SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't Luton Airport closer to Newport Pagnell than it is to London?
Just curious why they decided to label it London/Luton rather than Newport Pagnell/Luton!
Beats me why SEN airport don't do an out of hours (Ryanair style) bus service from/to Stratford Stastion with perhaps a stop or two en route.
Just curious why they decided to label it London/Luton rather than Newport Pagnell/Luton!
Beats me why SEN airport don't do an out of hours (Ryanair style) bus service from/to Stratford Stastion with perhaps a stop or two en route.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that Stobarts have done a great job. In these times, it's brave to invest £100million into anything apart from gold and diamonds, so thumbs up to them. I get fed up with some of the comments on this forum. Always so negative or quick to criticise any good or interesting news. Only Stobart and the airlines know the facts. All of us out here are mere spectators full of guess work. So please, give them some space. The airport's expansion program is not yet completed, and yet look at the passengers figures so far this year. I am sure most will return again.
Tophat - the problem is that because Joe Public doesn't have immediate and full access to data, those bits of information which can be publicly obtained are the only ones that can be used to from opinions. Show me data in line with expectations and I'll yawn. Show me something surprising and I'm interested.
I agree most here do not have detailed access to commercially sensitive data but the CAA stats combined with comparison of historical fares shown to the public once analysed can yield an awful lot of insight. It would be very unlikely for published data to tell a different story to the private data.
I agree most here do not have detailed access to commercially sensitive data but the CAA stats combined with comparison of historical fares shown to the public once analysed can yield an awful lot of insight. It would be very unlikely for published data to tell a different story to the private data.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just curious why they decided to label it London/Luton rather than Newport Pagnell/Luton!
Luton could drop the word London from its name as could Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted and just call itself Luton Airport as most people know where it is and dropping the word Luton would not make any difference to its passenger figures.
Maybe what Southend Airport needs is a symbol or photo to be incorporated into its website, adverts and letter headings linking it to its location. Southend pier comes to mind or even a halibut.
Luton could use a Mosque complete with minarets but that would not go down well with El-Al.
No doubt the folk here could think of many other symbols Luton could use but let’s remember this is the Southend thread so would be off topic.
Last edited by LTNman; 6th Oct 2012 at 05:19.
tophat27dt
You make a good point when you say "All of us out here are mere spectators full of guesswork." That's obviously 90% true and yet you wouldn't think it from some of the opinions dressed up as facts that appear here. I believe that one of the most vociferous may not even have visited SEN this year.
However, some of us are professionally involved in matters which involve SEN in one way or another and it's often impossible to put the record straight due to commercial and operational confidentiality considerations. One example is that SEN have been criticised for not promoting the OLT Dresden route, yet I know the exact reason for this and it is a perfectly sensible position that they are taking. Before the rumour mill on that goes into overdrive, it has nothing to do with the airline's commercial or operational capabilities or any disagreement between them; it's much more simple than that.
It's always very easy to nit pick and speculate in a negative way and, forgive me for saying this, even easier from a position of ignorance of all the facts.
To end on a positive note, something I'm currently involved with should produce further good news for SEN within the next few months, resulting in an addition to the current activity.
You make a good point when you say "All of us out here are mere spectators full of guesswork." That's obviously 90% true and yet you wouldn't think it from some of the opinions dressed up as facts that appear here. I believe that one of the most vociferous may not even have visited SEN this year.
However, some of us are professionally involved in matters which involve SEN in one way or another and it's often impossible to put the record straight due to commercial and operational confidentiality considerations. One example is that SEN have been criticised for not promoting the OLT Dresden route, yet I know the exact reason for this and it is a perfectly sensible position that they are taking. Before the rumour mill on that goes into overdrive, it has nothing to do with the airline's commercial or operational capabilities or any disagreement between them; it's much more simple than that.
It's always very easy to nit pick and speculate in a negative way and, forgive me for saying this, even easier from a position of ignorance of all the facts.
To end on a positive note, something I'm currently involved with should produce further good news for SEN within the next few months, resulting in an addition to the current activity.
Recidivist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must agree with the general sentiments expressed by Tophat.
As far as I know, Stobart have not only done what they said they would do, they have also done it when they said they would, and that is to be commended.
As far as I know, Stobart have not only done what they said they would do, they have also done it when they said they would, and that is to be commended.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That Jetisfaction airline cancelled Southend and OLT have already cut the Saarbrucken service and now this and god knows what happened to that little airline from Rotterdam. I think my point is becoming more evident. Southend isn't neccessarily finding it difficult to attract airlines at the moment, but airlines like these smaller carriers (which is the only thing Southend will realistically rely on in the future) are finding it difficult to set up an operation there. At the moment, only the large and well established EasyJet and Aer lingus have successfully built up a sizeable operation so far!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Regrettably far from 50°N
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bear in mind that both Jetisfaction and OLT would have suffered the same difficulties in brand recognition had they flown from any other London airport; it is more a matter of start-up carries facing certain difficulties relating to their embryonic nature rather than the airports they choose to fly from. So I wouldn't blame SEN for their problems - Aer Lingus and easyJet have had an easier time because they are household names; Jetisfaction and OLT Express Germany, with all due respect, are not.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, it's no fault of Southend. I said airlines are attracted to it (which is the job of SEN and have done a good job so far) but haven't really made much success out of it yet (which is more the job of the airline). I think the good Eddie Stobart ownership is a thing to attract airlines but because of the runway length, I don't think you're going to get Ryanair, Monarch or a decent amount holiday charters setting up, just regional or A319/20 aircraft at best. I doubt SEN will be extending it's runway again anytime soon, so it looks like it's going to be mainly these smaller, regional airlines that SEN is going to be dealing with other than further EasyJet growth, which may be problematic for them in the future.
Last edited by FRatSTN; 6th Oct 2012 at 13:34.
FRatSTN
I think that's generally a fair view of the situation.
SEN definitely don't want RYR so that isn't a problem, while the A319/320 and most 737 marques other than the -800 can operate comfortably to the majority of Southern European destinations. That gives some scope for IT charters on the lines of the Germania 737-700 planned for next year, although these types of flights seem to diminish year by year in favour of scheduled operations, e.g. Monarch.
As far as OLT Express Germany is concerned I wouldn't be too concerned one way or the other. In my view they have rather rushed into reinventing themselves and launching numerous new routes with the sole aim of maintaining utilisation on the seven Contact Air F100s that have just joined the fleet. Too little notice at the wrong season of the year, coupled with a German-only website is hardly conducive to a successful launch of a UK route.
There is no chance of the runway ever being further extended so SEN will have to rely upon types similar to the above and newer developments such as the Bombardier C-Series for Lo-Co/IT business. Added to that will be other European regional operators on mainly niche, thinner routes and no doubt some ad hoc charter traffic. If all of that doesn't produce the 2 mppa maximum I should be very surprised. Don't forget we're not talking about another STN or LTN here so the traffic levels can remain fairly modest and still achieve that target.
Obviously the size of the initial easyJet route network took everyone by surprise and has resulted in the new terminal being too small already at peak times, so don't expect too much more expansion of traffic until 2014 when the terminal extension (more than doubling it in size) is operational. There is no way that SEN is going to risk losing its USP of being a rapid transit, user-friendly, simple to use airport in the interim.
I think that's generally a fair view of the situation.
SEN definitely don't want RYR so that isn't a problem, while the A319/320 and most 737 marques other than the -800 can operate comfortably to the majority of Southern European destinations. That gives some scope for IT charters on the lines of the Germania 737-700 planned for next year, although these types of flights seem to diminish year by year in favour of scheduled operations, e.g. Monarch.
As far as OLT Express Germany is concerned I wouldn't be too concerned one way or the other. In my view they have rather rushed into reinventing themselves and launching numerous new routes with the sole aim of maintaining utilisation on the seven Contact Air F100s that have just joined the fleet. Too little notice at the wrong season of the year, coupled with a German-only website is hardly conducive to a successful launch of a UK route.
There is no chance of the runway ever being further extended so SEN will have to rely upon types similar to the above and newer developments such as the Bombardier C-Series for Lo-Co/IT business. Added to that will be other European regional operators on mainly niche, thinner routes and no doubt some ad hoc charter traffic. If all of that doesn't produce the 2 mppa maximum I should be very surprised. Don't forget we're not talking about another STN or LTN here so the traffic levels can remain fairly modest and still achieve that target.
Obviously the size of the initial easyJet route network took everyone by surprise and has resulted in the new terminal being too small already at peak times, so don't expect too much more expansion of traffic until 2014 when the terminal extension (more than doubling it in size) is operational. There is no way that SEN is going to risk losing its USP of being a rapid transit, user-friendly, simple to use airport in the interim.
The reason the Jetisfaction operation did not take place was nothing to do with SEN or any other individual airport. The would-be airline failed to attract the start up capital it needed even though it had advertised and was taking bookings for its services and consequently has not been heard of since.
That little airline from Rotterdam presumably meaning Europort Express was nothing more than a paper airline, some would even say a fantasy airline. There are numerous such comments in this thread a few months back. It was never a serious prospect for running services to SEN or anywhere else even though its website said so.
OLT Express certainly will have a brand recognition issue in UK. They are essentially a German internal carrier and it looks like their whole customer facing profile is in German. They are in the process of expanding not only in Germany and Austria but also to BUD, CDG, MXP and SEN, so the issue they have to address will apply to France, Hungary and Italy as well as the UK. Right now they seem to have no selling engine in the UK though you can find them through flycom. So initially they are relying on German-originating traffic, and they are starting their UK services in late October. Form your own conclusions.
SEN will not be extending its runway any time at all. There are overriding locational and legislative reasons for this. It is optimised for the A319 and although larger aircraft will be able to use it they will be subject to payload/range restrictions which may not be attractive. I think everyone is well enough aware of this situation, certainly Stobarts when they embarked upon the redevelopment..
Finally, FratSTN, in one post. you state EasyJet and Aer lingus have successfully built up a sizeable operation then in the next you claim airlines are attracted to it but haven't really made much success out of it yet .
Which statement is correct and what is your factual basis for making these observations ?
That little airline from Rotterdam presumably meaning Europort Express was nothing more than a paper airline, some would even say a fantasy airline. There are numerous such comments in this thread a few months back. It was never a serious prospect for running services to SEN or anywhere else even though its website said so.
OLT Express certainly will have a brand recognition issue in UK. They are essentially a German internal carrier and it looks like their whole customer facing profile is in German. They are in the process of expanding not only in Germany and Austria but also to BUD, CDG, MXP and SEN, so the issue they have to address will apply to France, Hungary and Italy as well as the UK. Right now they seem to have no selling engine in the UK though you can find them through flycom. So initially they are relying on German-originating traffic, and they are starting their UK services in late October. Form your own conclusions.
SEN will not be extending its runway any time at all. There are overriding locational and legislative reasons for this. It is optimised for the A319 and although larger aircraft will be able to use it they will be subject to payload/range restrictions which may not be attractive. I think everyone is well enough aware of this situation, certainly Stobarts when they embarked upon the redevelopment..
Finally, FratSTN, in one post. you state EasyJet and Aer lingus have successfully built up a sizeable operation then in the next you claim airlines are attracted to it but haven't really made much success out of it yet .
Which statement is correct and what is your factual basis for making these observations ?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But, apparently, if the runway were widened SEN could increase the declared distances of the length that already exists.
Talking about width, this is from the airports own website
The runway may potentially be considered “narrow” for use by certain larger Code C aircraft (e.g. A319 etc.,) – check with the aircraft flight manual as necessary.
No one can deny Southend has a very bright future. I see its future as maybe a London City overspill airport attracting the 50-100 seat aircraft market with airlines that either can’t get the slots they want or don’t want to pay London City fees. Heathrow and now Gatwick are also turning their backs on the smaller aircraft so it is key that Southend targets this market.
I think Stobart was as surprised as everyone else that Easyjet based some aircraft there but Stobart needs to diversify with a selection of airlines or it will end up like Stansted with Ryanair holding all the cards.
Last edited by LTNman; 6th Oct 2012 at 16:46.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Tagron
Sorry that does seem quite bad wording. I'm basically saying that EasyJet and Aer Lingus have been the only two carriers so far to successfully build a sizeable operation, probably because they are more well known brands and bigger in size than these smaller/regional airlines that not many people know of like OLT.
Then what I mean is that it's the smaller, less recognised airlines like OLT who find it hard to build up successful operation, not airlines in general.
Although this may be no/very little fault of SEN, which I believe to be the case, it might be an issue for SEN in the future since it may lose traffic for reasons beyond their control since we've established that Ryanair and Monarch flights etc. are not going to happen and it's instead going to be relying on these smaller airlines who are finding it harder to set up.
Sorry that does seem quite bad wording. I'm basically saying that EasyJet and Aer Lingus have been the only two carriers so far to successfully build a sizeable operation, probably because they are more well known brands and bigger in size than these smaller/regional airlines that not many people know of like OLT.
Then what I mean is that it's the smaller, less recognised airlines like OLT who find it hard to build up successful operation, not airlines in general.
Although this may be no/very little fault of SEN, which I believe to be the case, it might be an issue for SEN in the future since it may lose traffic for reasons beyond their control since we've established that Ryanair and Monarch flights etc. are not going to happen and it's instead going to be relying on these smaller airlines who are finding it harder to set up.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ESSEX
Age: 49
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just curious can anyone tell me if Thomson are going to use Sen next year as I have tried to book it a few time's and no joy, Thomson say it's not going to happen. Unless they just want my money so I book elsewhere i.e LGW 
