Northolt could become Heathrow's 3rd runway
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Northolt could become Heathrow's 3rd runway
Ministry of Defence considering selling off all or parts of one of its oldest airfields, which could become Heathrow satellite
RAF Northolt may be sold to raise defence funds | UK news | The Guardian
RAF Northolt may be sold to raise defence funds | UK news | The Guardian
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This could be a very good idea, Let Northolt take short haul / domestic and connect to Heathrow with a high speed rail link/monorail. It could route out toward Uxbridge then alongside M25 towards junction 15.
Much better sense than building a new airport in the Thames estuary.
Much better sense than building a new airport in the Thames estuary.
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My God ! How come nobody ever thought of that! All you would need is a dedicated hi-speed underground/overground shuttle.
Hang on, maybe it has been thought of already, let me check these papers [shuffle, shuffle] - Yes - no - that one was about Redhill being used as Gatwick's second runway.
That particular stone has been re-turned, more than once.
Hang on, maybe it has been thought of already, let me check these papers [shuffle, shuffle] - Yes - no - that one was about Redhill being used as Gatwick's second runway.
That particular stone has been re-turned, more than once.
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This could be a very good idea, Let Northolt take short haul / domestic and connect to Heathrow with a high speed rail link/monorail. It could
So suggesting that LHR passengers should connect over the horizon in Northolt via a train, many times longer than the T5 shuttle is not realistic.
Similar tantrums are thrown at LGW if one has to connect to the North Terminal, over there, out that window, in plain sight.
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Satellite for Heathrow - Never in a million years!
This reporter does not live in the area! A big increase in VVIP traffic like Farnborough - YES!
This reporter does not live in the area! A big increase in VVIP traffic like Farnborough - YES!
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Skipless,
Considering that the planes themselves often park almost next to each other, has there ever been consideration to providing an airside link from T5C directly into the Central complex, thus avoiding such a detour?
Or is joined up thinking between airlines which would far rather compete with each other than co-operate (although still no shortage of Oneworld from T3 etc) too much to hope for?
In the real world, people HATE, HATE, HATE with a PASSION beyond reason, connecting from T5C as it's too far to T5A
Or is joined up thinking between airlines which would far rather compete with each other than co-operate (although still no shortage of Oneworld from T3 etc) too much to hope for?
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It seems to me that the majority of people on here pedalling the idea of LGW or Northolt being part of a super hub have no idea how transit traffic works?
Whilst it might just be possible to create a secure network between these locations and treat the train/mono rail as airside, it would be very expensive and difficult in practice because you would have non EU pax and domestic trying to move between terminals.
We must not forget that CDG & AMS do all this on site and yes 18R at AMS is a bloody long way from the terminal but it's still on site.
The only sensible solution has be excluded ie R3, Boris island has merit, but it's a twenty year 50bn programe that the UK can't fund right now,R3 meanwhile could be up and running by 2016 without a penny of tax payers money creating a lot of jobs in the current parliament.
How they would deal with the U turn is another matter!
Whilst it might just be possible to create a secure network between these locations and treat the train/mono rail as airside, it would be very expensive and difficult in practice because you would have non EU pax and domestic trying to move between terminals.
We must not forget that CDG & AMS do all this on site and yes 18R at AMS is a bloody long way from the terminal but it's still on site.
The only sensible solution has be excluded ie R3, Boris island has merit, but it's a twenty year 50bn programe that the UK can't fund right now,R3 meanwhile could be up and running by 2016 without a penny of tax payers money creating a lot of jobs in the current parliament.
How they would deal with the U turn is another matter!
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FLB,
They couldn't. Justine Greening has bought a token piece of land to show her support for anti-LHR campaigners. She could be moved on, but.....
There is a deluded belief very high up in govt that HS2 is a replacement for LHR3, even through the former improves the case for the latter!
However, I still don't think LHR can get its third runway, partly because of the huge noise footprint it already has, but also because there are too many marginal seats that would scream blue murder if it went ahead.
They are going to consult on Boris Island and the utterly pointless Heathwick - but they may well find that doing so will result in challenges to re-open the case for expansion at all London airports.
Whatever the technical merits, a runway at Gatwick would not cause the same political backlash, as seats around it are already blue - and afaik reasonably safe. So what will they do - run to UKIP?
Even with all the outrage over HS2, I think UKIP have picked up maybe 3 councillors?
LGW's footprint is tiny, but I don't think the idea of a megahub would work. Where else does it work? Twin hubs do work in places, and they have to be more acceptable than the domestic-international theme that seems quite popular in Asia - although these are getting watered down too.
If the £5bn earmarked for Heathwick was put towards a faster through connection from LGW to the other side of Zone 1 - then LGW's otherwise disadvantageous position could be neutralised.
I just can't see how two totally detached sets of runways and terminal could work, but this government will consider anything (and I say that as one of them).
How they would deal with the U turn is another matter!
There is a deluded belief very high up in govt that HS2 is a replacement for LHR3, even through the former improves the case for the latter!
However, I still don't think LHR can get its third runway, partly because of the huge noise footprint it already has, but also because there are too many marginal seats that would scream blue murder if it went ahead.
They are going to consult on Boris Island and the utterly pointless Heathwick - but they may well find that doing so will result in challenges to re-open the case for expansion at all London airports.
Whatever the technical merits, a runway at Gatwick would not cause the same political backlash, as seats around it are already blue - and afaik reasonably safe. So what will they do - run to UKIP?
Even with all the outrage over HS2, I think UKIP have picked up maybe 3 councillors?
LGW's footprint is tiny, but I don't think the idea of a megahub would work. Where else does it work? Twin hubs do work in places, and they have to be more acceptable than the domestic-international theme that seems quite popular in Asia - although these are getting watered down too.
If the £5bn earmarked for Heathwick was put towards a faster through connection from LGW to the other side of Zone 1 - then LGW's otherwise disadvantageous position could be neutralised.
I just can't see how two totally detached sets of runways and terminal could work, but this government will consider anything (and I say that as one of them).
Paxing All Over The World
Never going to happen and it has been well chewed over in the past.
I can only repeat, no new runway will be built in the South East of England in the next 15 years and probably longer.
- The Nimby's of Northolt are well healed and if you think the citizens of Sipson whipped up a storm - wait to see this lot!
- As Skipness says, folks have no idea about how much time to leave getting across one terminal, leave alone a T1-T4/5 connection. Asking them to take a fast train to Terminal N, that takes a bit longer? Nah. They will belly ache all day long and spread very bad publicity for EGLL.
I can only repeat, no new runway will be built in the South East of England in the next 15 years and probably longer.
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Northolt could be Heathrow's 3rd runway
Looking at Northolt's stats - it shows the runway length as 5535 feet, and if my memory serve me right i do not think there is any room for expansion, plus the local residents would be up in arms i am sure if a proposal for a runway extension was made..
Paxing All Over The World
IIRC, the last time I read about this idea, was for Northolt to be the UK domestic terminal. So if folks were just coming down from the North to London, then straight into town on A40 or the Central Line etc. If needing to Hub, then express above/below link into the central area.
If just serving as Domestic or other SH to near neighbouring places like AMS etc, then the runway might suffice?
That's why I think it makes sense as a kind of La Guardia - only not as close to the City !
If you wanted to extend SW, then you have to drop the A40 and a railway line into tunnels, if you tried to expand NE then you start ploughing houses.
That's why I think it will not happen.
If just serving as Domestic or other SH to near neighbouring places like AMS etc, then the runway might suffice?
That's why I think it makes sense as a kind of La Guardia - only not as close to the City !
If you wanted to extend SW, then you have to drop the A40 and a railway line into tunnels, if you tried to expand NE then you start ploughing houses.
That's why I think it will not happen.
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jabird - you're one of the government? Well for pity's sake get them to listen to leading economists and re-think their fast cut/no growth policies which are leading us back into recession. And I speak as one who voted for them, and now isn't so sure.... Gordon Brown's 2.1% growth in 2010 doesn't look so bad now...
Also, get the government to re-think LHR's third runway. The enquiry must, surely, decide that is the best solution. Maybe Northolt could be used by flyBE and other airline's turboprops providing schedules from regions which have lost their LHR schedules over the years? Those customers might be prepared to travel the four miles from Northolt to Heathrow if it meant getting a useful London schedule back......
Also, get the government to re-think LHR's third runway. The enquiry must, surely, decide that is the best solution. Maybe Northolt could be used by flyBE and other airline's turboprops providing schedules from regions which have lost their LHR schedules over the years? Those customers might be prepared to travel the four miles from Northolt to Heathrow if it meant getting a useful London schedule back......
If you wanted to extend SW, then you have to drop the A40 and a railway line into tunnels,
Current problem with Northolt:-
http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/L...K,1996_(RE_HF)
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Considering that the planes themselves often park almost next to each other, has there ever been consideration to providing an airside link from T5C directly into the Central complex, thus avoiding such a detour?
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 26th Jan 2012 at 10:49.
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Jabird, suspect that the long term plan is probably to link the transit from Heathrow 5A/B/C to a potential "5D" and to a rebuilt Heathrow 3 (particularly for BA/oneworld transfers) and eventually to the new Heathrow1/2 and its various satelites.
A parallel landside route including the central bus/railway station would also make sense. It would certainly be far more convenient than ferrying pax around on a fleet of buses. On the other hand this may be just a bit too much joined-up thinking, or just too expensive.
Barling Magna, your comments about domestic turboprops such as Flybe using NHT to restore thin domestic routes that used to operate out of LHR could be a "permanent" temporary arrangement, until such time as LHR gets its two extra runways (could be a very long wait regretably).
Could NHT be a shared military/civil airport, like Newquay and Frankfurt used to be, and Don Muang (Bangkok) still is?
NHT is limited in growth potential so any monorail over the A312 between LHR and NHT would need to also link in to existing rail and underground lines at both ends and to the HS2 at the Northolt end.
Anyone notice the pigs flying overhead!
A parallel landside route including the central bus/railway station would also make sense. It would certainly be far more convenient than ferrying pax around on a fleet of buses. On the other hand this may be just a bit too much joined-up thinking, or just too expensive.
Barling Magna, your comments about domestic turboprops such as Flybe using NHT to restore thin domestic routes that used to operate out of LHR could be a "permanent" temporary arrangement, until such time as LHR gets its two extra runways (could be a very long wait regretably).
Could NHT be a shared military/civil airport, like Newquay and Frankfurt used to be, and Don Muang (Bangkok) still is?
NHT is limited in growth potential so any monorail over the A312 between LHR and NHT would need to also link in to existing rail and underground lines at both ends and to the HS2 at the Northolt end.
Anyone notice the pigs flying overhead!
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Um..I can just see it now."Ladies and gentleman welcome to Heathrow England please now queue to board your coach to Northolt 7 miles away for your connecting flight.
Just for that reason with airline alliances it will never happen.
Nigel
Just for that reason with airline alliances it will never happen.
Nigel
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Walnut
I believe this is a very sensible idea, It is much cheaper than Boris Island and much closer to either the capital or the current main London airport.
It should be purely domestic only, helping the immigration headaches, and have a high speed monorail transit to LHR terminals. ie a loop through the central area T4 & T5.
The runway is long enough for the operations envisaged.
People suggest that distances are too great, but just go to Atlanta for example. Boris Island pax, even with the speedy communications envisiged would take far longer to reach the capital & most importantly it is out on a limb re its catchment area. Imagine having to transit the capital to go to almost anywhere else in the UK.
The HS2 whilst difficult to justify would make more sense if a terminal was created at Northolt, so traffic could come up from LHR via the monorail to then connect onwards.
Lastly I believe this project could be up and running within 5yrs
It should be purely domestic only, helping the immigration headaches, and have a high speed monorail transit to LHR terminals. ie a loop through the central area T4 & T5.
The runway is long enough for the operations envisaged.
People suggest that distances are too great, but just go to Atlanta for example. Boris Island pax, even with the speedy communications envisiged would take far longer to reach the capital & most importantly it is out on a limb re its catchment area. Imagine having to transit the capital to go to almost anywhere else in the UK.
The HS2 whilst difficult to justify would make more sense if a terminal was created at Northolt, so traffic could come up from LHR via the monorail to then connect onwards.
Lastly I believe this project could be up and running within 5yrs
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Walnut,
There is enough congestion in the air around LHR and LCY as it is, Now its being suggested to hugely increase air traffic in the form of airliners into Northolt with all the extra spacing, and airspace ?
A large amount of passengers using LHR connect with their alliance partners and now its being muted to bus them 7 miles through heavy road traffic from LHR to Northholt after a long flight,... and thats going to be acceptable to business passengers.
Nigel
There is enough congestion in the air around LHR and LCY as it is, Now its being suggested to hugely increase air traffic in the form of airliners into Northolt with all the extra spacing, and airspace ?
A large amount of passengers using LHR connect with their alliance partners and now its being muted to bus them 7 miles through heavy road traffic from LHR to Northholt after a long flight,... and thats going to be acceptable to business passengers.
Nigel
There is enough congestion in the air around LHR and LCY as it is, Now its being suggested to hugely increase air traffic in the form of airliners into Northolt with all the extra spacing, and airspace