BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Straightahead
I see alot of the blame for RYR pulling out of BHD was the delay in the runway extension.Lets be honest RYR 3 year deal was over so MOL was going to have to pay,so away he goes somewhere else for free.So now a window of opportunity, another free 3 year deal.
Maybe, just maybe Ryanair wasn't happy with having to depart out of BHD with empty seats? And why stay in BHD when it could redeploy its aircraft to another airport in Europe where it can fly its aircraft full and make more money?
Originally Posted by stab3.5up
Can i just throw in bacf as possible replacement fo ww??
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere
Age: 41
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would appear that BHD and BE have had a fairly long and generally stable relationship. Would management risk this (again) by luring back FR et al with substantial incentives??
On the subject of de-rates. The de-rate of the engine is selected on the FMC by the pilots from a choice of 22,24 or 26k lbs of thrust for each departure depending on runway & weather etc.
26k is the maximum on the 737-800 although most departures are made using 22k thrust and an "assumed temperature" correction is often added to bring the thrust down even further. All very common practice in the industry.
However even with full 26k thrust BHD's runway is still very limiting on payload for longer routes.
26k is the maximum on the 737-800 although most departures are made using 22k thrust and an "assumed temperature" correction is often added to bring the thrust down even further. All very common practice in the industry.
However even with full 26k thrust BHD's runway is still very limiting on payload for longer routes.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easyjet - not really sure why they came down to City in the first place other
than to prove a point to Abertis when they were having a spat
All this resting on Aer Lingus getting near enough those slots at London
Heathrow which would be difficult to say the least
I have a strong view of how the whole Heathrow equation will pan out and is much more wide ranging than just related to Belfast;
- BA will leave Belfast Heathrow to AerLingus. Why? Because BA have no interest in point to point domestics. Aer Lingus can provide the feed with a lower cost base and with their own slots. (Despite what WW says about Belfast route being safe, he has to be seen to reassure the UK regions about connectivity with LHR, a very emotive issue). EI will pull the slots out of a hat, they have some leased out etc.
- Aer Lingus will get ABZ and EDI LHR routes. BA will happily codeshare as they have to interline with the said carrier. BA will be happy to keep VS out, at any cost. BA will have a long term view of VS just as they had with Bmi.
- BA will step back from Belfast and Dublin Heathrow routes too.
- Why has EI not completed the Winter timetable ex BFS? LHR is the issue.
- EI will have great bargaining power between airports and I wouldnt be surprised if EI have a 319 based in LHR to run BHD x 4 daily starting with 0645 LHR departure. A 320 based at BFS for an x3 daily route with an earlier departure than currently exists.
- May 11th I think BA give an update on the bmi integration, I think that date will be significant in terms of detail.
I said from the word go BHD absolutely backed the wrong horse attracting WW to the city airport. They never were fit to compete, not just in terms of financial ability, but the challenge of attracting the customer to know BHD has a serious route offering to Europe. The market is well served and the airport needs an airline of scale and security to take the long view and slowly develop the market. Baby could fulfil neither of this criteria.
Despite my comments I wish best wishes to all bmibaby and bmi staff for their future careers. This is difficult news to take.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunny spain
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
completely agree with ei-bud but i think EI will just keep all LHR at BFS and up it to 7-8 flights per day. the only thing that the intl airport has to do is build a air bridge for them. (i think there will be one going second hand at a certain airport down the road soon)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks eastern wiseguy. I also meant to add that I dont feel FR made any return on their operations here. They didnt make a significant dent on the competition, interesting to note for e.g. that Flybe continued month on month to grow LGW BHD numbers... GLA wasnt at all affected by PIK (which was a total flop btw). So in total agreement with a previous poster who said when the 3 year deal ran out Ryanair left town. They blamed the runway rather than BHD management, keeping the door opened for future potential routes to Europe. There was no reason why if the base was making a return they would pull it coming into winter (as domestics fairly consistent over the winter) when they have oodles of 738s parked around the place!
We can all talk about 'good numbers' but when a fare is paid on say a flight to say Malaga of say £60, sweet little is left for the airline when the taxes are taken out. Consider fuel etc and it starts to give a sense as to why the sheer scale of the losses at baby were such. It was a no brainer for BA to pull baby out of BHD as quickly as possible as it was an enormous drain on resources. Despite the reasons for closing MAN and CWL bases, there was no reason why WW could not have kept MAN BHD going, using BHD based aircraft, the reason they did was because it was a dead loss.
What will happen to the package holidays that used Baby ex BHD? Not sure which company but I understand some travel company were block booking seats, Thomas Cook? Easyjet cut back frequency on ALC and AGP slightly this year ex BFS clearly due to the arrival of WW and increased frequency on AGP of LS. The 320 will certainly be warranted this summer ex BFS....
EI-BUD
We can all talk about 'good numbers' but when a fare is paid on say a flight to say Malaga of say £60, sweet little is left for the airline when the taxes are taken out. Consider fuel etc and it starts to give a sense as to why the sheer scale of the losses at baby were such. It was a no brainer for BA to pull baby out of BHD as quickly as possible as it was an enormous drain on resources. Despite the reasons for closing MAN and CWL bases, there was no reason why WW could not have kept MAN BHD going, using BHD based aircraft, the reason they did was because it was a dead loss.
What will happen to the package holidays that used Baby ex BHD? Not sure which company but I understand some travel company were block booking seats, Thomas Cook? Easyjet cut back frequency on ALC and AGP slightly this year ex BFS clearly due to the arrival of WW and increased frequency on AGP of LS. The 320 will certainly be warranted this summer ex BFS....
EI-BUD
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest that rules out the majority as I couldn`t see senior
management spouting off on an anonymous forum such as this.
However, while they wont be showing their cards on here they certainly can get to see a range of views on various topics, suggestions that sometimes are worthwhile.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belfast
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BHD European Rotues
Honestly don't know if BHD will get any other airlines to do 'holiday routes'. The only airline i can see doing this is TCX after their little go at Reus (but that was through another travel company if im correct?). But since TCX are at BFS can't see it. Surely someone will see the potential of these routes after WW's success with them. Where most of them not sold out quickly with nearly full PAX? Maybe someone like City Jet might have a go??? what do you guys think about this situation?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Derry~Londonderry
Age: 34
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's clear that if FR do come back they are back to do domestic only. Which doesn't seem viable with BE already increasing BHX & EMA. When FR done PIK, what are we calling a flop, were loads that bad?
Could Vueling give the European routes a go? Again could the A320 use BHD's runway for such routes?
Could Vueling give the European routes a go? Again could the A320 use BHD's runway for such routes?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Belfast, UK
Age: 43
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the grand scheme of things, while we all might get a little hot under the collar about BFS v BHD, the travel time between then is about 25 minutes. Not a huge inconvenience when travelling to a European destination.
This is why I feel that each airport should play to its strengths, and I guess their stereotypical demographic. BHD catering to the regional domestics, more business orientated flights and hopefully European cities (Germanwings, KLM, etc); and BFS operating the charters, long haul and bucket and spade loco's.
Each are a business and are out to get a good return to their shareholders, yes, but traditionally BHD was seen as the regional / business airport, and my own personal view would be a return to this would be ideal.
In regard to BA's return, WW stated his intention to get BA flying back into Belfast, long before the bmi takeover. Also when we discuss slot availability at LHR, and potential BA long hauls; NCL has I think 7 flights a day into LHR. If BA feel they get a good return on these flights, why not the same for Belfast?? If anything I'd guess the NI to LHR market would be stronger than from NCL. If demand currently warrants 3 EI and 6 BD flights a day from Belfast, maybe a small reduction could be facilitated, however I cannot see this being reduced to say only 5 or 6 EI flights from BFS. I believe that the BD BHD route was one of the most successful and a bit of a cash cow for them. Would BA walk away from that?? I'd say that BA will operate from BHD, and hopefully forge a stable relationship for the future.
This is why I feel that each airport should play to its strengths, and I guess their stereotypical demographic. BHD catering to the regional domestics, more business orientated flights and hopefully European cities (Germanwings, KLM, etc); and BFS operating the charters, long haul and bucket and spade loco's.
Each are a business and are out to get a good return to their shareholders, yes, but traditionally BHD was seen as the regional / business airport, and my own personal view would be a return to this would be ideal.
In regard to BA's return, WW stated his intention to get BA flying back into Belfast, long before the bmi takeover. Also when we discuss slot availability at LHR, and potential BA long hauls; NCL has I think 7 flights a day into LHR. If BA feel they get a good return on these flights, why not the same for Belfast?? If anything I'd guess the NI to LHR market would be stronger than from NCL. If demand currently warrants 3 EI and 6 BD flights a day from Belfast, maybe a small reduction could be facilitated, however I cannot see this being reduced to say only 5 or 6 EI flights from BFS. I believe that the BD BHD route was one of the most successful and a bit of a cash cow for them. Would BA walk away from that?? I'd say that BA will operate from BHD, and hopefully forge a stable relationship for the future.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: dodging CB clouds
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
panpanpanpan, redED and BFS101 - spot on with your responses.
EGAC ramper - I guess we'll have to wait and see. I believe WW was quoted in saying he was looking forward to BA returning to NI/Belfast, which wouldnt match the plan for Aer Lingus to operate exclusively. I dont know if Aer Lingus have any spare aircraft floating around to operate all the services, but unless some deal was done with slots and 1 or 2 extra airframes turned up then they could lose some of the market they, and BMI currently handle. Its also worth noting that BA are already selling seats for the winter schedule to Belfast City.
Ultimately we'll just wait and see. I would have thought that with slot usage being a big factor the obvious answer would be to let Aer Lingus work away as normal, and BA could reduce the number of daily services inherited from BMI, utilising the A320/321 more often to keep the figures up..but just my thought.
EI-BUD - i see a lot of sense in what you're saying. I'm just not sold on it, as the snippets im getting from crew in Heathrow seems to contradict what Aldergrove are saying..
Its all very strange, various meetings that have been taking place, and also Aer Lingus still working on their winter schedules.
I'll finish that i agree with what BFS101 said, both airports should play on their strengths. The City airport wasnt really designed to deal with the low-cost and charter airlines market for many reasons. It should focus on attracting new regional airlines for the UK and nearby European cities, like KLM to Amsterdam. It would benefit from the connectivity as well as having another airline alliance in Belfast. I also think that if BA and Aer Lingus consolidated their services and moved all flights to Aldergrove, the City would benefit from the likes of a BA CityFlyer service. Smaller airlines like Flybe and Manx2 will always be able to offer flights and connecting flights to regional places that the likes of Easyjet and others cant, the city airport should be content with that.
EGAC ramper - I guess we'll have to wait and see. I believe WW was quoted in saying he was looking forward to BA returning to NI/Belfast, which wouldnt match the plan for Aer Lingus to operate exclusively. I dont know if Aer Lingus have any spare aircraft floating around to operate all the services, but unless some deal was done with slots and 1 or 2 extra airframes turned up then they could lose some of the market they, and BMI currently handle. Its also worth noting that BA are already selling seats for the winter schedule to Belfast City.
Ultimately we'll just wait and see. I would have thought that with slot usage being a big factor the obvious answer would be to let Aer Lingus work away as normal, and BA could reduce the number of daily services inherited from BMI, utilising the A320/321 more often to keep the figures up..but just my thought.
EI-BUD - i see a lot of sense in what you're saying. I'm just not sold on it, as the snippets im getting from crew in Heathrow seems to contradict what Aldergrove are saying..
Its all very strange, various meetings that have been taking place, and also Aer Lingus still working on their winter schedules.
I'll finish that i agree with what BFS101 said, both airports should play on their strengths. The City airport wasnt really designed to deal with the low-cost and charter airlines market for many reasons. It should focus on attracting new regional airlines for the UK and nearby European cities, like KLM to Amsterdam. It would benefit from the connectivity as well as having another airline alliance in Belfast. I also think that if BA and Aer Lingus consolidated their services and moved all flights to Aldergrove, the City would benefit from the likes of a BA CityFlyer service. Smaller airlines like Flybe and Manx2 will always be able to offer flights and connecting flights to regional places that the likes of Easyjet and others cant, the city airport should be content with that.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Work associated address
Age: 41
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the main reasons for BHD to go first was the costs of over nighting crew and the fact many pilots/cabin crew will be off to newer pastures. So having the crew to actually fly the full schedule would become unfeasible.
Regards
Regards
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunny spain
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think it really is a possibility, there is an airbridge available for them, a business lounge, close to city centre and no doubt a good deal on fees. however there is no room for lingus regional at the moment at the airport if it did ever come. plus the fact that they have dropped rome and only have 7 european routes means they can have a schedule to fit the airport opening times