BMI REGIONAL-2
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They should try for something like the Sukhoi Superjet or Cseries or E-Jets and have a fully fitted business class etc (ala BMI) and try to pick up where BMI left off but on a much lesser scale.
Vey wise words davidjohnson6 but its not easy moving on from the Emb145, especially if you want to stay in the UK.
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146! Well it's not just the business model that's outdated!
Regional had a good base in EDI but when Ryan and easy come looking for business, they can ride all over companies like bmir because they have a business model that many want to use. Me included. The charging high fares for routes based on the fact that a corporation pay is outdated.
Businessmen and women fly low cost and that's today's reality. Eastern and bmir are scrabbling for the bits that the larger companies do t want yet.
But that's not really a business model that will see expansion and growth is it.
Regional had a good base in EDI but when Ryan and easy come looking for business, they can ride all over companies like bmir because they have a business model that many want to use. Me included. The charging high fares for routes based on the fact that a corporation pay is outdated.
Businessmen and women fly low cost and that's today's reality. Eastern and bmir are scrabbling for the bits that the larger companies do t want yet.
But that's not really a business model that will see expansion and growth is it.
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davidjohnson6
For some of us who want to stay in the U.K. bmir works, if it falls over well so be it. No need for you to be a knob and say well it's your own fault you should have seen it coming, for your information a lot of crew are looking for a new employer
You are
DnF might be calling you for a job
For some of us who want to stay in the U.K. bmir works, if it falls over well so be it. No need for you to be a knob and say well it's your own fault you should have seen it coming, for your information a lot of crew are looking for a new employer
You areDnF might be calling you for a job
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DJ6
A tad insensitive, but basically true, you can tell by bums on seats, that and the fare structure how well a company is doing, but trying to get out isn't easy with an ERJ type rating, especially if your in the LHS and want to stay in it.
Talk of a 146 is interesting…….if i recall the current CP was FM on the 146 post Debonair with the Lufthansa 146 contract from LCY??
Its difficult to see where they go going forward and the UK APD is a killer, is there a future flying football teams around Europe & Airbus work? i hope so.
What they could or should do is lease an 737CL 300/400 and tout for work in the style of Titan you can pick up semi retired 737 crews who will be happy to work flexible part time or by the hour, the likes of Jet2 and others will always have work for them and bmir do seem to have good charter contacts.
Just a thought
Talk of a 146 is interesting…….if i recall the current CP was FM on the 146 post Debonair with the Lufthansa 146 contract from LCY??
Its difficult to see where they go going forward and the UK APD is a killer, is there a future flying football teams around Europe & Airbus work? i hope so.
What they could or should do is lease an 737CL 300/400 and tout for work in the style of Titan you can pick up semi retired 737 crews who will be happy to work flexible part time or by the hour, the likes of Jet2 and others will always have work for them and bmir do seem to have good charter contacts.
Just a thought
Last edited by Facelookbovvered; 30th Oct 2013 at 22:47.
OK - I'm sorry for being a little harsh at a difficult time. However, I maintain that trusting in company management is a bad idea because when things go wrong, the general employees will be thrown to the wolves. Doesn't matter how many years service you have with the company - the finance director and HR care only about profit and loss.
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I just spent ages typing up a massive reply but this stupid laptop did something and I lost it all... Sooo... Yeah, I hope BMIR comes out of this rough patch...
:ouch :
:ouch :
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Where will the aircraft from the closed based be moved to? Or is the fleet being reduced? I've always thought the E135 was a little pointless, there can't be anything in the cost of operation versus the E145?
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AIRlcy
the E jet 135/145 were conceived when the long term average on oil was around $40 dpb that and the scope contracts agreed with the US Major airlines limited the number of seats that could be operated by feeder airlines.
Although relatively (per seat) more expensive to run than say a D400 it is quicker point to point once you go beyond 400nm, quieter and more reliable, overhead bin space is an issue and for many passengers the size of it is just a bit too small.
The problem for bmir (apart from confusion with the now defunct bmi) is critical mass, they seem to have kept the same bmi DNA on route selection quickly followed by deselection.
They may fair better with their Norwegian affair by way of a comparatively low cost base, at least by Norwegian standards.
Although relatively (per seat) more expensive to run than say a D400 it is quicker point to point once you go beyond 400nm, quieter and more reliable, overhead bin space is an issue and for many passengers the size of it is just a bit too small.
The problem for bmir (apart from confusion with the now defunct bmi) is critical mass, they seem to have kept the same bmi DNA on route selection quickly followed by deselection.
They may fair better with their Norwegian affair by way of a comparatively low cost base, at least by Norwegian standards.
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As an ex-pilot of BMIR I am really sad to see this airline look so weak again and my sympathies to those affected.
While DJ6 has put his argument insensitively, sadly he is right. I would extend his argument to almost every employer of aircrew (maybe) except BA and Easy. We are now just the hired help and a number, to be moved around the chess board at management behest, when it happens to you (and it has just happened to me after 10 years at an outstation) you can only hope that a few crumbs of relocation package are thrown your way. The modern mantra is a flexible workforce, this means very little security at smaller bases and less still the smaller the airline.
Someone above mentioned critical mass, and we need to think about that when choosing where we live and who we work for. Given my time again I would choose a home which gave me the maximum amount of airports within a sensible commute and try to get into the biggest base of whatever airline I'm with. I chose to do the opposite and will now be doing around 25k miles a year commuting, it really sucks!
gla
While DJ6 has put his argument insensitively, sadly he is right. I would extend his argument to almost every employer of aircrew (maybe) except BA and Easy. We are now just the hired help and a number, to be moved around the chess board at management behest, when it happens to you (and it has just happened to me after 10 years at an outstation) you can only hope that a few crumbs of relocation package are thrown your way. The modern mantra is a flexible workforce, this means very little security at smaller bases and less still the smaller the airline.
Someone above mentioned critical mass, and we need to think about that when choosing where we live and who we work for. Given my time again I would choose a home which gave me the maximum amount of airports within a sensible commute and try to get into the biggest base of whatever airline I'm with. I chose to do the opposite and will now be doing around 25k miles a year commuting, it really sucks!
gla
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It looks like one of the aircraft will be going to Newcastle to start the Brussels route next March. I can't understand why they left it a year, giving the routes regular passengers time to find alternative ways of getting to Brussels.
Last edited by Jamesair; 31st Oct 2013 at 13:49.
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FLB I understand overall the E145, but my question was more about if there's a cost benefit of the E135 over the E145, I imagine not making the E135 pretty pointless in the fleet.
Is the overall Bmir fleet being reduced?
Is the overall Bmir fleet being reduced?
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AriLcy
I think there was very little difference in operating costs, bmi regional used when first introduced 2 CC on the 145 & 1 on the 135, but over time that became 1 on both until BA acquired bmi and for a short while the 145 operated into LHR but with 2 CC
The engine on the 135 was slightly lower output, but was only a pin change, in fact running it at the same thrust as the 145 reduced fuel burn because it could get to CRZ altitude more quickly.
All of bmir 135/145 came without thrust reversers fitted, in part to save money and weight, but that was another home goal, the route profile was mainly business passengers with carry on luggage, net result was a forward C of G and we all know aircraft with a stab work better with an aft C of G, so as a result bmir became home bases best customer for 22kg blocks of concrete (used to hold the security fencing poles on building sites) normally they would fly around with approx 330KG of these in the boot (this on an aircraft with a MTOM of circa 20 t ) they did acquire some 145 with R/T fitted but these were wire locked out and latter removed for fleet commonality.
The British Midland senior management (joke) had had problems on the Fokker 100 when the R/T was used in anger requiring i think a tail spar inspection and you didn't get any performance credit for them, so they ticked the delete option
when ordering the ERJ.
They also acquired, again i think at least one ex jet Magic with steep approach kit for London City, but needed 2 to make it work, they launched Leeds LCY with a wet lease ATR 42, again midland management thought it would help the route by painting a coconut tree on tail in support of their long haul ops on the 330 to the Caribbean, it didn't and bmi baulked at the rumoured several hundred thousand $ cost of a retro fit steep approach kit, the wet performance out of LCY was ok due lower screen height, but dry was marginal i understand.
Ironically the now CP who was FM on the 146 asked the bmi powers that be many times, "are you absolutely sure you want me to remove the 146 from the AOC for ever, are you sure you'll never want to go into LCY in the future"?
I suspect if rumours are true about the 146 then LCY will be the target, but a E175 would be better…..
Anyway they have a knack of keeping going, lets hope it stays that way
The engine on the 135 was slightly lower output, but was only a pin change, in fact running it at the same thrust as the 145 reduced fuel burn because it could get to CRZ altitude more quickly.
All of bmir 135/145 came without thrust reversers fitted, in part to save money and weight, but that was another home goal, the route profile was mainly business passengers with carry on luggage, net result was a forward C of G and we all know aircraft with a stab work better with an aft C of G, so as a result bmir became home bases best customer for 22kg blocks of concrete (used to hold the security fencing poles on building sites) normally they would fly around with approx 330KG of these in the boot (this on an aircraft with a MTOM of circa 20 t ) they did acquire some 145 with R/T fitted but these were wire locked out and latter removed for fleet commonality.
The British Midland senior management (joke) had had problems on the Fokker 100 when the R/T was used in anger requiring i think a tail spar inspection and you didn't get any performance credit for them, so they ticked the delete option
when ordering the ERJ.
They also acquired, again i think at least one ex jet Magic with steep approach kit for London City, but needed 2 to make it work, they launched Leeds LCY with a wet lease ATR 42, again midland management thought it would help the route by painting a coconut tree on tail in support of their long haul ops on the 330 to the Caribbean, it didn't and bmi baulked at the rumoured several hundred thousand $ cost of a retro fit steep approach kit, the wet performance out of LCY was ok due lower screen height, but dry was marginal i understand.
Ironically the now CP who was FM on the 146 asked the bmi powers that be many times, "are you absolutely sure you want me to remove the 146 from the AOC for ever, are you sure you'll never want to go into LCY in the future"?
I suspect if rumours are true about the 146 then LCY will be the target, but a E175 would be better…..
Anyway they have a knack of keeping going, lets hope it stays that way
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If the entrenched number one player is reduced to a shadow of it's former self within seven years of BA taking LCY seriously, BM have no hope. LCY is a graveyard for most of LH's operation and all of SK, OS, flybaboo, EuroManx etc. The old 146 is not competitve against the ER7 and ER9 as WX found out, and they had the GTI version in the RJ85. The London market thinks BMI is part of history now added to the somewhat extortionate costs of operating. Indeed last week saw another casualty as Flynonstop, er stopped!
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 31st Oct 2013 at 18:51.
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BMIR
transitionlevel
Currently not bookable all of which were at some time I believe.
Ended or ending this week BHX-TLS, BRS-HAJ & EDI-ZRH
MAN-LYS 10/11
MAN-ANTWERP 29/11
EDI-MAN 29/11
BHX-BILLUND 30/11
GLA-CPH 30/12
EDI-BRU 31/12
EDI-CPH 06/1/14
BHX-GOT 29/03/14
That is a reduction of 4 aircraft by 6/1 and 5 if BHX - GOT ends
Ten routes potentially lost
Pete
Currently not bookable all of which were at some time I believe.
Ended or ending this week BHX-TLS, BRS-HAJ & EDI-ZRH
MAN-LYS 10/11
MAN-ANTWERP 29/11
EDI-MAN 29/11
BHX-BILLUND 30/11
GLA-CPH 30/12
EDI-BRU 31/12
EDI-CPH 06/1/14
BHX-GOT 29/03/14
That is a reduction of 4 aircraft by 6/1 and 5 if BHX - GOT ends
Ten routes potentially lost
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 31st Oct 2013 at 19:17.
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Very much doubt it. It would work for their corporate charters but starting up a new airport requires very big pockets and time. Oxford and cambridge aren't major successes. Southend too but easyJet has the money and time to make it work. BM most likely need cash and now. Biggin, Northolt or similar are not going to happen.