MANCHESTER - 9
Join Date: Jan 2013
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MAN did make some questionable decisions last night, like refusing some but then accepting them too late. VS26, AA142 and CX38 are 3 examples that were initially refused but then accepted to the point of being on the MAN arrivals board, but it was too late.
However, it wasn't just MAN that got a slating last night, I have heard that despite its 21 diversions accepted, BHX did not come out smelling of roses either, so lets just draw a line under it, hope that lessons have been learnt for future issues and put it to bed. No amount of whining on here is going to change last night's outcome.
However, it wasn't just MAN that got a slating last night, I have heard that despite its 21 diversions accepted, BHX did not come out smelling of roses either, so lets just draw a line under it, hope that lessons have been learnt for future issues and put it to bed. No amount of whining on here is going to change last night's outcome.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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hope that lessons have been learnt for future issues and put it to bed
I understand the economic perspectives argued by 750XL - I don't agree with them however they have validity from a spreadsheet analysis!
Life and actual uncertainty of events don't necessarily fit that narrative through.
And again forcing the hand of the pointy bit to declare a 7700 remains unacceptable - That alone deserves national critic investigation and even dare I say the attention of the media.
There I end.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
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STN … Best Investment Ever!
Quoting Nigel: "MAN loss was STN gain who took a shed full"
Well, MAG will be delighted with that. The suits will be able to demonstrate how brilliant their expensive new toy is! Worth every penny.
Anyone fancy another good conspiracy yarn??? :-)
Well, MAG will be delighted with that. The suits will be able to demonstrate how brilliant their expensive new toy is! Worth every penny.
Anyone fancy another good conspiracy yarn??? :-)
Join Date: Feb 2004
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So you throw away revenue from parked aircraft to rival airports/companies just in case you get a dozen diverts one February night I'd be interested to see how much revenue the parked Jet2's bring to the airport, compared to a single night of diverts.
Little wonder MAG prefer using space for automobiles is it ?
And indeed did refer to the parking M-F only.Yes Jet2 utilise their fleet in peaks and troughs through the low season - that I know.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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No amount of whining on here is going to change last night's outcome.
BA used LBA & NCL for some LHR diverts - certainly not normally considered.
Given our change in climate I am sure that plans will be put in place for the future!
Join Date: Jun 2011
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I agree with some of the points that some airlines should have plan B however MAN is just a joke for handling diverts.
If they could only manage the amount of diverts received last night then how is the airport supposed to grown in future when its clearly more less at capacity and nowhere for aircraft to grow.
Anybody link long term plans?
If they could only manage the amount of diverts received last night then how is the airport supposed to grown in future when its clearly more less at capacity and nowhere for aircraft to grow.
Anybody link long term plans?
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The airport can easily increase traffic and passenger volumes over the coming years, just look at T2 after midday, it's dead. Upon route negotiations or announcements the airport often adjust things accordingly, such as reconfiguration of stands (Remote cargo stands for Cathay 748, various changes for TOM 788s, T3 re-shuffle to accommodate FR).
However, the airport aren't going to throw tens/hundreds of thousands down the pan for those few nights a year we get diverts, it isn't financially viable. In an ideal world we'd have endless amounts of staff and space to deal with every divert you throw at us but no airport in the world is going to be like that
However, the airport aren't going to throw tens/hundreds of thousands down the pan for those few nights a year we get diverts, it isn't financially viable. In an ideal world we'd have endless amounts of staff and space to deal with every divert you throw at us but no airport in the world is going to be like that
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I agree with some of the points that some airlines should have plan B however MAN is just a joke for handling diverts.
If they could only manage the amount of diverts received last night then how is the airport supposed to grown in future when its clearly more less at capacity and nowhere for aircraft to grow.
Anybody link long term plans?
If they could only manage the amount of diverts received last night then how is the airport supposed to grown in future when its clearly more less at capacity and nowhere for aircraft to grow.
Anybody link long term plans?
Flexible fares operators and yes even legacies that won't pay an adequate amount and passengers that expect £1 tickets (excluding taxes) are all to blame.
Compounded by UK PLC fractured management/ownership and operations leading to general lack of resilience and planning and creating a not my responsibility rather than can do culture.
We see this everywhere railways energy environment and health - I might add its spreading beyond the UK and across the EU sponsored by UK PLC !
Join Date: May 2005
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Given our change in climate I am sure that plans will be put in place for the future!
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In fairness it's not all about the airport, if an airline such as Cathay Pacific chooses to operate into 1 UK airport there's an onus and responsibility on them to have a resiliance plan should they be unable to land at LHR. From all the stories we hear everytime there's an issue at LHR it appears to me that the pilot ends up flying around the UK asking for somewhere to land, they should have a pre-determined plan and agreement with an airport and a handling agent at said airport for such an occourance. Not picking on Cathay by the way just using them as an example.
There are stands that can take the 748, so that shouldn't be a problem, the airport even changed the taxi ways and roads to accommodate it and tie down points specifically for the -8.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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No, I'm afraid there wont be.
Mobilising COBRA is always reactive and after the event.
UK business is hopelessly slow at planning and implementation of disaster recovery - always has been seen a cost and burden !
We complain about EU directives however all are created by business input -
German and other EU companies may take time to reply however many UK businesses just by stand .
Sorry going off topic.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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The alternate is MAN and is filed in the flt plan. They have engineering/cargo/handling agents in place, that's why it's an alternate.
Others maybe so but not this.
The flight could have been off loaded and off on its way.
Having been declined I am surprised it went to Stansted rather than Amsterdam through.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I am puzzled by this. If one understands CX38 or whatever has MAN declared as the Alternate in its flight plan, and that is a stored flight plan used everyday CX38 flies, and if they have a contract in place with MAN to handle that flight as and when diverted, then how can it be turned away on the basis posted here ? Has MAN informed CX and every other airline that MAN cannot be a designated Alternate ? Has MAN informed CX and every other airline that has a contract in place to handle diversions that it will not honour that contract ?
Join Date: Aug 2013
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BA used LBA & NCL for some LHR diverts - certainly not normally considered.
Still it was poor from MAN last night
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Balanced economy
Other threads are discussing why it is so important that Heathrow becomes a larger hub airport, presumably with lower usage at the other airports. However, these other airports need to have the capacity to cope with Heathrow diversions. Do the the passengers from these smaller airports have to pay for the excess capability? Is the alternative solution to reduce the dependency on one particular airport so that there flexibility across the UK? If not, then this situation will happen.
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While this has provoked some interesting conversation about the whys and wherefores I think its important to remember that people have lost their lives in these storms and there are thousands out there who are suffering a hell of a lot more than a few disgruntled pilots; yes its inconvenience but it's not as if their livelehoods are at stake.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Other threads are discussing why it is so important that Heathrow becomes a larger hub airport, presumably with lower usage at the other airports. However, these other airports need to have the capacity to cope with Heathrow diversions. Do the the passengers from these smaller airports have to pay for the excess capability? Is the alternative solution to reduce the dependency on one particular airport so that there flexibility across the UK? If not, then this situation will happen.
Airports already do have the capabilty to cope with diversions from LHR, they were much more common in days past, what airports choose to do now is deny them on the ground of hassle. It's not about "dependency" or "flexibility" as any attempt to restrain LHR just bleeds traffic away to AMS/FRA/CDG et al. We already have too many regional airports. Belfast loses to Dublin as it lacks an airport with critical capacity and profitability. Teesside is dying, Plymouth has gone, Newquay is in freefall, Prestwick and Cardiff were nationalised to prevent closure. Manchester ceased to be the strategic gateway for the region when LBA and LPL exploded on the back of the loco bubble and we can all see the lack of infrastructure investment as a result. (* cough Gate 12 for an A380????)
So yeah we need a national strategy, competition and the free market create bubbles that burst and if you don't keep an eye on things the country gets damaged. Just understand that it's not about a fair divvying up of passenger traffic amongst the regions of the UK, in market terms it's about maintaining competitiveness of our national hub at LHR, allowing UK domestic connectivity in there with runway three and giving people an excuse to support UK jobs rather than continental ones. ( #notinukiphonest)
The reason MAN can't cope is becasue all the staff that used to deal with this had their terms and conditions eroded year on year to the point that they pay peanuts and so people will not go the extra mile for no reward for Servisair, Swissport or Menzies in the same way they once did for BMI, BA or anyone else who had in house people ready to help.