Monarch - 3
Join Date: Jun 2008
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From what I have seen, Monarch Arline is saying they are financially strong. What they have not said is whether Moarch Holdings and/or Monarch holidays are also.
Time will tell, but what I suspect we are seeing is a possible shutdown of the Holidays operation and a need to repatriate rapidly due to suppliers such as hôtels not being paid (possibly with outstanding debts), and the airline being unable to provide the adequate additional capacity to cover all routes.
If this is the case then it leads to an interesting question of the responsibilities when the Holiday part of a holding folds (or is folded) yet the airline part continues to operate. Indeed, it would be interesting to know at what price the Holiday arm is billed for the airline flights, and when i.e. have they already been paid for the return seats?
As to the role of internet and in particular blogs, yes it accélérâtes communication, but it is not like the planes flown in are done so by stealth and it is difficult to hide a 747 on an airport from anyone who is half-trying to be observant. The risk is that posters do not make it clear as to what is fact and what is supposition or even totally unfounded. Wikipédia requires cross-references to establish where the information was sourced.
Time will tell, but what I suspect we are seeing is a possible shutdown of the Holidays operation and a need to repatriate rapidly due to suppliers such as hôtels not being paid (possibly with outstanding debts), and the airline being unable to provide the adequate additional capacity to cover all routes.
If this is the case then it leads to an interesting question of the responsibilities when the Holiday part of a holding folds (or is folded) yet the airline part continues to operate. Indeed, it would be interesting to know at what price the Holiday arm is billed for the airline flights, and when i.e. have they already been paid for the return seats?
As to the role of internet and in particular blogs, yes it accélérâtes communication, but it is not like the planes flown in are done so by stealth and it is difficult to hide a 747 on an airport from anyone who is half-trying to be observant. The risk is that posters do not make it clear as to what is fact and what is supposition or even totally unfounded. Wikipédia requires cross-references to establish where the information was sourced.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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A correction to my post above: it seems that it is Monarch Holdings who say they are financially strong and not the airline division, although I believe I have seen a post saying that the airline has been the largest contributor to profit in the recemt past.
My apologies for the misinformation.
My apologies for the misinformation.
How would you know that? Do you have access to the passenger information?
Anyway, were they 744 crew, or perhaps crew destined to operate UK schedules?
This is just the sort idle rumourmongering that will assist in sending Monarch under, along with their employees. Some spotters just won't give up will they? Hopefully your employer may find themselves in the media spotlight - imagine how you'd feel if others were indulging in idle speculation that put your job under threat.
Anyway, were they 744 crew, or perhaps crew destined to operate UK schedules?
This is just the sort idle rumourmongering that will assist in sending Monarch under, along with their employees. Some spotters just won't give up will they? Hopefully your employer may find themselves in the media spotlight - imagine how you'd feel if others were indulging in idle speculation that put your job under threat.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newcastle
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Well if holiday part was to close down they would just stop selling package holidays and by October 2017 that part of the business would be gone.
Still struggling as to why the company would want the brand to suffer.
As for management they should have just said the ATOL is paid end of story but they haven't.
Feel sorry for the crews that are reading this but if I was monarch crew I would be worried too it's not a nice thing to have to go through.
Hard to try and do you daily job excellent for pax with this all going on
Still struggling as to why the company would want the brand to suffer.
As for management they should have just said the ATOL is paid end of story but they haven't.
Feel sorry for the crews that are reading this but if I was monarch crew I would be worried too it's not a nice thing to have to go through.
Hard to try and do you daily job excellent for pax with this all going on
Join Date: Jun 2006
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United airlines crew check into hotels on a daily basis at manchester guven that united fly in daily. They also check into heathrow hotels, birmingham hotels, newcastle etc etc ...
Thats hardly evidence!!
Thats hardly evidence!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
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There were 20 odd of them got off yesterdays inbound as passengers rather than ending their shift working the inbound flight, as 20 odd went the opposite way.
That said although I believe they did arrive for "just in case" purposes I do fully believe they will not be needed and MON will announce any time license renewed....the sooner the better.
That said although I believe they did arrive for "just in case" purposes I do fully believe they will not be needed and MON will announce any time license renewed....the sooner the better.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Join Date: Jan 2002
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There is some strange 'head in sand' spotter nonsense on here! Having spoken to my mates in Monarch, I can assure you they are aware of the risks and now know 'something' serious is still ongoing!
FACT: aircraft & crews in the UK are/have been on standby for over 7 days now, payed for!
As Kyle has said, Friday will no doubt reveal lots more and I hope to god a solution, I'm also 90% sure Monarch will be operating on Saturday.
FACT: aircraft & crews in the UK are/have been on standby for over 7 days now, payed for!
As Kyle has said, Friday will no doubt reveal lots more and I hope to god a solution, I'm also 90% sure Monarch will be operating on Saturday.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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There's still over 7 aircraft on standby across Europe, with crews in place to operate these flights (United 744 crew at MAN included). There's more than Just United/Omni/Air Transat included in these rescue flights, which it seems no one has noticed yet.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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There seems to be a complete misunderstanding of the issues.
As a retired senior airline executive , I would like to add my ideas.
1. Monarch ( ATOL) is still selling package holidays, to repatriate these pax
will take some weeks if the ATOL is cancelled at midnight tomorrow.
2. If the ATOL is cancelled there is nothing to prevent the airline (ZB)
TO FLY as a lowcost carrier , providing the Airline is not in breach of
its AOC and a sound business plan is in place.
.
The percentage split flight only against tour operating is of course the key.
Maybe someone should look at Companies House to check latest
filings. ( Airline and Monarch Holidays ).
If the Package side is dropped I am sure a light weight cost Carrier can rise
from the ashes.
THE AIRLINE IS TOO GOOD TO VANISH.
As a retired senior airline executive , I would like to add my ideas.
1. Monarch ( ATOL) is still selling package holidays, to repatriate these pax
will take some weeks if the ATOL is cancelled at midnight tomorrow.
2. If the ATOL is cancelled there is nothing to prevent the airline (ZB)
TO FLY as a lowcost carrier , providing the Airline is not in breach of
its AOC and a sound business plan is in place.
.
The percentage split flight only against tour operating is of course the key.
Maybe someone should look at Companies House to check latest
filings. ( Airline and Monarch Holidays ).
If the Package side is dropped I am sure a light weight cost Carrier can rise
from the ashes.
THE AIRLINE IS TOO GOOD TO VANISH.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Warrior28
I have read in this thread or from Monarch that over 6m pax are carried of which about 800000 are as part of the Holidays operation. I have not been able to ascertain whether these are one-way or round-trips but whatever, it looks as if Holidays is probably about 15% of pax carried.
Also, I have no idea how average revenue from a holidays pax compares with a seat-only ticket so revenue per market could be higher or lower in the above percentage terms.
Monarch was very clear in the past that they wanted to evolve into a scheduled carrier and I believe have done what was needed to structure costs in line with expected revenus, so yes, dropping holidays could actually strengthen the group in the long term (at least on a unit-margin basis). What was perhas an error was to rebrand Cosmos as Monarch Holidays which, if closed or spun-off, could indeed do the brand short-term damage if it is not handled well.
I have read in this thread or from Monarch that over 6m pax are carried of which about 800000 are as part of the Holidays operation. I have not been able to ascertain whether these are one-way or round-trips but whatever, it looks as if Holidays is probably about 15% of pax carried.
Also, I have no idea how average revenue from a holidays pax compares with a seat-only ticket so revenue per market could be higher or lower in the above percentage terms.
Monarch was very clear in the past that they wanted to evolve into a scheduled carrier and I believe have done what was needed to structure costs in line with expected revenus, so yes, dropping holidays could actually strengthen the group in the long term (at least on a unit-margin basis). What was perhas an error was to rebrand Cosmos as Monarch Holidays which, if closed or spun-off, could indeed do the brand short-term damage if it is not handled well.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Just checked CAA stats.
Total Group authorised ( First Aviation/Cosmos/Avro) C 2.75 M pax , so maybe 800,000
on low side or they have over estimated their bonding requirements ???
Total Group authorised ( First Aviation/Cosmos/Avro) C 2.75 M pax , so maybe 800,000
on low side or they have over estimated their bonding requirements ???
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Do they not need:
1 - An ATOL bond for package holidays
2 - A bond against the OL which is determined by a liquidity check completed by ERG at the CAA ???
I thought those not operating charters or scheduled flights still require a bond for Type A licences regardless ? or if you pay the ATOL you don't need an AOC/OL bond ? I.E 3 months of working capital and no income or thereabouts ?
1 - An ATOL bond for package holidays
2 - A bond against the OL which is determined by a liquidity check completed by ERG at the CAA ???
I thought those not operating charters or scheduled flights still require a bond for Type A licences regardless ? or if you pay the ATOL you don't need an AOC/OL bond ? I.E 3 months of working capital and no income or thereabouts ?
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Warrior28
Which year was that?
However, the plot thickens as when I search Cosmos Holidays I get "Holiday Hypermarket" which is a TUI subsidiary, although it states that Cosmos is now Monarch Holidays. Is Holiday Hypermarket just a shop for other's Holidays or do they need an ATOL? Is Globus still involved?
Which year was that?
However, the plot thickens as when I search Cosmos Holidays I get "Holiday Hypermarket" which is a TUI subsidiary, although it states that Cosmos is now Monarch Holidays. Is Holiday Hypermarket just a shop for other's Holidays or do they need an ATOL? Is Globus still involved?
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Also, what is the role of First Aviation as, although it appears under the Monarch (Holdings?) brand, it appears to lease capacity only to tour operators. As it doesn't appear to be an airline, presumably it is operating as a kind of broker or possibly intermediary. Indeed, do some/all Monarch Holidays seats go through First Aviation and thus may not be on Monarch Airlines flights?
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Regardless of legal entities and minimum requirements, if Monarch can't sort out the ATOL point within 24 hours, its brand is knackered.
The last press release by them was Monday, it's now Thursday night and the funding is still not sorted. I would hope it would be done tonight as everyone will be getting very tired, or a sale announced.
The last press release by them was Monday, it's now Thursday night and the funding is still not sorted. I would hope it would be done tonight as everyone will be getting very tired, or a sale announced.
