be moaning if those infrastructure developments for the future were not going ahead. Some people just go out of their way to find fault.
And the Car Rental Village always works fine for me. It's far better than the previous arrangement where you had to find your way in a pee stained lift to a series of portacabins scattered across the windswept roof of a multistorey carpark.
The queues for immigration at Changi have been stretching to 30+ minutes on my last few arrivals there. Does that make Changi a bad airport ? I don't think so.
These days no airport of 20m+ passengers can be a perfect experience thanks to stricter security checks and all the other rules and regulations that go with 21st century air travel. In my experience whilst there is always room for improvement MAN is no worse than most comparable size airports, and way better than many I have used. It's got a great choice of destinations and airlines which is what I look for first in an airport, rather than stress about whether I will or won't have time for a coffee in Costa or if the taxi driver might be having a bad day.
And the Car Rental Village always works fine for me. It's far better than the previous arrangement where you had to find your way in a pee stained lift to a series of portacabins scattered across the windswept roof of a multistorey carpark.
The queues for immigration at Changi have been stretching to 30+ minutes on my last few arrivals there. Does that make Changi a bad airport ? I don't think so.
These days no airport of 20m+ passengers can be a perfect experience thanks to stricter security checks and all the other rules and regulations that go with 21st century air travel. In my experience whilst there is always room for improvement MAN is no worse than most comparable size airports, and way better than many I have used. It's got a great choice of destinations and airlines which is what I look for first in an airport, rather than stress about whether I will or won't have time for a coffee in Costa or if the taxi driver might be having a bad day.
Jeeesus! I only asked if there would be a nightstopping Finnair, I didn't expect a dissertation on the pros and cons of hub and spoke feeder traffic.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well said logohu.
As for the earlier claim of 2 hours from a/c on stand to city centre for a meeting, it would be a worse case scenario - a pax with bags to collect last off the belt say 1 hour; slow walk to the station 10 minutes; just missed a train and 1 train cancelled so a 20 minute wait (is it 7 or 8 trains an hour into Manchester?) and a 20 minutes ride. What's that, 1 hour 50 minutes? Or is our Norwegian friend adding on a tram ride to St. Peter's Square? And yes, I know, there have been instances where pax have waited longer than an hour for bags late at night but even with a 90 minutes wait, a taxi would get them into the city within 2 hours.
Best case scenario: No hold bags (not unusual for business types)); out of the airport in 15-20 minutes; brisk 5 mins walk to the station; train leaves in 5 minutes; 15 minutes on a fast train; into Piccadilly in 45 minutes.
I'm disappointed that LN-KGL has used a worse case as being typical to support his increasing criticism of MAN. Of course it's got its faults and I've not been slow to criticise the airport at times but let's keep a sense of perspective.
To schedule a meeting in the city centre, without bags to collect, 90 minutes from scheduled arrival should even allow him time for that much cherished coffee first.
As for the earlier claim of 2 hours from a/c on stand to city centre for a meeting, it would be a worse case scenario - a pax with bags to collect last off the belt say 1 hour; slow walk to the station 10 minutes; just missed a train and 1 train cancelled so a 20 minute wait (is it 7 or 8 trains an hour into Manchester?) and a 20 minutes ride. What's that, 1 hour 50 minutes? Or is our Norwegian friend adding on a tram ride to St. Peter's Square? And yes, I know, there have been instances where pax have waited longer than an hour for bags late at night but even with a 90 minutes wait, a taxi would get them into the city within 2 hours.
Best case scenario: No hold bags (not unusual for business types)); out of the airport in 15-20 minutes; brisk 5 mins walk to the station; train leaves in 5 minutes; 15 minutes on a fast train; into Piccadilly in 45 minutes.
I'm disappointed that LN-KGL has used a worse case as being typical to support his increasing criticism of MAN. Of course it's got its faults and I've not been slow to criticise the airport at times but let's keep a sense of perspective.
To schedule a meeting in the city centre, without bags to collect, 90 minutes from scheduled arrival should even allow him time for that much cherished coffee first.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
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MANFOD, you have to remember I'm one of the odd foreigners arriving at MAN - and for us the first hurdle is queuing in front of UK Border Control.
And with passengers from the arriving EK A380 directly in front of us, showing the passport takes time - long time.
If you are planning an important business meeting, arriving late is not an option.
And with passengers from the arriving EK A380 directly in front of us, showing the passport takes time - long time.
If you are planning an important business meeting, arriving late is not an option.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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LN-KGL, I would have thought a seasoned traveller like yourself would ensure you caught a flight that didn't arrive just behind our 1 x A380 a day!
I accept there can be delays at Border Control at certain times but then it means less wait for bags if you have them. And of course MAN does not control the staffing for Border / Immigration checks. All they can do is plead for extra staff or sensible rostering.
Out of interest, how much time would you allow for a scheduled meeting in London when landing at LHR or LGW?
I accept there can be delays at Border Control at certain times but then it means less wait for bags if you have them. And of course MAN does not control the staffing for Border / Immigration checks. All they can do is plead for extra staff or sensible rostering.
Out of interest, how much time would you allow for a scheduled meeting in London when landing at LHR or LGW?
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I would argue that given the fact that all passenger lists are supplied to UK border in advance and the fact that ALL EU citizens are legally entitled to enter unhindered (Unless there is a warrant out for them !) the UK Border are acting illogically checking every passport whether we are a Schengan signatory or not.
This is pure right wing politically xenophobia and pandering to the red top papers.
The real work of Borders happens elsewhere.
This is a UK own made problem.
With the level of personnel only random checks should be made on the EU/EEA queues , with focus on Non EU passports and those that require ViSAs.
Granny from Alicante is of NO interest to borders however may be to customs .
The UK frontiers are a mess because of political interference on day to day operations at the highest levels.
This is pure right wing politically xenophobia and pandering to the red top papers.
The real work of Borders happens elsewhere.
This is a UK own made problem.
With the level of personnel only random checks should be made on the EU/EEA queues , with focus on Non EU passports and those that require ViSAs.
Granny from Alicante is of NO interest to borders however may be to customs .
The UK frontiers are a mess because of political interference on day to day operations at the highest levels.
Last edited by rutankrd; 24th Mar 2014 at 14:23.
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LN-KGL
Thanks my mistake yes 3+ GMT summer that was my thinking.
Still the points remain and agree with your expanded comments.
We have for a few days a twice yearly national discussion about moving towards the Central European timezones then duly forget and move on !
Actually the one country that does cause a real problem for us business wise is Spain - they should be in the same timezone
Flying to Madrid and onto Badajoz as I regularly do takes me a full working day to complete !
rutankrd, it's only two hours time difference between HEL and MAN (Belarus is the only European country with three hours time difference to UK).
Still the points remain and agree with your expanded comments.
We have for a few days a twice yearly national discussion about moving towards the Central European timezones then duly forget and move on !
Actually the one country that does cause a real problem for us business wise is Spain - they should be in the same timezone
Flying to Madrid and onto Badajoz as I regularly do takes me a full working day to complete !
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
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I don't have any business meetings in London MANFOD, but our company has a subsidiary in the south west corner of Hampshire that I visit regularly. The obvious choice for a visit is a direct flight OSL-LHR, but I have had a number of other combinations like OSL-EDI-SOU, OSL-MAN-SOU, OSL-DUS-SOU and OSL-AMS-SOU. From arriving LHR to being parked up outside our facility it takes 3 hours if the M25 is in happy mood (the 4.2 miles can take hours if you have a gas leak in the neighbourhood) and if I allow my self a stop at either Fleet or Winchester Services along M3 for an espresso and a toilet visit. Public transport is really not an option to our Hampshire office as for many other locations in the UK.
At the other end it takes usually 55 minutes for me to get from our office situated at the west end of Oslo to the Non-Schengen gate for the flight to LHR, and that includes time to check in baggage, time to pick up some small presents from the duty free shop for the ladies and 32 minutes on the Airport Express Train. OSL is a building site these days (and will stay so until early 2017), but still the waiting time at the security check is only 4 minutes according the airport website.
For direct flights from OSL to MAN you can't pick and choose - either you are lucky and avoid the ME3s or you hit them big time (late SK4609 and early EK17 is the perfect combination).
At the other end it takes usually 55 minutes for me to get from our office situated at the west end of Oslo to the Non-Schengen gate for the flight to LHR, and that includes time to check in baggage, time to pick up some small presents from the duty free shop for the ladies and 32 minutes on the Airport Express Train. OSL is a building site these days (and will stay so until early 2017), but still the waiting time at the security check is only 4 minutes according the airport website.
For direct flights from OSL to MAN you can't pick and choose - either you are lucky and avoid the ME3s or you hit them big time (late SK4609 and early EK17 is the perfect combination).