BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[CaptJ]

It is just embarrassing

Finally arrived back after a night in Heathrow.
Boy was it an embarrasing arrival.
Seems little or no attempt had been made to properly clear the apron, and we couldn't get off the plane.
While we waited patiently we could see fuel truck and baggage carts slipping and sliding all over the place. Of course a little snow brush machine sitting unused.
On the flight was a group of American gospel singers from a northern state that has real winters.

And no, actually in response to the poster above. You don't just let the snow build up. You keep it clear as that is quicker and more effective. Once snow builds up it is heavy and hard to shift, it also doesn't allow the ground to absorb heat from the sun, which then melts the remaining thin layer.

But ultimately I think the City's problem is just not enough staff to do this work.

[BHD2BFS]

i may be wrong, but is cleaning a path for pax from an arriving flight not down to the ground handler rather than the airport as they have the deicing equipment? and if it is you can only blame the airlines as they only pay for so many handler per flight

[panpanpanpan]

I was chatting to my source at city earlier, I am told the airport firemen alongside their ops dept look after snow clearing on the runway and apron areas.

CaptJ, I will bow to your obviously superior knowledge of snow clearing - I am sure you will be letting city management know where their areas of concern are? Didnt realise Flight Sim did winter ops as well!

[tigger2k8]

Same for both airports..

Runway's, taxiways and the apron (including PAX paths) = Airport Ops / Fire
Ground equipment + aircraft de-icing = Handling Agent.. insurance reasons stop the handling agent from clearing paths in most airports.. as they can be liable if someone gets hurt..

[SecondDog]

And no, actually in response to the poster above. You don't just let the snow build up. You keep it clear as that is quicker and more effective. Once snow builds up it is heavy and hard to shift, it also doesn't allow the ground to absorb heat from the sun, which then melts the remaining thin layer.

But ultimately I think the City's problem is just not enough staff to do this work.

I am well aware of how to clear snow. If you read my post again you will see that nowhere in there do I suggest letting it build up. My point is merely that IF it snows hard enough for long periods of time (specially in the kind of winds we have been having) there is very little that can be done about it closing a runway. Specially at the city where they only have a couple of decent runway sweepers. It just isn't a common enough occurrence to justify spending on vast ammounts of winter ops equipment. BFS are actually surprisingly well equipped for snow given the usually mild winters we have in Northern Ireland.

From my understanding, staff is not the issue at City, they have a well stocked Airside Standards dept who look after the apron. I think the fire service there is responsible for the runways and taxiways and in the winter they have an off duty fire crew on standby for winter ops (although my info is probably out of date by a couple of years)

[mart901]

Whilst looking online for some info/press releases about the new euro routes from BHD came across this not terribly new but interesting article;

Flight and the City - Ulster Business

[GAZMO]

Interesting what is said about LHR. Looking at the four month published caa stats, LHR overall has declined, except December when 2.5 K pax increase. Other months between 5 and 5.5 decrease in pax. So if EI are happy is BA disappointed ?

Think there may be a few porkies being told

[EI-A330-300]

April 2012 and April 2013 stats will tell a correct story about LHR. A319 since April 2012 and A320 this time last year. Yes EI will be much happier with BA on BHD-LHR and DUB-LHR in fact.

[EI-BUD]

Yes EI will be much happier with BA on BHD-LHR and DUB-LHR in fact.

EI-A330-300; not quite sure what you mean by this statement??


From my perspective who likes to fly EI, often using it on BHD- LHR and LGW, and of the mind that if EI is serious about a base outside of ROI that can be sustained, it needs to ride the storm out and keep its focus on the LGW route.

LGW is not on sale yet for Winter 2012/3, I have a real concern about this.
If LGW doesnt work, and if not returned for winter the question is would EI continue through the Winter with a single aircraft base? If the LGW route cannot be made to work for EI, they are are the start of the end serving the Belfast market. This would be my view.

Going a step further if EI do ditch the base, it leaves BHD with no European routes again, where will it leave BA, there would be no credible alternative to them on LHR, so hence wide open for BA to look at BFS , thus allowing lower frequency with larger aircraft, hence slot release.

Be nice to hear from some EI insider who can confirm that LGW will be loaded for winter, as at this stage the other LGW routes are in the system but not BHD.....??

Regarding the link to the magazine article, it is very out of date at this stage, read this when it came out first, it is all positive PR spin, as you would expect from any airline from the outset.

LGW is a struggle for both EI and BE. EI staff saying loads very weak on the route, BE are not much better, CAA Stats bear out the slack loads overall. EI fares are quite low so one could infer that the yield is some way off the mark. BE will not blink as it would be a clear invite to EI onto other domestic routes ex BHD.

We must wait and see...

[EI-A330-300]

EI-A330-300; not quite sure what you mean by this statement??

I meant to type EI will be much happier than BA with their LHR performance.

[GAZMO]

EI bUD, I have to agree with your comments/views. I was wondering if EI regret moving to BHD? EI have been undertaking heavy promotion of the London routes. Yes from time to time airlines will promote new routes but it seems EI have been promoting the London market continuously for last 6 or 7 months, TV, radio, newspapers , billboards and even on this website!!

I think they may delay LGW for some time.

Would be great if anybody had the actual monthly LF for LGW for EI and BE

[EI-BUD]

I meant to type EI will be much happier than BA with their LHR
performance.

Thanks EI- A330,

This is good to know. Though given BA are set on the 7 daily rotations, and determined to challenge EI all the way, despite directing some passengers via BA.com to use EI on BHD LHR enroute to onward destinations, it seems odd to me that BA continue to use such an amount of slots on this route, that seems to be underperforming other LHR routes. May in part be driven by EI's working with VS on domestic routes....

EI-BUD

[irishlad06]

Don't know where you get your facts from but BA at BHD is far from underperforming.

[CaptainDoony]

The bargain basement fares BA charge right now on the route can't be much of a money maker for them. Depends how high yielding the connecting pax are I guess though as well

[GAZMO]

Although it might be unfair to use my last flight with BA to LHR as it was the first flight on a Sunday morning, but only 35/40 pax.
Also all crew were LHR based and naturally were put up in Belfast hotel overnight....costly. Are there no BA pilots and cabin crew from NI?

[SecondDog]

Also all crew were LHR based and naturally were put up in Belfast hotel overnight....costly. Are there no BA pilots and cabin crew from NI?

Would BHD not pay for the hotel as another attractant for BA to stay?

[GAZMO]

With two early flights from BHD and six crew per flight that's twelve rooms X 364 days per year!!!!
As previously suggested move up to BFS and use larger aircraft and reduce frequency slightly

[BFS BHD]

Fees would be a bit high for BA at BFS i would say! But you never know whats going on in aviation!!

[GAZMO]

If BFS management had any sense they would make a good offer. Who else can offer them LHR?

[BFS BHD]

Virgin (Little Red) if they expand and order some more aircraft and gets more slots at LHR Or is that a never