Aberdeen oil consortium contract
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Aberdeen oil consortium contract
Does anyone have any news on this contract, I know that all tenders had to be submitted by today, and that there were apparently 10 or 11 bids. Any idea who's put in bids, who's shortlisted or who's the front-runner??
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IVE HEARD THAT THE EX BWA ATP'S ARE BEING MAINTAINED AS NORMAL TO START FLYING AT A MOMENTS NOTICE AND ALSO HEARD FROM SOMEWHERE ABOUT ALPINE AVIATION STARTING UP ASWELL. I CANT SEE JETS OPERATING THE ROUTE LIKE FLITELINE'S 146'S FOREVER AS THEY MUST BE COSTING A FORTUNE.
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Heard a long time ago that the consortium were very unhappy with the BWA operation and were open to offers mid way thru the contract. Wrong airplane, bad operation, anyone throw any light?
Nothing is ideal to Scatsta I know, but maybe ScotAirways could run the arses off their 328's and make it work, higher operating costs but at least a decent operator / airplane could demand a little higher premium and save SoctAirways into the bargain!!!
Nothing is ideal to Scatsta I know, but maybe ScotAirways could run the arses off their 328's and make it work, higher operating costs but at least a decent operator / airplane could demand a little higher premium and save SoctAirways into the bargain!!!
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Well, I don't remember the Oil Companies having such a big problem when Brymon Offshore were running the Dash7's on that route. From memory they wanted it done cheaper, and look what they got. Unfortunate for BWA, and everyone involved, but it has brought a smile to faces off some, as rumours were rife of double dealings involved when Brymon lost the contract a couple of years ago.
............. Chins up it coould be worse... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
............. Chins up it coould be worse... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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LGW Vulture - well sport, for a supposed Senior Aviation Analyst, with regards to some of the stuff you contribute, you seem remarkably ill-informed (neigh, naive).
Accordingly I'd suggest you do a little more research as to the historic 'facts' in respect to the why's and wherefores of history of the Aberdeen Oil Contract work, e.g. it was the 'Oil Consortium' who wanted BWA to use (highly unreliable) ATP's (whereas BWA had wanted to use ATR's, i.e. they even had two of them on their AOC just for that purpose - and indeed a lot of the demise of BWA was due to a failure in refinancing / selling-on of the full-rate leases on the those two aircraft) plus the fact that to provide the required (contracted) 'service level' they needed to have a ridiculous number of (unreliable) ATP aircraft available, when two ATR's would have sufficed.
The bottom line is old son, there's a lot of history that surrounds all this, most of which you were not privy to !
Ps. It's for a good reason that the ATP is also known as, 'Another Technical Problem' - and in ALL of the above BAe have an awful lot to answer for (imho) !
Accordingly I'd suggest you do a little more research as to the historic 'facts' in respect to the why's and wherefores of history of the Aberdeen Oil Contract work, e.g. it was the 'Oil Consortium' who wanted BWA to use (highly unreliable) ATP's (whereas BWA had wanted to use ATR's, i.e. they even had two of them on their AOC just for that purpose - and indeed a lot of the demise of BWA was due to a failure in refinancing / selling-on of the full-rate leases on the those two aircraft) plus the fact that to provide the required (contracted) 'service level' they needed to have a ridiculous number of (unreliable) ATP aircraft available, when two ATR's would have sufficed.
The bottom line is old son, there's a lot of history that surrounds all this, most of which you were not privy to !
Ps. It's for a good reason that the ATP is also known as, 'Another Technical Problem' - and in ALL of the above BAe have an awful lot to answer for (imho) !
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Well, here's hoping Flightline get the contract. Being a regular user of the service I've spent many an hour in Aberdeen waiting for BWA to fix the ATP or fire up the fourth aircraft. Having a fleet of 4 aircraft with three out of service due to technical problems is downright ridiculous but it happened on a few occassions. The contract only demanded 3 aircraft, the fourth aircraft was only brought in due to the poor reliability of the other three. Living under the flightpath of Scatsta, and talking to some folk who have used the service, the punctuality of the service has never been better. With regard to the cost, apparently the 146's are using about a third more fuel than the ATP's, that said the 146 is much better at clearing backlog from Scatsta as they can depart with up to 95 PAX but they're limited to a similar number as the ATP was for arrival at Scatsta. Have to say watching them take of and climb is pretty damned impressive, I'm due out of Scatsta first thing Monday and I'm looking forward to the flight. Here's hoping the consortium look a bit further than costs this time - either that or bring back the Dash 7's.
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Used to do this route out of Aberdeen with the old Shorts 330. Marvelous machine for this route.
Not too fast agreed but made it in and out many times when others failed. Can't see the D328 on this route due to the poor crosswind component on the machine, 21 Kts.
And this is absolute Max, no messing around!!
Dornier is just not built for Scottish Island weather in fact neither is the BAE 146!
Bring back the old Shed and all will be forgiven!!!!!
Not too fast agreed but made it in and out many times when others failed. Can't see the D328 on this route due to the poor crosswind component on the machine, 21 Kts.
And this is absolute Max, no messing around!!
Dornier is just not built for Scottish Island weather in fact neither is the BAE 146!
Bring back the old Shed and all will be forgiven!!!!!
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Shawny,
I did lots of trips on the 330, my memories are earache and the hardest landing short of a completley uncontrolled descent. Problem nowadays is the fixed wing into Scatsta is there primarily to serve the Helicopters - because of this the aircraft needs to be able to carry 54 pax - 3 helicopter loads. This rules out a lot of the smaller regional aircraft. The low point of the 330's service was when it was unceremoniously blown over onto it's wing one night during the stopover. Dash 7 was the most fun, crosswinds seemed like more of a challenge to these guys - and as for short take off and landing, it had to be seen to be believed sometimes.
I did lots of trips on the 330, my memories are earache and the hardest landing short of a completley uncontrolled descent. Problem nowadays is the fixed wing into Scatsta is there primarily to serve the Helicopters - because of this the aircraft needs to be able to carry 54 pax - 3 helicopter loads. This rules out a lot of the smaller regional aircraft. The low point of the 330's service was when it was unceremoniously blown over onto it's wing one night during the stopover. Dash 7 was the most fun, crosswinds seemed like more of a challenge to these guys - and as for short take off and landing, it had to be seen to be believed sometimes.
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Having dealt with the various companies that fly or flew out of Sumburgh over the past years, In my eyes apart from the performance of the 146, the best aircraft for the job is the ATR72. It was a bad day when the ATR's were replaced by the ATP's. Very rarely did they leave Sumburgh without a max payload available.
They would be ideal for Scatsta.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
They would be ideal for Scatsta.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Except the oil consortium decided against the ATR after insisting it be used. Only to discover it was much more expensive to operate when compared to the ATP, and then reverted back to the ATP.
As for reliability on the ATP, the dispatch figures tell the truth. The ATP is no more unreliable than any other aircraft, it just has a bad press.
Many of the delays associated with this contract were down to tech choppers or wx, but the ATP was often made to be the scapegoat.
As for reliability on the ATP, the dispatch figures tell the truth. The ATP is no more unreliable than any other aircraft, it just has a bad press.
Many of the delays associated with this contract were down to tech choppers or wx, but the ATP was often made to be the scapegoat.
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Here here silverhawk.
Many a time I can remember tech heli's, poor wx off-shore( below the heli's minima )or poor wx at SCS, late arrival of heli's etc...But the ATP would get the stick.
Yes, the ATP did go tech sometimes.What aircraft doesn't.
Many a time I can remember tech heli's, poor wx off-shore( below the heli's minima )or poor wx at SCS, late arrival of heli's etc...But the ATP would get the stick.
Yes, the ATP did go tech sometimes.What aircraft doesn't.
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Strap-in I have some email to send to you regarding some of the allegations you have made in this thread. The email in your profile is not working therefore I must inform you that unless you provide a valid email address to me privately and amend the one in your profile I will be deleting all posts ever made by you.
You do not have to leave the new address publically visible but you MUST provide an address where you are contactable at. This goes to anyone else who uses PPRuNe.
You do not have to leave the new address publically visible but you MUST provide an address where you are contactable at. This goes to anyone else who uses PPRuNe.
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Silverhawk,
Bad Press ???, you mean BWA brought a fourth aircraft to Aberdeen just because they read somewhere it was unreliable - I don't think so. Honest Frank is right about the offshore weather causing delays, this led to backlog and this tended to be when the ATP used to play its Joker and go tech usually at least two together. When the ATR's were at Sumburgh, you'd be surprised at the number of BA pax who ended up on the ATR due to ATP's going tech. In fact my last trip through Sumburgh in December saw a 146 there, diverted from Scatsta due to crosswinds. When it left it also had all the BA pax from another cancelled ATP flight that was left sulking on the apron. The last excuse I heard was that the ATP's didn't like the damp conditions.
Bad Press ???, you mean BWA brought a fourth aircraft to Aberdeen just because they read somewhere it was unreliable - I don't think so. Honest Frank is right about the offshore weather causing delays, this led to backlog and this tended to be when the ATP used to play its Joker and go tech usually at least two together. When the ATR's were at Sumburgh, you'd be surprised at the number of BA pax who ended up on the ATR due to ATP's going tech. In fact my last trip through Sumburgh in December saw a 146 there, diverted from Scatsta due to crosswinds. When it left it also had all the BA pax from another cancelled ATP flight that was left sulking on the apron. The last excuse I heard was that the ATP's didn't like the damp conditions.
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As one who has flown both the ATP and 146 ( currently flying B777) I must say that both aircraft are good at what they do. From what I can gather BWA did have problems with the ATPs in Aberdeen but it must be said that it sems they were not getting the engineering support from HQ. Look at BRAL, they seem to be having good overall dispatch rates with theirs because they are well maintained. When it comes to the crunch I believe the ATP has the advantage over the 146 it its bad weather performance. I have flown both and know which I would rather be flying on a cold, windy winters evening in the Shetlands. That being said you can understand why the pax love the jet. But you have to look at the bigger picture and with good engineering support I believe the ATP is the aircraft for the job up their.
Anyway good luck to whoever gets it.
Anyway good luck to whoever gets it.
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Honest Frank - what you've said is quite right, there were many occasions when I have arrived in Scatsta to be told the helicopters are running late, and when you're scheduled out in 25 mins with a 1/2 hour turnround in Aberdeen there's no catch-up. The guys and occasionally girls in Aberdeen are only told they're delayed and assume it's the aircraft's fault when it's quite often not. Anyway how's the house coming along during this enforced period of poorly paid leave???
Re the debate about ATP/ATR/146, well it all depends on how much the oil consortium are prepared to pay. The ATP is the cheapest option, which is the reason it was brought in to do the job a couple of years ago, it is also better at dealing with strong x-winds than either of the others. It may well be the most inferior of the three in most other aspects but that is a major factor in the Shetlands, and I'll bet there are many occasions when the ATP'll get in when none of the others would.
Anyway none of this actually answers the original post, so come on somebody give us a clue as to who's up for the job, and most importantly do they need any pilots.
Re the debate about ATP/ATR/146, well it all depends on how much the oil consortium are prepared to pay. The ATP is the cheapest option, which is the reason it was brought in to do the job a couple of years ago, it is also better at dealing with strong x-winds than either of the others. It may well be the most inferior of the three in most other aspects but that is a major factor in the Shetlands, and I'll bet there are many occasions when the ATP'll get in when none of the others would.
Anyway none of this actually answers the original post, so come on somebody give us a clue as to who's up for the job, and most importantly do they need any pilots.