NEWQUAY
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Oh skipness I do love the tone of your posts !
Anyone would think that your opinion on the world of aviation is spot on and everyone else's isn't !
As we're being blunt and rude and out of order to each other, have you actually read the post to which I, a simple humble Cornishman with clearly no right to teansport links was replying ?
No, I didn't think so !
Perhaps you should and while your at it take some chill pills and learn some manors.
cs
Anyone would think that your opinion on the world of aviation is spot on and everyone else's isn't !
As we're being blunt and rude and out of order to each other, have you actually read the post to which I, a simple humble Cornishman with clearly no right to teansport links was replying ?
No, I didn't think so !
Perhaps you should and while your at it take some chill pills and learn some manors.
cs
Groundhog is right, remember the Green Brigade will be demanding more trains not planes. One upside might finally be improvements to rail services to the West Country from London. If DND-STN gets a PSO, I would imagine NQY-LGW would be a good bet.
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Pretty much the same as your close NQY down, you live in Cornwall it's your tough luck, you don't deserve transport links opinion ey ?
You keep banging your drum and ill keep banging mine.
However, you did not read the OP that was being replied too.
cs
You keep banging your drum and ill keep banging mine.
However, you did not read the OP that was being replied too.
cs
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Simon if it's losing so much money then at some point you have to ask what's the point? I am from Scotland so know well how remote transport links are crucial but there needs to be a sound realism and sensible commercial footing, of which NQY under CCC has neither. I have nothing against Cornwall, I just express the obvious sentiment that if you want the world to come and see you, then living somewhere less remote tends to help, and a LHR slot is not a right, it has to have some ROI.
No one said it's about "deserving", but you won't get your ideal as the market won't support your ideal twice daily BA A319 as your airport carries some 33% less traffic than Humberside. Some realism please?
No one said it's about "deserving", but you won't get your ideal as the market won't support your ideal twice daily BA A319 as your airport carries some 33% less traffic than Humberside. Some realism please?
It's worth noting from the CAA Dec 2013 provisional stats:
Newquay - 175,147 passengers
Inverness - 604,098 passengers
Jersey - 1,433,809 passengers
Jersey airport gets over 8 times the passengers of Newquay. With all the offshore finance, it presumably also has a lot of accountants, bankers, lawyers and wealthy people travelling to/from the island. The Jersey-Zurich route presumably exists for this reason.
Of course, Jersey being an island is even more reliant on air transport than Newquay. However, while BA are happy to run a Gatwick-Jersey route, they seem to show no intention of running a Heathrow-Jersey route.
Inverness is even more remote than Newquay from London. A train to Edinburgh takes 3h30. BA don't serve Inverness from London at all - it will become reliant entirely on Easyjet for a London air connection in 6 weeks time.
If Newquay is to have a Heathrow route, there needs to be a very good reason for this to exist. If Newquay wants to use PSO cash, it becomes even harder to make a case for a Heathrow-Newquay route.
Newquay - 175,147 passengers
Inverness - 604,098 passengers
Jersey - 1,433,809 passengers
Jersey airport gets over 8 times the passengers of Newquay. With all the offshore finance, it presumably also has a lot of accountants, bankers, lawyers and wealthy people travelling to/from the island. The Jersey-Zurich route presumably exists for this reason.
Of course, Jersey being an island is even more reliant on air transport than Newquay. However, while BA are happy to run a Gatwick-Jersey route, they seem to show no intention of running a Heathrow-Jersey route.
Inverness is even more remote than Newquay from London. A train to Edinburgh takes 3h30. BA don't serve Inverness from London at all - it will become reliant entirely on Easyjet for a London air connection in 6 weeks time.
If Newquay is to have a Heathrow route, there needs to be a very good reason for this to exist. If Newquay wants to use PSO cash, it becomes even harder to make a case for a Heathrow-Newquay route.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 19th Feb 2014 at 02:17.
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Cornish Simon -
I am no aviation professional, common sense would show that as the load factors are declining for the 'low cost carriers' at Newquay, what makes you think British Airways will pick up a route to Newquay, because at the moment if there is any chance of Newquay having a service to London it will depend on the cost (Bearing in mind B.A. is a full service airline = higher fares + ADF). Not to mention the limited slot availabilities at Heathrow itself, where B.A have more favourable, money making routes.
At the end of the day it's a tough old business, if a route won't work for one or two airlines there is a low chance of it working for others, no matter how big or small. Also PSO's are only put in place if there is a satisfactory level of usage by the public, unless you get some silly MP spending out on another 'Rolls-Royce' project.
The only possibility of seeing a regular service from Newquay to London will be when people have more wonga in their back pocket, when the economy actually goes into full swing again, at the moment it is pretty stagnant out there
I am no aviation professional, common sense would show that as the load factors are declining for the 'low cost carriers' at Newquay, what makes you think British Airways will pick up a route to Newquay, because at the moment if there is any chance of Newquay having a service to London it will depend on the cost (Bearing in mind B.A. is a full service airline = higher fares + ADF). Not to mention the limited slot availabilities at Heathrow itself, where B.A have more favourable, money making routes.
At the end of the day it's a tough old business, if a route won't work for one or two airlines there is a low chance of it working for others, no matter how big or small. Also PSO's are only put in place if there is a satisfactory level of usage by the public, unless you get some silly MP spending out on another 'Rolls-Royce' project.
The only possibility of seeing a regular service from Newquay to London will be when people have more wonga in their back pocket, when the economy actually goes into full swing again, at the moment it is pretty stagnant out there
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I think you will find the original question was IF there was a subsidised route to Cornwall would it not be better to have it to LHR not LGW since twice as many people use that airport. In Simon's defence he WAS answering the original question and as he lives here I suggest he knows the scene and has never claimed to know the solution. We all have a view on what we would like to see but let us all agree once and for all what we could see?
If anyone doesn't agree with any of the following, shout now..
There are no slots at LHR or LGW
A LHR service is not viable on cost
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time
Am I right so far?
If anyone doesn't agree with any of the following, shout now..
There are no slots at LHR or LGW
A LHR service is not viable on cost
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time
Am I right so far?
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There are no slots at LHR or LGW - Agreed
A LHR service is not viable on cost - Agreed
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost - Agreed
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough - Hmm - 'half a loaf is better than no bread' mean anything?
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency - Agreed; therefore Dash 8-300 would seem to fit the bill
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time - Shout! What about Southend? OK, its on the 'other side' but train links into The City are as good as (if not better than) LHR, LGW, STN and LTN. No slot issues, plenty of capacity, airport management wanting (at a guess) to consolidate their growth position; great modern facilities now (new terminal extension open only last week). And Flybe are going be running that route in the summer; they operate Dash 8-300s. So how about picking up the ball out of the scrum NOW and running with it?
A LHR service is not viable on cost - Agreed
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost - Agreed
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough - Hmm - 'half a loaf is better than no bread' mean anything?
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency - Agreed; therefore Dash 8-300 would seem to fit the bill
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time - Shout! What about Southend? OK, its on the 'other side' but train links into The City are as good as (if not better than) LHR, LGW, STN and LTN. No slot issues, plenty of capacity, airport management wanting (at a guess) to consolidate their growth position; great modern facilities now (new terminal extension open only last week). And Flybe are going be running that route in the summer; they operate Dash 8-300s. So how about picking up the ball out of the scrum NOW and running with it?
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I accede to Cornish Simon's more local knowledge but that's not what it said on a couple of websites I checked before posting (I had doubts myself!). Never trust the Internet!
Last edited by Downwind.Maddl-Land; 19th Feb 2014 at 17:47.
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demur
verb (used without object), de·murred, de·mur·ring.
1.
to make objection, especially on the grounds of scruples; take exception; object: They wanted to make him the treasurer, but he demurred.
2.
Law. to interpose a demurrer.
3.
Archaic. to linger; hesitate.
verb (used without object), de·murred, de·mur·ring.
1.
to make objection, especially on the grounds of scruples; take exception; object: They wanted to make him the treasurer, but he demurred.
2.
Law. to interpose a demurrer.
3.
Archaic. to linger; hesitate.
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The only possibility of seeing a regular service from Newquay to London will be when people have more wonga in their back pocket, when the economy actually goes into full swing again, at the moment it is pretty stagnant out there
I think you will find the original question was IF there was a subsidised route to Cornwall would it not be better to have it to LHR not LGW since twice as many people use that airport. In Simon's defence he WAS answering the original question and as he lives here I suggest he knows the scene and has never claimed to know the solution. We all have a view on what we would like to see but let us all agree once and for all what we could see?
But this is all academic, it ain't happening, a shame as it could be good for the likes of BE or BD regional. A NQY-LHR PSO would open the floodgates for other thin routes and get a bandwagon going: INV, DND (instead of STN), MME, IOM, BLK, JER, GCI... the list could be endless. On the other hand, politicians love bandwagon-jumping, so who knows.
There are no slots at LHR or LGW - Agreed
A LHR service is not viable on cost - Agreed
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost - Agreed
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough - Hmm - 'half a loaf is better than no bread' mean anything?
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency - Agreed; therefore Dash 8-300 would seem to fit the bill
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time -
A LHR service is not viable on cost - Agreed
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost - Agreed
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough - Hmm - 'half a loaf is better than no bread' mean anything?
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency - Agreed; therefore Dash 8-300 would seem to fit the bill
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time -
Shout! What about Southend? OK, its on the 'other side' but train links into The City are as good as (if not better than) LHR, LGW, STN and LTN. No slot issues, plenty of capacity, airport management wanting (at a guess) to consolidate their growth position; great modern facilities now (new terminal extension open only last week). And Flybe are going be running that route in the summer; they operate Dash 8-300s. So how about picking up the ball out of the scrum NOW and running with it?
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So far no solutions then apart from SEN...
As I understand it the connection to Liverpool St is an hour, so just about plausable for City traffic. To LHR or LGW it is somewhere close to twice that which isn't much use really, factor in check in times, flight time, bag collection, transfer then it is not much different to catching the train or driving but a lot more messing about.
Who will use SEN, business to London on a good day, people wanting to go to anywhere remotely close to SEN. Holidaymakers for the short season, hen and stag parties - or just parties- surfing hardly anyone, they arrive by car with a tent or sleep in the VW transporter etc.
SEN as hub? Then it must be promoted, without this thread I would never have known or thought you could fly NQY/ VCE via SEN and would have driven to LHR to do that?
Back in the late 90's Cardiff Airport published a timetable showing possible connections through other airports, they may still do it, I have never seen this from Newquay and it would be so simple and cheap to do on the website?
As I understand it the connection to Liverpool St is an hour, so just about plausable for City traffic. To LHR or LGW it is somewhere close to twice that which isn't much use really, factor in check in times, flight time, bag collection, transfer then it is not much different to catching the train or driving but a lot more messing about.
Who will use SEN, business to London on a good day, people wanting to go to anywhere remotely close to SEN. Holidaymakers for the short season, hen and stag parties - or just parties- surfing hardly anyone, they arrive by car with a tent or sleep in the VW transporter etc.
SEN as hub? Then it must be promoted, without this thread I would never have known or thought you could fly NQY/ VCE via SEN and would have driven to LHR to do that?
Back in the late 90's Cardiff Airport published a timetable showing possible connections through other airports, they may still do it, I have never seen this from Newquay and it would be so simple and cheap to do on the website?
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Surely if you rule out LHR & LGW as connecting hubs ex NQY you are left with the next logical option which would be MAN ?
That doesn't solve the London market but does offer decent worldwide connections ?
Flybe offer connections at MAN and Ek now offer NQY as a destination via several places including MAN, also BHX, LGW and EDI.
Would it be logical for BE, if previous posts are correct and the loads on the Manchester are good to go double daily and offer better connections ?
cs
That doesn't solve the London market but does offer decent worldwide connections ?
Flybe offer connections at MAN and Ek now offer NQY as a destination via several places including MAN, also BHX, LGW and EDI.
Would it be logical for BE, if previous posts are correct and the loads on the Manchester are good to go double daily and offer better connections ?
cs
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I wish I could remember where I read it, but within the last few days I read an article about a tea plantation in Cornwall (Tregowan?) which is exporting to the Far East and someone reckoned that the volumes may justify air services from NQY to the Far East.
That tea must be magic!
(I'll try to find or remember where I read that article)
That tea must be magic!
(I'll try to find or remember where I read that article)
Last edited by Capetonian; 21st Feb 2014 at 10:19.
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Tregothnan is not far from where I live and has been producing tea for some time, maybe your informant has been putting something in the tea before drinking it - whatever it was put me down for a pint!
( just re read this post there are a lot of people would be willing to put me down for a pint ....or some for nothing!)
( just re read this post there are a lot of people would be willing to put me down for a pint ....or some for nothing!)
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the new EC rules on state aid come into force next month, its gonna be interesting to see how it pans out, Certain media reckon 80 airports will close as a result.
• Operating aid to regional airports (with less than three million passengers per year) will be allowed for a transitional period of ten years under certain conditions, in order to give airports time to adjust their business model. To receive operating aid, airports need to work out a business plan paving the way towards full coverage of operating costs at the end of the transitional period.
• State aid for investment in airport infrastructure is allowed if there is a genuine transport need and the public support is necessary to ensure the accessibility of a region.
GB
• Operating aid to regional airports (with less than three million passengers per year) will be allowed for a transitional period of ten years under certain conditions, in order to give airports time to adjust their business model. To receive operating aid, airports need to work out a business plan paving the way towards full coverage of operating costs at the end of the transitional period.
• State aid for investment in airport infrastructure is allowed if there is a genuine transport need and the public support is necessary to ensure the accessibility of a region.
GB