Monarch - 3
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I'm not sure if not having ATOL = insolvency
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Janey, I believe there are two ATOL's. One for flight only sales through the 'Monarch.co.uk' website under the umbrella of First Aviation, and another for packaged sales under 'Cosmos/Monarch Holidays'.
Monarch flight only sales are ATOL protected if ex-UK.
Monarch flight only sales are ATOL protected if ex-UK.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Janey, I believe there are two ATOL's. One for flight only sales through the 'Monarch.co.uk' website under the umbrella of First Aviation, and another for packaged sales under 'Cosmos/Monarch Holidays'.
Monarch flight only sales are ATOL protected if ex-UK.
Monarch flight only sales are ATOL protected if ex-UK.
Yes, the first flight has to originate in the UK to be protected but obviously the inbound is protected when booked all on one ticket.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I find this a rather strange event in UK aviation history, i can recall nothing like it and it must be very worrying for Monarch employees.
The CAA are many things, but they are normally very measured in the actions they take unless there is a direct and immediate safety threat, that is unlikely to be the case here.
Grey bull are no doubt used to brinkmanship, its the nature of their business in dealing/buying distressed assets, but they have been around long enough and in this industry long enough to know that with out the appropriate licences to operate in a heavily regulated industry, then their assets can quickly be sized to pay debts.
As to Monarch itself, the people i know that work there say its still closer to a legacy airline than say Ryanair or easyJet in terms of its efficiency or cost base, but a long way from the halcyon days of yore, we know that when Greybull acquired them that they were incredibly lucky with their timing, Monarch i'm told did not have the financial assets to secure forward hedging on fuel and when the fuel price collapsed they got an immediate advantage over hedged rivals.
Talk of a Jet2 buyout is in my view very unlikely, they were closely involved with bmibaby in its dying throes and watched it die then pick up many of the routes and crew without paying for any risky investment, why would they see Monarch differently? plus they have just taken on a huge gamble with expanding at both BHX and STN i doubt they have the stomach or money to take Monarch, same probably applies to Norwegian and easyJet who have not had a good year, it would be petty cash money for FR but not their style either, anyone from outside the EU will have ownership issues.
So its probably down to Greybull to find the money or another investor, good luck to all
The CAA are many things, but they are normally very measured in the actions they take unless there is a direct and immediate safety threat, that is unlikely to be the case here.
Grey bull are no doubt used to brinkmanship, its the nature of their business in dealing/buying distressed assets, but they have been around long enough and in this industry long enough to know that with out the appropriate licences to operate in a heavily regulated industry, then their assets can quickly be sized to pay debts.
As to Monarch itself, the people i know that work there say its still closer to a legacy airline than say Ryanair or easyJet in terms of its efficiency or cost base, but a long way from the halcyon days of yore, we know that when Greybull acquired them that they were incredibly lucky with their timing, Monarch i'm told did not have the financial assets to secure forward hedging on fuel and when the fuel price collapsed they got an immediate advantage over hedged rivals.
Talk of a Jet2 buyout is in my view very unlikely, they were closely involved with bmibaby in its dying throes and watched it die then pick up many of the routes and crew without paying for any risky investment, why would they see Monarch differently? plus they have just taken on a huge gamble with expanding at both BHX and STN i doubt they have the stomach or money to take Monarch, same probably applies to Norwegian and easyJet who have not had a good year, it would be petty cash money for FR but not their style either, anyone from outside the EU will have ownership issues.
So its probably down to Greybull to find the money or another investor, good luck to all
Join Date: Feb 2001
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And the ATOL deposit should roll from one year to another. Me thinks this is bigger than just the Ł5m deposit.
ZB Spanish capacity up 20+% this year with a 10% demand uptake and falling yields means that late summer profits were stretched.
ZB Spanish capacity up 20+% this year with a 10% demand uptake and falling yields means that late summer profits were stretched.
Well well I come back to civilization after a few days away, I find chicken Licken is running around shouting that the sky is falling in.
For the purpose of the exercise insert the name of an airline, any airline, run a shadow repat schedule and a logistics fulfillment scenario,some one will pick up on it ,read more into the financial situation ( faced by nearly all operators ) In the old days rumor did not become reality through idle chat and speculation, now if it is repeated enough it will be accepted as the truth and the horses well and truly frightened.
If an airline goes it will go very quickly and with very little advance public notice.
For the purpose of the exercise insert the name of an airline, any airline, run a shadow repat schedule and a logistics fulfillment scenario,some one will pick up on it ,read more into the financial situation ( faced by nearly all operators ) In the old days rumor did not become reality through idle chat and speculation, now if it is repeated enough it will be accepted as the truth and the horses well and truly frightened.
If an airline goes it will go very quickly and with very little advance public notice.
Having sold their 330s, they don't have long haul capacity to mitigate some of the damage done by Egypt, Tunisia, Turkey etc becoming shall we say "unappealing" to tourists due to recent events in the same way that Thomson and Tommy Cook can.
I wish them well, and more importantly I wish all their employees well. Hope there'll be an end to the rumours and speculation soon. Chin up guys and gals, keep fighting.
I wish them well, and more importantly I wish all their employees well. Hope there'll be an end to the rumours and speculation soon. Chin up guys and gals, keep fighting.
Just a simple answer to those who still think as a conspiranoia the fact only North American WB metal are doing the stand-by task and almost no european carrier except an A330 of portuguese HiFly (United, Omni, Atlas, etc). All resumes in a simple 4 letter word »»» Hajj
Well well I come back to civilization after a few days away, I find chicken Licken is running around shouting that the sky is falling in.
For the purpose of the exercise insert the name of an airline, any airline, run a shadow repat schedule and a logistics fulfillment scenario,some one will pick up on it ,read more into the financial situation ( faced by nearly all operators ) In the old days rumor did not become reality through idle chat and speculation, now if it is repeated enough it will be accepted as the truth and the horses well and truly frightened.
If an airline goes it will go very quickly and with very little advance public notice.
For the purpose of the exercise insert the name of an airline, any airline, run a shadow repat schedule and a logistics fulfillment scenario,some one will pick up on it ,read more into the financial situation ( faced by nearly all operators ) In the old days rumor did not become reality through idle chat and speculation, now if it is repeated enough it will be accepted as the truth and the horses well and truly frightened.
If an airline goes it will go very quickly and with very little advance public notice.
How, pre-FR24 and internet fora would anyone have found out and had the means to broadcast the chartering of aircraft by the CAA last weekend?
Is the world a better place as a result? Personally I doubt it, but we are where we are, and the clock ain't being turned back any time soon!
Join Date: May 2011
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On the flip side for everyone, if you were a betting man, it's a very good time to book flights with Monarch for later this year. Their flight prices have been smashed right down on many routes.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Have Monarch actually reduced prices?
Surely that just makes matters worse - it directly impacts profit, sends further messages out re desperation. Yes it helps short term cash ( subject to credit card companies) but I think it spooks people more.
Surely that just makes matters worse - it directly impacts profit, sends further messages out re desperation. Yes it helps short term cash ( subject to credit card companies) but I think it spooks people more.
Anyway, were they 744 crew, or perhaps crew destined to operate UK schedules?
This is just the sort idle rumourmongering that will assist in sending Monarch under, along with their employees. Some spotters just won't give up will they? Hopefully your employer may find themselves in the media spotlight - imagine how you'd feel if others were indulging in idle speculation that put your job under threat.
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I think many people here are living a little in the past- we live in a world where internet access means lots of people and the media have lots of access to lots of information and the media will use it to stay in business.
The real fault here is with Monarch management who have said nothing to dispel this and made no statement as to the airline's actual position - and appear to have mis-mananged the company (or perhaps got into to something they shouldn't have when they bought it). I can't imagine the management of Ryanair, BA EasyJet getting into this mess.
As for Monarch slashing prices- they may not have to; their yield management system may do it for them to try to keep the aeroplanes full.
The real fault here is with Monarch management who have said nothing to dispel this and made no statement as to the airline's actual position - and appear to have mis-mananged the company (or perhaps got into to something they shouldn't have when they bought it). I can't imagine the management of Ryanair, BA EasyJet getting into this mess.
As for Monarch slashing prices- they may not have to; their yield management system may do it for them to try to keep the aeroplanes full.
The real fault here is with Monarch management who have said nothing to dispel this and made no statement as to the airline's actual position - and appear to have mis-mananged the company (or perhaps got into to something they shouldn't have when they bought it). I can't imagine the management of Ryanair, BA EasyJet getting into this mess.
Had they said they were in the brown sticky stuff, and negotiating with financiers to save the business they would have gone bankrupt.
They did, as I recall, say the business is operating profitably, and that talks were underway to secure further investment (dosh to you and I!). That, I would say was a fair assessment of their situation, without, to use a political cliche, "giving a running commentary".
The carriers you mention would have exactly the same dilemma, and the commentators would generally only want to believe their version of the truth, be it fact, or fiction.