Monarch - 3
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Apart from the staff, what are Monarch's greatest assets? I reckon their Gatwick slots, I have no idea who might be investing, but I am sure that they hold the key to the future?
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Plenty of people commenting on Monarchs Facebook page that they are booking flights. Also many comments of we hope Monarch survives as they don't like to fly with the competition. So it would appear that no publicity is bad publicity???
Bit different to comments on other carriers pages!
Bit different to comments on other carriers pages!
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Please save Monarch
How come I booked on Monarch without checking the news? The answer is emotional. They are cleaner, more comfortable and have friendlier staff than the rest. They also slotted into the changeover date and a more suitable departure time for my holiday than the 0600 the others offered. My wife does not do 0330 taxi rides to airports, or the cattle queue for a bus to some distant parking slot (and the incredibly long walk on return to the baggage claim at BHX.) It is British and Best. Long may it fly. ( sorry I have not posted in 20 years) PS I am a Pilot.
Last edited by 40 yearflyer; 1st Oct 2016 at 18:18. Reason: Puntuation
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Kaik Question
You ask if I doubt the integrity of Mon staff, I did no such thing and only those seeking fault could infer that from my post.
The staff are unknown to me and I cannot assess their demeanor
What I said, if you read it, was that our only best estimate of this mystery is to consider the international airline norm over many years so this ought to be a part of our consideration
I pointed out that the only "controlled crash" of an airline in my years in the job was BMI Baby
The staff are unknown to me and I cannot assess their demeanor
What I said, if you read it, was that our only best estimate of this mystery is to consider the international airline norm over many years so this ought to be a part of our consideration
I pointed out that the only "controlled crash" of an airline in my years in the job was BMI Baby
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Everyone is talking as if Monarch actually needs an ATOL to sell its flights. It doesn't and neither does (for example) easyJet .
From the easyJet site this evening:
"FAQ: Does easyJet have an ATOL/ABTA number?
Answer: We do not have an ATOL or ABTA number.
ABTA numbers are for members of the Association of British Travel Agents and ATOL is a protection scheme that does not apply when you book directly with an airline. If you book your flights or holiday via a travel agent or other third party ask them for their ABTA or ATOL numbers."
So let's keep things in perspective here - the press (circling like vultures as they always do for a nice juicy company failure) is basically saying that Monarch needs an ATOL licence or it is bust, but in reality ZB only actually needs this licence to sell holidays. Mon was profitable last year and expects to be so this and has submitted Companies House figures for last year and EBITDAR figures for this to support this. Plenty of other operators don't need to even have the annual conversation with the CAA over ATOL (and they thus contribute nothing to that particular holiday bail-out fund), and so we are thus deprived of the CAA's annual opinion of their finances.
easyJet (for example) sells ALL of its flight-only bookings without giving an ATOL certificate (except those asscociated with easyJet holidays, which are sold through a third party).
From the easyJet site this evening:
"FAQ: Does easyJet have an ATOL/ABTA number?
Answer: We do not have an ATOL or ABTA number.
ABTA numbers are for members of the Association of British Travel Agents and ATOL is a protection scheme that does not apply when you book directly with an airline. If you book your flights or holiday via a travel agent or other third party ask them for their ABTA or ATOL numbers."
So let's keep things in perspective here - the press (circling like vultures as they always do for a nice juicy company failure) is basically saying that Monarch needs an ATOL licence or it is bust, but in reality ZB only actually needs this licence to sell holidays. Mon was profitable last year and expects to be so this and has submitted Companies House figures for last year and EBITDAR figures for this to support this. Plenty of other operators don't need to even have the annual conversation with the CAA over ATOL (and they thus contribute nothing to that particular holiday bail-out fund), and so we are thus deprived of the CAA's annual opinion of their finances.
easyJet (for example) sells ALL of its flight-only bookings without giving an ATOL certificate (except those asscociated with easyJet holidays, which are sold through a third party).
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Long live Monarch
Skipness1echo... HNA seem to have very deep pockets. There are few companies that would seem a natural fit to buy Monarch but amazingly Greybull seem to have found one in HNA (if indeed they are the to invest) I think. Far more than just an airline investing in Monarch... Fingers crossed it all works out..
Join Date: Jun 2016
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This is from the CAA website.
What situations does ATOL cover?
ATOL protection applies to virtually any overseas air holiday booked with a UK travel company. The law says your holiday must be protected if you book a holiday with a single travel firm that includes:
flights and accommodation (including a cruise), or
flights and car hire, or
flights, accommodation and car hire.
The scheme also applies when:
You book flights (including UK domestic flights) but do not receive your tickets immediately. This is most common with charter flights, but can also apply to discounted scheduled flights. Please note that ATOL does not apply to holidays or flights booked direct with scheduled airlines.
Your holiday involves at least one flight to or from the UK. For instance, a fly/cruise break where you travel out by ship and fly home, or a holiday in France where you travel out by Eurostar but fly home.
You book a package that includes UK domestic flights
So, are Monarch 'flight only' bookings, made via their website, ATOL protected or not?
What situations does ATOL cover?
ATOL protection applies to virtually any overseas air holiday booked with a UK travel company. The law says your holiday must be protected if you book a holiday with a single travel firm that includes:
flights and accommodation (including a cruise), or
flights and car hire, or
flights, accommodation and car hire.
The scheme also applies when:
You book flights (including UK domestic flights) but do not receive your tickets immediately. This is most common with charter flights, but can also apply to discounted scheduled flights. Please note that ATOL does not apply to holidays or flights booked direct with scheduled airlines.
Your holiday involves at least one flight to or from the UK. For instance, a fly/cruise break where you travel out by ship and fly home, or a holiday in France where you travel out by Eurostar but fly home.
You book a package that includes UK domestic flights
So, are Monarch 'flight only' bookings, made via their website, ATOL protected or not?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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So, are Monarch 'flight only' bookings, made via their website, ATOL protected or not?
a) receive the ticket immediately
b) have made the booking with a scheduled airline
Same in my understanding goes for ANY online flight-only booking made with ANY airline in the UK.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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The test is whether you get an ATOL certificate when you book.
From the CAA site:
Does ATOL cover bookings made online?
Yes, as long as your holiday is one for which protection is legally required and you are booking with a UK travel company.
For instance, if you use a website's 'flights and hotel' booking option to purchase flights and accommodation at the same time, then the law says your travel company must provide ATOL protection.
However, ATOL only covers bookings made with travel companies, not those made directly with airlines.
From the CAA site:
Does ATOL cover bookings made online?
Yes, as long as your holiday is one for which protection is legally required and you are booking with a UK travel company.
For instance, if you use a website's 'flights and hotel' booking option to purchase flights and accommodation at the same time, then the law says your travel company must provide ATOL protection.
However, ATOL only covers bookings made with travel companies, not those made directly with airlines.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Assets of ZB
hmmmm
Well LGW slots would be of interest to EZ/DY for sure
Engineering business, well regarded
Maybe the AOC with EU rights to the US might be of interest to Norwegian?
Delivery slots on the MAX ?
Of course it will be none of the above
hmmmm
Well LGW slots would be of interest to EZ/DY for sure
Engineering business, well regarded
Maybe the AOC with EU rights to the US might be of interest to Norwegian?
Delivery slots on the MAX ?
Of course it will be none of the above
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Most likely an additional order of 15 on top of the 30 already on order.
I'd also expect these aircraft to be 737 MAX 9's.
I feel it would however be better to focus on what they have right now and build up from that...
I'd also expect these aircraft to be 737 MAX 9's.
I feel it would however be better to focus on what they have right now and build up from that...
Last edited by Cazza_fly; 2nd Oct 2016 at 07:58.
This order is the biggest pile of baloney you will ever have seen. Mark my words. From being on the brink to almost losing rights to sell holidays to ordering 2 billion worth of jets? A PR stunt to ride out the inevitable demise that's all this is. Investors are not idiots. There are far better and much more robust companies to invest in and most know better than us the old adage....what's the best way to make a million in aviation? ....Start of with a billion.
Let's apply some basic fishy smell sensing and business rules here.
Let's apply some basic fishy smell sensing and business rules here.
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Monarch is not 'bouncing back' with a giant plane order. It's introducing a significant risk and cost to what has become are rather shaky operation.
After a week of ups and downs (mainly downs), they come out and announce they're committing funds to replacing the fleet.
Notwithstanding the fact that the deal may have been done by previous leadership, who can possibly think it's a good idea to introduce an aircraft that does exactly the same as what the current fleet does? If the A321 are too big, get rid and replace them with A320 for which they're all trained to operate.
The company were very quiet and coy over the last week. Yet magically when it comes to splashing (customer's) cash they're singing like a canary.
Utter madness.
After a week of ups and downs (mainly downs), they come out and announce they're committing funds to replacing the fleet.
Notwithstanding the fact that the deal may have been done by previous leadership, who can possibly think it's a good idea to introduce an aircraft that does exactly the same as what the current fleet does? If the A321 are too big, get rid and replace them with A320 for which they're all trained to operate.
The company were very quiet and coy over the last week. Yet magically when it comes to splashing (customer's) cash they're singing like a canary.
Utter madness.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Anyone know who these major institutions mentioned are ? All seems a bit strange one minute there on the brink the next majpr investment coming in , Aviation is a mystery to me i have to say
Hope it all comes to fruition
Hope it all comes to fruition
Join Date: Mar 2016
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When you order a Boeing it's circa 50 mil for a basic aircraft, an Airbus will be a lot higher but will come fully equipped to meet EASA regulations.
So you can announce a bigger future order of Boeings and they look like a really good deal. But when it comes to equipping them you then have to pay through the nose for Stall Warners, RNAV capability, ACARs, Fail operational autopilot systems etc. So the aircraft end up costing 2 billion + 1 billion for add ons. But only the 2 billion goes down on paper.
Utter madness by the bean counters to not expand the A320 family fleet, it would have been a smaller deal but could have avoided huge costs in re-training and changing ops. But then I guess it made a really good PR stunt. Just an absolute pain for those staff a few years down the line who have to deal with it.
So you can announce a bigger future order of Boeings and they look like a really good deal. But when it comes to equipping them you then have to pay through the nose for Stall Warners, RNAV capability, ACARs, Fail operational autopilot systems etc. So the aircraft end up costing 2 billion + 1 billion for add ons. But only the 2 billion goes down on paper.
Utter madness by the bean counters to not expand the A320 family fleet, it would have been a smaller deal but could have avoided huge costs in re-training and changing ops. But then I guess it made a really good PR stunt. Just an absolute pain for those staff a few years down the line who have to deal with it.
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It's utter madness. Replacing a perfectly good fleet, with a fleet that does exactly the same only with requiring a vast amount of money to introduce when there's nothing wrong with the the current fleet. If the A321 is too big, switch to A320s. If the A320 is too small, spaceflex them and refit to 186Y which is only 3 seats less than the 737-800. You'll need to operate A LOT of full flights to make it worth all of the extra expense just to fly an additional three seats around.