NEWQUAY
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If there is to be a PSO on LON-NQY I would imagine:
Of course everything depends on the number of seats specified in the PSO but would there really be more than e.g. 50 people travelling by air from NQY to London on a typical morning?
This suggests to me that the most likely scenario is something like an ATR overnighting at NQY, flying up to LTN/STN/SEN in the morning, and then either doing other things out of London during the day (unless it's an old enough and cheap enough aircraft to be parked all day) and then returning to NQY in the evening. (I include SEN because Aer Arann has plenty of PSO experience and might fancy being indirectly subsidised to fly a couple of daytime routes out of SEN.)
- It will be optimised for travellers from the NQY catchment travelling to London
- It will focus on point-to-point rather than connecting traffic
- It will be agnostic or largely agnostic in terms of London airports (because the goal is to link Newquay to London, not to a specific London airport)
Of course everything depends on the number of seats specified in the PSO but would there really be more than e.g. 50 people travelling by air from NQY to London on a typical morning?
This suggests to me that the most likely scenario is something like an ATR overnighting at NQY, flying up to LTN/STN/SEN in the morning, and then either doing other things out of London during the day (unless it's an old enough and cheap enough aircraft to be parked all day) and then returning to NQY in the evening. (I include SEN because Aer Arann has plenty of PSO experience and might fancy being indirectly subsidised to fly a couple of daytime routes out of SEN.)
In answer to Phileas, who said:
No of course I don't, I was trying to respond to the point made by Skipness using an example of how poor/slow land-based public transport is in Cornwall.
In fact, the rail service in most of Devon and Cornwall (west of Exeter, anyway) is very constrained by ageing and under-invested infrastructure.
Do you believe for one minute that all the punters in/out of NQY actually live in Newquay and at the end of that very slow branch line?
In fact, the rail service in most of Devon and Cornwall (west of Exeter, anyway) is very constrained by ageing and under-invested infrastructure.
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To add more to the woes of NQY, what's the betting that skybus move all the based ac to lands end when they get there Tarmac runways, and BIH move to Exeter now there both owned by the same company?
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Only a guess as I do not have the facts, if the weather is too bad to fly at Lands End would it not also be likely it is too bad in the Isles of Scilly?
I do think Skybus could have a bigger role in a future of Newquay but as I have said before they have a lovely little niche operation with little risk and zero competition so why go into something else that would endanger that position?
Problem is of course all this is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, a handful of flights to London or not isn't going to change the airports economics dramatically or go anywhere near covering the current massive losses.
I do think Skybus could have a bigger role in a future of Newquay but as I have said before they have a lovely little niche operation with little risk and zero competition so why go into something else that would endanger that position?
Problem is of course all this is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, a handful of flights to London or not isn't going to change the airports economics dramatically or go anywhere near covering the current massive losses.
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(I include SEN because Aer Arann has plenty of PSO experience and might fancy
being indirectly subsidised to fly a couple of daytime routes out of
SEN.)
EI-BUD
Brunel to Concorde
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Flights between Newquay and Gatwick could be thrown lifeline | This is Cornwall
It seems that any PSO route between Newquay and London is not imminent. The linked newspaper report above suggests that Cornwall County Council officials have had initial talks with the DfT about making an application with the Dft saying the matter is now one for the council to decide whether it wants to pursue its application.
The newspaper article also mentions a former board member of Brymon Airways who is reportedly in talks aimed at securing a NQY-LON link which could also involve the reopening of Plymouth Airport. If this has been reported in PPRuNe before I apologise but I must have missed it.
The Wales Government finances the Cardiff-Anglesey PSO route even though there is a regular train link, some services without a change of train, between Cardiff and Holyhead that take less time and operate at greater frequency than Newquay-London trains all of which require at least one change en route. I take the point that NQY serves the wider Cornwall area where some cities/towns such as Truro and Penzance operate more frequently and without train change to the capital although journeys still take as long or longer in some cases than the Cardiff-Anglesey rail route.
It seems that any PSO route between Newquay and London is not imminent. The linked newspaper report above suggests that Cornwall County Council officials have had initial talks with the DfT about making an application with the Dft saying the matter is now one for the council to decide whether it wants to pursue its application.
The newspaper article also mentions a former board member of Brymon Airways who is reportedly in talks aimed at securing a NQY-LON link which could also involve the reopening of Plymouth Airport. If this has been reported in PPRuNe before I apologise but I must have missed it.
The Wales Government finances the Cardiff-Anglesey PSO route even though there is a regular train link, some services without a change of train, between Cardiff and Holyhead that take less time and operate at greater frequency than Newquay-London trains all of which require at least one change en route. I take the point that NQY serves the wider Cornwall area where some cities/towns such as Truro and Penzance operate more frequently and without train change to the capital although journeys still take as long or longer in some cases than the Cardiff-Anglesey rail route.
Last edited by MerchantVenturer; 21st Oct 2013 at 12:38.
Fair question, but I suspect that the "Night Riviera" sees quite a few of those types, and others who might weekly commute to the big smoke.
FGW announced recently that it is to get some investment, and additional capacity. At least you can have a drink and then lie down while it completes the 7 hour journey to and from PZ.
FGW announced recently that it is to get some investment, and additional capacity. At least you can have a drink and then lie down while it completes the 7 hour journey to and from PZ.
Last edited by Wycombe; 21st Oct 2013 at 21:26.
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Cornwall's airlink with London could get government protection.
Officials have met to discuss a subsidy for the Newquay to Gatwick route.
At the moment, it is due to come to an end in March when Flybe pulls out.
Supporters argue that it is essential for the Duchy's economy.
Cornwall Council released this statement:
Cornwall Council has held initial discussions with the Department for Transport regarding the possibility of the Government providing a subsidy on the route between Newquay and London to help secure the long term future of this vital air link.
Following the decision by Flybe on 23 May 2013 that it was to terminate its service between Newquay and Gatwick at the end of March 2014, the Council has been involved in a number of commercially negotiations with other airlines to secure the future of this route. Although these discussions remain on-going with other operators, the Council is also exploring other options to ensure the service is maintained, including a Public Service Obligation (PSO).
Imposing a PSO on the route between Newquay and London would mean the Government providing a subsidy to an operator to deliver the connection for a four year period. This would provide a much more secure future for the route than the current situation which relies on the commercial decisions of an operator.
"While there is no guarantee that the Government will support this application, all initial pointers from the Department for Transport have been positive and we believe we meet the necessary criteria”" said Adam Paynter, the Council's Cabinet Member for Partnerships.
The formal process, which is governed by EU regulations, requires the Council to seek competitive bids from airlines and present the case to the Government to provide financial support for one of these.
"Although our aim is to tender for a new service to begin on 1 April 2014, the length of the formal process means that it is possible that it would not be in place until later in the summer. This would result in a short break in service" said Adam Paynter. "While we recognise that this would create short term difficulties for regular travellers, starting the application process earlier would not have been practical as an essential requirement for a PSO is the exhaustion of all commercial alternative options. However, if successful, this will help us secure the long term future of this vital route.
"The Department of Transport is very aware of the issues which we are facing and the need for a decision to be made as quickly as possible."
The Council is continuing to work closely with the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership on this issue. The Chairman of the Partnership Chris Pomfret said: "The provision of a regular year-round service from Newquay to a London hub airport with a schedule that works for business is vital to the economy of Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly. The LEP fully supports this move to try and secure a PSO on the route and we will shortly issue a call for evidence to local businesses to help argue the case for air links to a London hub airport."
Officials have met to discuss a subsidy for the Newquay to Gatwick route.
At the moment, it is due to come to an end in March when Flybe pulls out.
Supporters argue that it is essential for the Duchy's economy.
Cornwall Council released this statement:
Cornwall Council has held initial discussions with the Department for Transport regarding the possibility of the Government providing a subsidy on the route between Newquay and London to help secure the long term future of this vital air link.
Following the decision by Flybe on 23 May 2013 that it was to terminate its service between Newquay and Gatwick at the end of March 2014, the Council has been involved in a number of commercially negotiations with other airlines to secure the future of this route. Although these discussions remain on-going with other operators, the Council is also exploring other options to ensure the service is maintained, including a Public Service Obligation (PSO).
Imposing a PSO on the route between Newquay and London would mean the Government providing a subsidy to an operator to deliver the connection for a four year period. This would provide a much more secure future for the route than the current situation which relies on the commercial decisions of an operator.
"While there is no guarantee that the Government will support this application, all initial pointers from the Department for Transport have been positive and we believe we meet the necessary criteria”" said Adam Paynter, the Council's Cabinet Member for Partnerships.
The formal process, which is governed by EU regulations, requires the Council to seek competitive bids from airlines and present the case to the Government to provide financial support for one of these.
"Although our aim is to tender for a new service to begin on 1 April 2014, the length of the formal process means that it is possible that it would not be in place until later in the summer. This would result in a short break in service" said Adam Paynter. "While we recognise that this would create short term difficulties for regular travellers, starting the application process earlier would not have been practical as an essential requirement for a PSO is the exhaustion of all commercial alternative options. However, if successful, this will help us secure the long term future of this vital route.
"The Department of Transport is very aware of the issues which we are facing and the need for a decision to be made as quickly as possible."
The Council is continuing to work closely with the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership on this issue. The Chairman of the Partnership Chris Pomfret said: "The provision of a regular year-round service from Newquay to a London hub airport with a schedule that works for business is vital to the economy of Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly. The LEP fully supports this move to try and secure a PSO on the route and we will shortly issue a call for evidence to local businesses to help argue the case for air links to a London hub airport."
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I suppose they could ask our future King to cough up a few bob to subsidise the route but I doubt you would get much respose. Ooops there goes my fat chance of getting a gong for even suggesting such a thing. I hear he is down to his last few million!
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How can Nqy now apply for a PSO, as one of the criteria is that you have exhausted all other options and no operators will take it on, so how can the council put out in their statement that they are still in discussions with other operators to take over the route without a PSO, have they not shot themselves in the foot and that the dft will now know this!!
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Positive things being said today in interview on local radio with MP for NQY and st Austell Stephen Gilbert.
Claims to have an agreement in principle with the government to find the PSO operation.
He also claims its likely to go from BE to whoever as a seamless transition without any time without a NQY-LON service.
We will see.
Any ideas who could step in on a PSO operation that quickly with aircraft and infrastructure in place/available ?
cs
Claims to have an agreement in principle with the government to find the PSO operation.
He also claims its likely to go from BE to whoever as a seamless transition without any time without a NQY-LON service.
We will see.
Any ideas who could step in on a PSO operation that quickly with aircraft and infrastructure in place/available ?
cs
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How can Nqy now apply for a PSO, as one of the criteria is that you have exhausted all other options and no operators will take it on, so how can the council put out in their statement that they are still in discussions with other operators to take over the route without a PSO, have they not shot themselves in the foot and that the dft will now know this!!
Of course the council don't want that to happen and, so to speak, "It ain't over until the fat lady sings" so they're putting out statement(s) to the effect "Bear with us, we're working on it" and the NQY faithful should be waiting for more news.
On the other hand, of course, it could be that prospective operator(s) are making demand(s) for some form of financial incentive to operate the route thus perhaps why the PSO application!
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Who could step in? Could be anything with a 50 seater or less, doubt it would be anything bigger, and not necessarily anyone currently operating from the UK
So, obvious options would be:
BMI Regional (to STN?)
Eastern (to STN?)
Aer Arann/EIR (probably to SEN)
Loganair (LTN/STN)
Blue Islands (LTN/STN)
Cityjet to LCY, if they have a spare F50. They might fancy the guaranteed income and think they've done PSO in Ireland
Otherwise, anything anyone can think of with that size aircraft
Minoan/Denim/Darwin etc
So, obvious options would be:
BMI Regional (to STN?)
Eastern (to STN?)
Aer Arann/EIR (probably to SEN)
Loganair (LTN/STN)
Blue Islands (LTN/STN)
Cityjet to LCY, if they have a spare F50. They might fancy the guaranteed income and think they've done PSO in Ireland
Otherwise, anything anyone can think of with that size aircraft
Minoan/Denim/Darwin etc
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Realistically, airports like Newquay are at risk as a result of the disappearance of 1970s/1980s-style regional aviation. Here in Germany, regional airports suchs as Kiel (KEL), Hof (HOQ), Mönchengladbach (MGL) or Augsburg (AGB) that used to have to links to hub airports such as FRA, DUS, BER or MUC (some to three of them) with 50-70 seater turboprops are nowadays general aviation airfields. And even the next bigger category of airports (places like FMO, SCN) is now struggling unless they are willing to bed Ryanair.
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Apart from his time pulling people out of the Thames ( he was involved in rescuing a drowning woman) Mr Gilbert must have been very busy because I sent him an e mail with some ideas and an offer to assist and didn't even get the courtesy of a reply.
For no logical reason and despite all the reasons it shouldn't be possible, I still have a feeling there will be a new operator on a London route but it may not be Gatwick.
No idea whether there is a chance a PSO will help or not, wasn't it muted that was the way to save the Penzance helicopter link though?
For no logical reason and despite all the reasons it shouldn't be possible, I still have a feeling there will be a new operator on a London route but it may not be Gatwick.
No idea whether there is a chance a PSO will help or not, wasn't it muted that was the way to save the Penzance helicopter link though?