DONCASTER SHEFFIELD
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According to anna.aero the Dusseldorf route will be 4 x weekly and a 10th destination with Flybe will be announced shortly. In addition the airport are actively talking to Wizz about new routes.
Join Date: May 2007
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There is no doubting the aerodrome characteristics of DSA are the best in the North East of England but the vast majority of these recently announced routes are simply taking passengers of established and yet fragile routes in Yorkshire and hence destabilising those routes. Just as when Flybe and Linksair tried Belfast (sometimes carrying 1 passenger) from DSA all that happened was a short term, unsustainable destabilising of existing routes from established Yorkshire airports. Other than population growth, where are these passengers going to come from? Is having 4 flights per week to DUS from both LBA and DSA the best way to solve the problem? No - it's total lunacy. The Prime Minister was spot on when he said "we knew they didn't like other regions but we didn't know they hated each other!". It sums up Yorkshire Civil Aviation. At least Flybe will be in it for the long haul.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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@LEEDS APPROACH couldn't disagree more!
When easyjet started LPL-NCE all those years ago there was outcry about killing BA Citiexpress off the route at MAN. What happened? EZY developed a whole new market and citiflier pax on the roue grew also.
Passengers will come, some will be people who wouldn't have otherwise flown, some will be because the economy will benefit and grow, business will develop.
It's proven history.
There maybe some redistribution of passengers around the region but the overall growth outweighs this.
Now, I wonder if you objected so strongly to Jet2 when they started services competing with existing carriers at LBA? Surely monarch and ryanair should be asked to leave leeds because jet2 got their first? Because that is how you sound to me.
Competition is a good thing, in my opinion.
When easyjet started LPL-NCE all those years ago there was outcry about killing BA Citiexpress off the route at MAN. What happened? EZY developed a whole new market and citiflier pax on the roue grew also.
Passengers will come, some will be people who wouldn't have otherwise flown, some will be because the economy will benefit and grow, business will develop.
It's proven history.
There maybe some redistribution of passengers around the region but the overall growth outweighs this.
Now, I wonder if you objected so strongly to Jet2 when they started services competing with existing carriers at LBA? Surely monarch and ryanair should be asked to leave leeds because jet2 got their first? Because that is how you sound to me.
Competition is a good thing, in my opinion.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Leeds Approach, why be afraid of little old DSA - its no threat to LBA.
Taking your argument in turn, DSA/Wizz should have mirrored your reasoning when Ryanair started Eastern European routes out of LBA.
In the end it made no difference and Wizz continued to flourish with competition.
Taking your argument in turn, DSA/Wizz should have mirrored your reasoning when Ryanair started Eastern European routes out of LBA.
In the end it made no difference and Wizz continued to flourish with competition.
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Given the catchment area there is no reason why DSA should not be handling at least 4m passengers a year. Hopefully Flybe base will be a sustainable and expanding operation to serve the catchment area appropriately.
Join Date: May 2007
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Cumbrianboy - yes EZY developed a new low cost market to NCE from the North West. Passengers who would not dream of paying a full fare business airline could now get to NCE. MAN management were very slow to wake up to the low cost airline boom. Where is the full fare airline service to NCE from the North west now? This is not the argument as regards DSA v EMA, HUY, LBA and MAN.
My point is NOT to do with the evolving markets of civil air travel or airlines competing that offer differing products to the customer. I am NOT talking about competition within ONE airport which is obviously great for the customer as it drives prices down while maintaining quality of service. What is terrible for the customer is less than ideal airports battling against nearby less than ideal airports (both airports offering the basic same product via similar airlines) to a finite catchment population (allowing for slow population growth). Ignore the deals to get airlines on board at various airports - as eventually they run out [a la MME]. The true test of airport sustainability is the time (and ease) catchment population. DSA's is not very big and not very wealthy. Yorkshire dividing up its limited catchment population when it is already under attack from NCL, EMA and MAN etc will just lead to failure of air transport service for the Yorkshire people in the future.
My point is NOT to do with the evolving markets of civil air travel or airlines competing that offer differing products to the customer. I am NOT talking about competition within ONE airport which is obviously great for the customer as it drives prices down while maintaining quality of service. What is terrible for the customer is less than ideal airports battling against nearby less than ideal airports (both airports offering the basic same product via similar airlines) to a finite catchment population (allowing for slow population growth). Ignore the deals to get airlines on board at various airports - as eventually they run out [a la MME]. The true test of airport sustainability is the time (and ease) catchment population. DSA's is not very big and not very wealthy. Yorkshire dividing up its limited catchment population when it is already under attack from NCL, EMA and MAN etc will just lead to failure of air transport service for the Yorkshire people in the future.
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I am not afraid of lil old DSA. I was not afraid when EZY and RYR went there. They soon realised what I am telling you (when the deals ran out). I have nothing against DSA and part of me despite being from West Yorkshire would rather have a 1 airport Yorkshire civil aviation strategy based at DSA than 2+ failing airports fighting each other. By "failing" - I mean not realising the potential. DSA is not in the ideal location (just as LBA isn't) and so would only be a partial solution to the problem.
DSA is a threat to LBA just as LBA is a threat to DSA. It is infinitely better to have 1 ideally located fully functioning airport that uses a 5.5 million catchment population than have 2 poorly located airports that have to share that catchment. Do you think some passengers who would have used the EI service from LBA to DUB are now using the EI service from DSA to DUB? How has this affected the LBA service - made it stronger or weaker?
Wizzair a very well established and renowned Eastern Eurpoean airline has indeed reduced the amount of route and service from LBA to Eastern Europe in exactly the same way that LBA's very well established Belfast service has curtailed Flybe and Linksair's attempts to have a Belfast service from DSA. Two airports fighting against each other and dividing the catchment- inefficient civil aviation strategy that plays right into the hands of the encircling competition airports. That is why Yorkshire and the Humber loses more passengers to the neighbour region airports than anywhere else in Britain.
DSA is a threat to LBA just as LBA is a threat to DSA. It is infinitely better to have 1 ideally located fully functioning airport that uses a 5.5 million catchment population than have 2 poorly located airports that have to share that catchment. Do you think some passengers who would have used the EI service from LBA to DUB are now using the EI service from DSA to DUB? How has this affected the LBA service - made it stronger or weaker?
Wizzair a very well established and renowned Eastern Eurpoean airline has indeed reduced the amount of route and service from LBA to Eastern Europe in exactly the same way that LBA's very well established Belfast service has curtailed Flybe and Linksair's attempts to have a Belfast service from DSA. Two airports fighting against each other and dividing the catchment- inefficient civil aviation strategy that plays right into the hands of the encircling competition airports. That is why Yorkshire and the Humber loses more passengers to the neighbour region airports than anywhere else in Britain.
Last edited by LEEDS APPROACH; 31st Mar 2016 at 06:58.
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Leeds Approach, feel free to cut up the argument any way you see to fit to reason your own parochial view.
However LBA now has more Eastern European routes/frequencies than ever before and Wizz continue to grow at DSA. There is no loss on that one as they are routes that fit the market.
Why not go the whole hog and close LBA, DSA and HUY because MAN is better placed to suit us all. We shouldn't as there is a market and place for all within each sub region.
However LBA now has more Eastern European routes/frequencies than ever before and Wizz continue to grow at DSA. There is no loss on that one as they are routes that fit the market.
Why not go the whole hog and close LBA, DSA and HUY because MAN is better placed to suit us all. We shouldn't as there is a market and place for all within each sub region.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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And to change the subject Flybe have just announced a new 1x weekly ski route from Doncaster-Sheffield to Chambery. The service will operate every Saturday commencing from December 17th.
BE4467 DSA 16:25 - CMF 19:35
BE4468 CMF 20:15 - DSA 21:10
BE4467 DSA 16:25 - CMF 19:35
BE4468 CMF 20:15 - DSA 21:10
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Having too many airports in a region actually serves to hold that region back and help the competition region airports. Neither airport can get established because there isn't the critical mass and this is especially the case if the airports are restricted or less than ideal. What is often seen as good competition is in reality offering a poor service. 4 weekly flights to DUS from LBA and DSA = no thanks I'll fly from EMA, MAN, NCL!
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LBA has lost routes to Vilnius, Krakow (Jet2), Warsaw, Berlin and Kaunas egcn so I think you maybe wrong. It's not a parochial view as the best location for an airport for Yorkshire and the Humber is no where near my parish!
The concept is very very simple - It is called catchment area population. Too small and your airport will struggle. (after the deals!)
The concept is very very simple - It is called catchment area population. Too small and your airport will struggle. (after the deals!)
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Actually it's not about catchment population, that's a terribly simplistic view.
And to counter your claim, Ryanair operated to DUB from LBA and EMA.
EI Regional came in and started EMA and LBA. Both EIR and FR continuing to do well on the route. According to your argument, the EIR presence should have divided and conquered. It didn't …
Then, EIR launch DSA. DSA is doing well, and so is EMA and LBA. In fact, there have been frequency increases for this coming summer. FR continue to operate …
As many others seem to agree, there is a market for both LBA and DSA. Which should be the dominant airport is another argument, but they are both growing and developing and will continue to do so, and as an airport is a catalyst for economic development, both of them developing will only seek to strengthen yorkshire, not weaken it.
I feel I've said enough on the subject …
Great news about the new routes from FlyBE at DSA, I am sure they will do well, and with the link road now up and running and phase 2 on the way soon I see a bright future ...
And to counter your claim, Ryanair operated to DUB from LBA and EMA.
EI Regional came in and started EMA and LBA. Both EIR and FR continuing to do well on the route. According to your argument, the EIR presence should have divided and conquered. It didn't …
Then, EIR launch DSA. DSA is doing well, and so is EMA and LBA. In fact, there have been frequency increases for this coming summer. FR continue to operate …
As many others seem to agree, there is a market for both LBA and DSA. Which should be the dominant airport is another argument, but they are both growing and developing and will continue to do so, and as an airport is a catalyst for economic development, both of them developing will only seek to strengthen yorkshire, not weaken it.
I feel I've said enough on the subject …
Great news about the new routes from FlyBE at DSA, I am sure they will do well, and with the link road now up and running and phase 2 on the way soon I see a bright future ...
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Ok we'll just have to disagree. It really is quite simple my friend. You have certain area of land between airports with a certain population with a certain propensity to fly. It is a finite number. Take away the deals and are the routes sustainable? Two of the most successful airlines in the world have come and gone. Yorkshire exports more passengers to its direct neighbours than anywhere else in Britain for a reason.
I repeat my earlier post:
Do you think some passengers who would have used the EI service from LBA to DUB are now using the EI service from DSA to DUB? How has this affected the LBA service - made it stronger or weaker?
If you halve the catchment you have less passengers to make services viable. Passengers = flights
A few passengers taken away from a route will end it.
I repeat my earlier post:
Do you think some passengers who would have used the EI service from LBA to DUB are now using the EI service from DSA to DUB? How has this affected the LBA service - made it stronger or weaker?
If you halve the catchment you have less passengers to make services viable. Passengers = flights
A few passengers taken away from a route will end it.