MANCHESTER - 9
Lets be fair, from what I have read the plans are still in their infancy and no actual hard decisions have been made yet. In any major business there will be evaluations, tentative plans and discussions etc etc......it doesn't all get blerted out in a blow by blow account.
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I'm not suggesting 'nothing' is going on. But there are no Airport City
lettings yet so not much will happen until then
lettings yet so not much will happen until then
The other bit of Airport City, the logistics hub, is a few warehouses down by
J6 of the M56. No big deal. Most casual observers won't even associate them with MAG.
And no I don't think I'm being over dramatic. I'm just suggesting that's what happens when newspapers get their hands on a story. They will - rightly in my opinion - ask why such an important project is discussed with airline partners before a breath of it is whispered to the locals. They are being naive in thinking that it won't be leaked anyway - and then they are on the back foot.
Furthermore, all this 'discussing with the public first', When was the last time a planning application was put in before the architect has drawn up the final plans, as Im not aware of many instances. Yes there can be those funky little renders in the media, but those renders in the initial phases rarely look like the finished product, but, when MAN want to get this right first time, such renders would be naive.
Furthermore, whilst I understand that MANMAG sees airlines as its customers and not passengers, they would be a little short-sighted in not consulting us too before they nail down their plans. After all the airlines are only there because of us passengers.
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before a breath of it is whispered to the locals
A rebuild of Terminal 1 won't change a fig of any external view or experience.
Genuine question.
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Accessed from the same page is also a PDF showing the new car parking to be built on the 23R final approach. Interesting that they are putting a small spotters car park in the SW corner, though it only looks to have space for about 2 cars judging by the size!
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Lax_lhr
I assume the £450m you refer to is the amount recently raised from the MAG bond issue. If so, this was simply a refinancing of existing debt (see quote below), and is therefore not available for new investment at MAN or STN. Also there is no cash left over from the share sales as this was used to fund the equity portion of the Stansted investment. But that's not to say that MAG can't raise additional finance, for example by issuing more bonds.
MAG lands in the bond market
Manchester Airport Group inaugurated its new £5bn debt programme with a 20-year bond issue, refinancing half of the term loan it used during its acquisition of London Stansted airport last year. This deal establishes it in the capital markets, and gives it the flexibility of funding options other UK corporates enjoy.
IFR 2019 8 February to 14 February 2014
I assume the £450m you refer to is the amount recently raised from the MAG bond issue. If so, this was simply a refinancing of existing debt (see quote below), and is therefore not available for new investment at MAN or STN. Also there is no cash left over from the share sales as this was used to fund the equity portion of the Stansted investment. But that's not to say that MAG can't raise additional finance, for example by issuing more bonds.
MAG lands in the bond market
Manchester Airport Group inaugurated its new £5bn debt programme with a 20-year bond issue, refinancing half of the term loan it used during its acquisition of London Stansted airport last year. This deal establishes it in the capital markets, and gives it the flexibility of funding options other UK corporates enjoy.
IFR 2019 8 February to 14 February 2014
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terms of reference of Davies Commission
Bagso : Louise Ellman as Chair of the Transport Select Committee may have interpreted the Commission's ToR in that way. However the central para of the ToR as announced by Patrick McLoughlin on 7 Nov 2012 is
' The Commission will examine the scale and timing of any requirement for additional capacity to maintain the UK's position as Europe's most important aviation hub, and it will identify and evaluate how any need for additional capacity should be met in the short,medium and long run.'
' The Commission will examine the scale and timing of any requirement for additional capacity to maintain the UK's position as Europe's most important aviation hub, and it will identify and evaluate how any need for additional capacity should be met in the short,medium and long run.'
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ETOPS
As Viscount has said that image is old and has been ditched. Consign it to the 'what may have been but is not' file.
The new 'plans' such as they are at the moment don't include a Pier B as such.
As Viscount has said that image is old and has been ditched. Consign it to the 'what may have been but is not' file.
The new 'plans' such as they are at the moment don't include a Pier B as such.
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what measures you are defining Airport City as the largest construction project in the UK
Well it clearly isn't the size of Crossrail for instance or, I would have thought LHR T2. Others too I would guess.
Just marketing hype probably.
I terms of capital value, I'm not even convinced if it's the biggest construction project in Manchester at the moment - there's Carrington Power Station at around £500m for instance. Airport City won't all be built at once but in phases - so a series of smaller projects.
Well it clearly isn't the size of Crossrail for instance or, I would have thought LHR T2. Others too I would guess.
Just marketing hype probably.
I terms of capital value, I'm not even convinced if it's the biggest construction project in Manchester at the moment - there's Carrington Power Station at around £500m for instance. Airport City won't all be built at once but in phases - so a series of smaller projects.
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Well Ive obviously fallen for the marketing hype but its still a huge project.
Its just a shame all the discussion so far has been on technicalities rather than the project itself and how it will benefit the area/public.
Its just a shame all the discussion so far has been on technicalities rather than the project itself and how it will benefit the area/public.
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Just as a side note, drove past the airport this morning as im in the area, and construction has definatly started on the the logistics hub. One would have to be blind to not notice that amount of earthworks taking place next to a main road.
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As noted in my post yesterday!
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I think this is the article about airport city stating most significant since
Olympics
Global Airport Cities 2013 - Airport City: The UK?s ?most significant development project since the Olympics?
ian
Olympics
Global Airport Cities 2013 - Airport City: The UK?s ?most significant development project since the Olympics?
ian
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Cargo flights
Lax_Lhr
Re your post on cargo flights the following article from the South China Morning Post provides some background to Cathay's wider problems and the general malaise of the sector
Cathay Pacific Airways plans to keep part of its freighter fleet in the hangar this year amid a protracted slump in the cargo market.
The airline's cargo tonnage fell 1.4 per cent year on year last month, following a 5 per cent drop in December. Cathay, the second-largest air-cargo operator behind Emirates SkyCargo, saw growth in shipments in only two of the past 12 months.
"Freight rates are under pressure because of overcapacity in the market," James Woodrow, Cathay's cargo director, said yesterday.
The freight business of Hong Kong's biggest airline has been hit by overcapacity in the market, compounded by weak demand in the United States and Europe since last year. Recovery in demand this year would hinge on the strength of the US economy, Woodrow said.
Cathay took five of its 26 freighters out of service last year. It also agreed to sell six Boeing 747-400 freighters to Boeing, with the aircraft leaving the fleet between now and 2016.
Aside from overcapacity in the industry, the scattering of the production lines on the mainland for Apple's iPhones and iPads has added to Cathay's woes.
"In the past, we could wait here for the products to be trucked down from the production lines in the Pearl River Delta … now we have to fly to new production centres in Chongqing and Zhengzhou," Woodrow said.
Chief executive John Slosar said about 50 per cent of the carrier's cargo tonnage was transshipments from the mainland.
The airline's share of the market in carrying technology products is under pressure as the competition in inland cities is much fiercer than that in its home base.
Hong Kong airport handled 2.4 per cent more cargo at 4.12 million tonnes last year while the volume carried by Cathay dropped 1.5 per cent.
To improve efficiency in handling transshipments, the carrier built its own cargo terminal in Hong Kong. The HK$5.9 billion facility, which marks its first anniversary this week, has been in full operation since October. With 1,800 workers, it has handled 600,000 tonnes of cargo over the past year.
"The Cathay Pacific Cargo Terminal is established to add simplicity and flexibility to meet customers' increasingly demanding needs," said Algernon Yau, the chief executive of Cathay Pacific Services.
Re your post on cargo flights the following article from the South China Morning Post provides some background to Cathay's wider problems and the general malaise of the sector
Cathay Pacific Airways plans to keep part of its freighter fleet in the hangar this year amid a protracted slump in the cargo market.
The airline's cargo tonnage fell 1.4 per cent year on year last month, following a 5 per cent drop in December. Cathay, the second-largest air-cargo operator behind Emirates SkyCargo, saw growth in shipments in only two of the past 12 months.
"Freight rates are under pressure because of overcapacity in the market," James Woodrow, Cathay's cargo director, said yesterday.
The freight business of Hong Kong's biggest airline has been hit by overcapacity in the market, compounded by weak demand in the United States and Europe since last year. Recovery in demand this year would hinge on the strength of the US economy, Woodrow said.
Cathay took five of its 26 freighters out of service last year. It also agreed to sell six Boeing 747-400 freighters to Boeing, with the aircraft leaving the fleet between now and 2016.
Aside from overcapacity in the industry, the scattering of the production lines on the mainland for Apple's iPhones and iPads has added to Cathay's woes.
"In the past, we could wait here for the products to be trucked down from the production lines in the Pearl River Delta … now we have to fly to new production centres in Chongqing and Zhengzhou," Woodrow said.
Chief executive John Slosar said about 50 per cent of the carrier's cargo tonnage was transshipments from the mainland.
The airline's share of the market in carrying technology products is under pressure as the competition in inland cities is much fiercer than that in its home base.
Hong Kong airport handled 2.4 per cent more cargo at 4.12 million tonnes last year while the volume carried by Cathay dropped 1.5 per cent.
To improve efficiency in handling transshipments, the carrier built its own cargo terminal in Hong Kong. The HK$5.9 billion facility, which marks its first anniversary this week, has been in full operation since October. With 1,800 workers, it has handled 600,000 tonnes of cargo over the past year.
"The Cathay Pacific Cargo Terminal is established to add simplicity and flexibility to meet customers' increasingly demanding needs," said Algernon Yau, the chief executive of Cathay Pacific Services.
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Jet2 has announced yet another new ski destination out of Manchester. A new winter-only service to Turin (Italy) is now on sale. Flights to be operated effective from 20 December, on Saturdays.
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Reverting to the possible plans for the whole scale redevelopment of T1.
If I understand what is said is being proposed, T1 would effectively rebuilt in the space between the present location and the railway station.
It had been mooted previously that T1 and T3 would be re-joined at some stage; but subject to road lay-outs, car parks etc. wouldn't the new site for T1 put it further away from T3? Under these latest rumoured plans, what would be the future of the present T3?
Comment was made about discussions with the airlines and the importance of not losing business during the re-development which may be hard to win back.
If a redevelopment on this scale were to go ahead costing in excess of £1billion, I wonder what increased charges the airport would want/need to impose on the airlines and agents to help get a return on the investment, as well obviously as hoping for significant expansion of traffic. As far as I know, MAN is no longer restricted on pricing in the same way LHR is.
Finally, in terms of such a project if it happens, what sort of time scale are we talking about - 5 - 10 years?
If I understand what is said is being proposed, T1 would effectively rebuilt in the space between the present location and the railway station.
It had been mooted previously that T1 and T3 would be re-joined at some stage; but subject to road lay-outs, car parks etc. wouldn't the new site for T1 put it further away from T3? Under these latest rumoured plans, what would be the future of the present T3?
Comment was made about discussions with the airlines and the importance of not losing business during the re-development which may be hard to win back.
If a redevelopment on this scale were to go ahead costing in excess of £1billion, I wonder what increased charges the airport would want/need to impose on the airlines and agents to help get a return on the investment, as well obviously as hoping for significant expansion of traffic. As far as I know, MAN is no longer restricted on pricing in the same way LHR is.
Finally, in terms of such a project if it happens, what sort of time scale are we talking about - 5 - 10 years?
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Davies Commission
One for you Bagso. You've evidently read Davies in some detail, which is more than I have.
Was Davies really so dismissive of long haul services from regional airports on environmental grounds? And was this in the context just of O&D routes or also including point-to-hub, which is what MAN mainly does? I'm not sure what percentage of pax to EWR or JFK are connecting there, but they may be destinations that do have a fair proportion of O & D, along with Orlando and Toronto, but I suspect they are not the norm.
If this was his view, I hope Davies wasn't conned into thinking, or assumed, that such flights from MAN are usually less than half full with no pax up front, whereas flights from LHR must be full because the airport is all but at capacity in movements. And if he did make such a claim, I would like to think MAN
responded in strong terms to such an assertion. Do we know if they have?
Certainly a question for the speaker at TAS in a couple of weeks.
As to 'environmental grounds', as others have already questioned, how will more flights from regional airports to LHR to support the hub help the environment.
One for you Bagso. You've evidently read Davies in some detail, which is more than I have.
Was Davies really so dismissive of long haul services from regional airports on environmental grounds? And was this in the context just of O&D routes or also including point-to-hub, which is what MAN mainly does? I'm not sure what percentage of pax to EWR or JFK are connecting there, but they may be destinations that do have a fair proportion of O & D, along with Orlando and Toronto, but I suspect they are not the norm.
If this was his view, I hope Davies wasn't conned into thinking, or assumed, that such flights from MAN are usually less than half full with no pax up front, whereas flights from LHR must be full because the airport is all but at capacity in movements. And if he did make such a claim, I would like to think MAN
responded in strong terms to such an assertion. Do we know if they have?
Certainly a question for the speaker at TAS in a couple of weeks.
As to 'environmental grounds', as others have already questioned, how will more flights from regional airports to LHR to support the hub help the environment.