SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning
I would tend to support the view that CAX-SEN twice daily might be difficult commercially unless some form of regional support with marketing etc. could be obtained.
Having said that, there are some routes which you would beforehand reckon were surefire winners and they turn out to be failures and vice versa. CAX-SEN certainly has the advantage that road travel is not competitive so it's really all down to latent demand and rail competition factors.
The Stobart ownership of both CAX and SEN, plus its part ownership of Aer Arann, must tip the balance a little towards a positive outcome but nothing is going to happen any time soon that's for sure.
Having said that, there are some routes which you would beforehand reckon were surefire winners and they turn out to be failures and vice versa. CAX-SEN certainly has the advantage that road travel is not competitive so it's really all down to latent demand and rail competition factors.
The Stobart ownership of both CAX and SEN, plus its part ownership of Aer Arann, must tip the balance a little towards a positive outcome but nothing is going to happen any time soon that's for sure.
ATR42 - say 40 seats.
Twice daily Mon-Fri, once at weekends = 12 flights a week. (Fewer would make the route unattractive to business users)
12 x 40 = 480 passengers each way, each week, every week, even November and February.
That's a very big ask, especially at decent yields.
Twice daily Mon-Fri, once at weekends = 12 flights a week. (Fewer would make the route unattractive to business users)
12 x 40 = 480 passengers each way, each week, every week, even November and February.
That's a very big ask, especially at decent yields.
Aren't RE due to get rid of the ATR-42's if/when the new 72's arrive, or will they retain one for the promised CAX-SEN and CAX-DUB services?;
Does the deal with at EI allow RE to operate flights in their own right, or will these be EIR branded flights (and what do EI think about that)?
I understand there will be no ILS at the re-developed CAX - how many flights will operate in November and February (OK, with current weather we'll add in June and July...)?
Last edited by SWBKCB; 5th Aug 2012 at 16:57.
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Cumbria is one of the most sparsely populated counties in the United Kingdom, with 73.4 people per km2 (190/sq mi
Has nothing to do with Southend but this route to any London airport with the same Southend landing fees would be a tough thin route.
There is an hourly train service that takes on average 3.23 minutes. Factor in the train travel times from London to Southend and then the check-in time the time saving would be just over an hour.
Has nothing to do with Southend but this route to any London airport with the same Southend landing fees would be a tough thin route.
There is an hourly train service that takes on average 3.23 minutes. Factor in the train travel times from London to Southend and then the check-in time the time saving would be just over an hour.
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There is an hourly train service that takes on average 3.23 minutes
NS
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Quote: "Cumbria is one of the most sparsely populated counties in the United Kingdom, with 73.4 people per km2 (190/sq mi
Has nothing to do with Southend but this route to any London airport with the same Southend landing fees would be a tough thin route.
There is an hourly train service that takes on average 3.23 minutes. Factor in the train travel times from London to Southend and then the check-in time the time saving would be just over an hour."
True, for those going city centre to city centre...
... and the price difference between rail and air?
Has nothing to do with Southend but this route to any London airport with the same Southend landing fees would be a tough thin route.
There is an hourly train service that takes on average 3.23 minutes. Factor in the train travel times from London to Southend and then the check-in time the time saving would be just over an hour."
True, for those going city centre to city centre...
... and the price difference between rail and air?
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Thanks, for the info, Barling Magna, both very reasonable, expect very early booking for the train. Expect at those prices, there's room for both, is it enough for profitability? Guess time will tell.
What a shame that SEN is so far from my house!
What a shame that SEN is so far from my house!
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LCY hits out at ruling allowing Southend to call itself a London gateway
He doth protest too much, methinks.......
He doth protest too much, methinks.......
Oh dear, poor Matthew Hall. I do hope someone has picked up all those toys and they're safely back inside the pram. Perhaps the validity of his opinion can be judged against the fact that he also claims that Luton and Stansted cannot be considered London airports: indeed he goes as far as to suggest that only City can truly claim that prefix.
One certain thing is that the time from arriving on chocks SEN to reaching Central London by train is likely to be at least as quick as an arrival at STN, LTN, or LHR can achieve. That seems a fairly good basis upon which to describe it as London Southend and I doubt that IATA made their decision lightly.
One certain thing is that the time from arriving on chocks SEN to reaching Central London by train is likely to be at least as quick as an arrival at STN, LTN, or LHR can achieve. That seems a fairly good basis upon which to describe it as London Southend and I doubt that IATA made their decision lightly.
Last edited by Expressflight; 6th Aug 2012 at 17:31.
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A regional airport an hour away from central London via the train? Just waiting for 'London Southampton Airport' now! 
Although on a more serious note Southend needs its London tag to attract passengers as few people outside the region know about 'Southend' which is really a small seaside town in Essex whereas in comparison Southampton is large city known for being one of the main Ports to/from the UK and thus is better known, hence why a London tag would not have as much of an impact and would still look silly!
Although on a more serious note Southend needs its London tag to attract passengers as few people outside the region know about 'Southend' which is really a small seaside town in Essex whereas in comparison Southampton is large city known for being one of the main Ports to/from the UK and thus is better known, hence why a London tag would not have as much of an impact and would still look silly!
Oxford is a substantial city famed throughout the world for its university. Didn't stop the airport adding a 'London' prefix to the name though ! And yes, it does look silly....
London Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - Air Travel For the Thames Valley Region, Oxfordshire & The Cotswolds
London Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - Air Travel For the Thames Valley Region, Oxfordshire & The Cotswolds
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.... a "small seaside resort".....? Have you been to Southend? I've lived in both Southampton and Southend and I can tell you that Southampton isn't much bigger in terms of metropolitan area population - Southampton about 300,000, Southend about 275,000. Certainly Southampton is known around the world and Southend isn't, but with London in front of it people will know where it is.
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I was thinking more how it is perceived by people than its actual size, and I agree the London tag is a good step forward for the airport in establishing itself and I certainly don't doubt there will be ~2 million annual pax by 2020 assuming our economy doesn't do a Greece.
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LCY
LONDON CITY AIRPORT NEED TO MIND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING ABOUT SEN,WERE DO LCY SEND THEIR DIVERTS wHEN THEIR RUNWAY IS CLOSED?ATC MIGHTSEND THEM TO SOUTHAMPTON OR ANOTHER AIRPORT THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE WORD LONDON IN FRONT OF IT
mikkie - I have no wish to comment on the message you are trying to spread, but would it be at all possible to use a mix of upper and lower case when you're typing, instead of all capitals ? For those of us with dodgy eyes, it makes it so much easier to read what you're saying...
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Even Manston Kent's International Airport was once known at London Manston Airport. Manston is 33 miles further afield from London city centre than Southend.
Source: London Manston Airport - 27 March 2008 - Roger's blog - Roger W Haworth
Source: London Manston Airport - 27 March 2008 - Roger's blog - Roger W Haworth
I happen to agree that the spread of London prefixed airport names is “faintly ridiculous”. But then LCY’s CCO is making himself “faintly ridiculous” by whingeing about it in public.
I have a much better idea. Look back to the 1950s before all this nonsense started. Then there was only one London Airport, the place we now know as Heathrow. All the other airports serving the London area would never have dreamed of calling themselves London-Croydon, -Gatwick, -Blackbushe, -Northolt,-Bovingdon etc. It was the reopening of Gatwick which was designated by the government as London’s second airport that started the rot, so we had to have London Heathrow and London Gatwick.
But the hard fact is that LHR was then and is now London’s pre-eminent airport, the one that most deserves to be use the title of London. For this reason my proposal is that Heathrow should revert to its old name of London Airport, and all the other pretenders should drop “London” and revert to their local geographical title, hence plain Gatwick, Stansted,Luton, Southend. And LCY ? It should revert to “Docklands” which was its original title before its owners renamed it.
I have a much better idea. Look back to the 1950s before all this nonsense started. Then there was only one London Airport, the place we now know as Heathrow. All the other airports serving the London area would never have dreamed of calling themselves London-Croydon, -Gatwick, -Blackbushe, -Northolt,-Bovingdon etc. It was the reopening of Gatwick which was designated by the government as London’s second airport that started the rot, so we had to have London Heathrow and London Gatwick.
But the hard fact is that LHR was then and is now London’s pre-eminent airport, the one that most deserves to be use the title of London. For this reason my proposal is that Heathrow should revert to its old name of London Airport, and all the other pretenders should drop “London” and revert to their local geographical title, hence plain Gatwick, Stansted,Luton, Southend. And LCY ? It should revert to “Docklands” which was its original title before its owners renamed it.
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LONDON AIRPORT
Why pick on SEN only? Criticise all or none of the "non-London London" airports.
It's a long and growing list: SEN, STN, MSE, LGW, LHR, OXF and LTN, with CBG, SOU, BOH and NWI and maybe one day NHT likely to jump on the bandwagon.
Wouldn't the supporters of the never-to-be-built Fantasy Island want the prefix "London" as well? It's much further out than SEN.
It's a long and growing list: SEN, STN, MSE, LGW, LHR, OXF and LTN, with CBG, SOU, BOH and NWI and maybe one day NHT likely to jump on the bandwagon.
Wouldn't the supporters of the never-to-be-built Fantasy Island want the prefix "London" as well? It's much further out than SEN.