New Thames Airport for London
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Avast ye, sky-lubbers, Silver be working for a living, Jim lad.
Let me get to somewhere with a decent internet, where I can read what Boris Boy has been saying....
;-)
Update:
I like this article. The main opposition to this proposal is from the unions. Not content with destroying all our industry in the '80s (and all their members jobs), they want to destroy the regeneration of Britain too:
'Boris Island' Thames Estuary airport plan to be included in official Government consultation | Mail Online
This is perhaps why the Labour Party did nothing - not one single major infrastructure progect - in their 12 years in power. Like the Communists of Russia, they thought we could live of the hard industry of the Victorians (Tsars) for the next 200 years.
Ain't going to happen chaps. We either invest, or die - like The USSR did in the early '90s (a supposed world power without a motorway or a train that could do more than 60mph).
Learn from history, folks. We either invest, or die.
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Avast ye, sky-lubbers, Silver be working for a living, Jim lad.
Let me get to somewhere with a decent internet, where I can read what Boris Boy has been saying....
;-)
Update:
I like this article. The main opposition to this proposal is from the unions. Not content with destroying all our industry in the '80s (and all their members jobs), they want to destroy the regeneration of Britain too:
'Boris Island' Thames Estuary airport plan to be included in official Government consultation | Mail Online
This is perhaps why the Labour Party did nothing - not one single major infrastructure progect - in their 12 years in power. Like the Communists of Russia, they thought we could live of the hard industry of the Victorians (Tsars) for the next 200 years.
Ain't going to happen chaps. We either invest, or die - like The USSR did in the early '90s (a supposed world power without a motorway or a train that could do more than 60mph).
Learn from history, folks. We either invest, or die.
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Last edited by silverstrata; 19th Jan 2012 at 03:30.
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Andy:
Now, I am not any sort of Airport or transport planning professional but from this amateur viewpoint I'd have thought that a better strategic location for the UK would be to have had THE major international airport in the South Midlands area somewhere BETWEEN London & the Midlands.
Now, I am not any sort of Airport or transport planning professional but from this amateur viewpoint I'd have thought that a better strategic location for the UK would be to have had THE major international airport in the South Midlands area somewhere BETWEEN London & the Midlands.
This is an international hub where people from all over the world will interline into Europe and beyond. Yes, we need more regional activity at this airport (which Heathrow cannot provide at present, due to slots), but the main international traffic is into London and the other major capitals of Europe.
In short this airport has to be a replacement for Heathrow and in the southeast, near London. Now because Labour have crammed this small island to the brim with ethnic ghettos left right and center, there is no room left, which is why a Thames Estuary site is the only realistic option.
Please read thebother 12 pages for greater info....
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Last edited by silverstrata; 19th Jan 2012 at 03:28.
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Skipness:
One thing London doesn't lack is capacity, Luton and Stansted all have plenty of room and Southend is coming on stream. Runway three at Heathrow would have been financed by the private sector as well.
One thing London doesn't lack is capacity, Luton and Stansted all have plenty of room and Southend is coming on stream. Runway three at Heathrow would have been financed by the private sector as well.
How many Regional turboprops opperate out of Heathrow?? Name them !!
This is the whole problem with London's airports. There is absolutely no point in flying international into Heathrow, if your regioal connection is from Luton or Gatwick !! You may as well fly into CDG or AMS and get an easier connection.
Thus Heathrow has slipped from being an international hub, to merely being a national hub, and is losing out on at least another 50% of traffic (and UK revenue). Even this month, I hubbed through AMS, because there were no easy connections from LHR.
LHR - crappy airport, crappy country - the two go hand in hand. If we want to be a World Class nation, we need a World Class aviation hub.
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Last edited by silverstrata; 19th Jan 2012 at 03:26.
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Fairdeal:
As Skipness says, Boris is up for re-election and it's likely to be close, so, naturally, cost won't be "an issue". He may think (or be advised) that this idea will shore up the West Middlesex/North Surrey vote, but for every one who supports the idea, there will be those who have concerns about job losses.
As Skipness says, Boris is up for re-election and it's likely to be close, so, naturally, cost won't be "an issue". He may think (or be advised) that this idea will shore up the West Middlesex/North Surrey vote, but for every one who supports the idea, there will be those who have concerns about job losses.
I think you have Boris all wrong there.
Whether you like him or not, I think he is one of the few politicians who believes in the future of this nation, and cares more about its future than his career.
This is not about winning votes, because in many respects this issue is not a vote winner - it will certainly cause political and also some social divisions (see these blog pages). This is a proposal that a politician will have to force through in the face of plenty of nay-sayers, criticism and divisions.
So yes, I think Boris believes that Silver-Boris Island will be good, in the long term, for the UK.
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Oh, if you are listening, Mr glass-fronted Foster .........
THIS SILVER-BORIS AIRPORT ON THE ISLE OF GRAIN HAS TO BE ORIENTATED SOUTH WEST, AND NOT DUE WEST AS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY DEPICTED.
Did I make that clear enough? The westerly proposal is a nonsense, and will give as much noise, polution, safety and security issues to central London as Heathrow does at present. See the previous maps on this thread delineating the tracks to and from the southwesterly runways from the Silver-Boris airport on the Isle of Grain site.
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Oh, if you are listening, Mr glass-fronted Foster .........
THIS SILVER-BORIS AIRPORT ON THE ISLE OF GRAIN HAS TO BE ORIENTATED SOUTH WEST, AND NOT DUE WEST AS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY DEPICTED.
Did I make that clear enough? The westerly proposal is a nonsense, and will give as much noise, polution, safety and security issues to central London as Heathrow does at present. See the previous maps on this thread delineating the tracks to and from the southwesterly runways from the Silver-Boris airport on the Isle of Grain site.
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Thus Heathrow has slipped from being an international hub, to merely being a national hub, and is losing out on at least another 50% of traffic (and UK revenue). Even this month, I hubbed through AMS, because there were no easy connections from LHR.
Hence it is easier to connect Europe-LHR-intercontinental than it is from Inverness, which makes it an international hub at the expense of domestic connectivity, where the best bet is often AMS with KLM.
You have concatenated London's airport capacity with hub connectivity, they are not the same thing and you ought to know that given your many thousands of words on this matter.
. Now because Labour have crammed this small island to the brim with ethnic ghettos left right and center, there is no room left, which is why a Thames Estuary site is the only realistic option.
ethnic
LHR - crappy airport, crappy country - the two go hand in hand.
Be under no doubt that the many and varied problems facing this country are caused in the main by well educated white people (like me !) who had all the opportunities and made some very poor strategic decisions. To blame the unlike, the foreign, to look down upon those who are different is abhorrent and the most un-British behaviour if I may say.
Lastly, here's what someone who has a direct commercial stake in matters thinks :
BA's Willie Walsh says he will not be checking in at 'Boris Island' - Telegraph
Mr Walsh was asked :
So he'd be pretty reluctant to leave Heathrow?
His reply is devastatingly simple.
"Not pretty reluctant. We wouldn't leave. If others left we'd have Heathrow to ourselves. That would be fantastic. BA won't leave, so other airlines won't leave either."
Some Tories come to their senses today.
BBC News - Conservative MPs urge rethink on Heathrow third runway
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 19th Jan 2012 at 13:30.
Silver, I'm aware that we are talking about a WORLD airport & I have read the previous 12 pages. My point is that an airport located in, say, the Huntingdon area can serve London better than Heathrow due to far better & quicker links into central London & The City (just 40 mins by train into Kings-Cross at the moment, & that could be upgraded). Such a location will also be able to serve the industries & business of the Midlands AS WELL.
Keep Heathrow as a large international/ regional airport (like Gatwick) but invest in new strategic infrastructure where it can best serve London AND the rest of the UK. Build a new INTERNATIONAL STRATEGIC Airport Hub, but put it in a better location for all. My opinion is that that location is best in the South Midlands rather than in the Thames estuary (probably far cheaper as well) & we are all entitled to our opinions.
Keep Heathrow as a large international/ regional airport (like Gatwick) but invest in new strategic infrastructure where it can best serve London AND the rest of the UK. Build a new INTERNATIONAL STRATEGIC Airport Hub, but put it in a better location for all. My opinion is that that location is best in the South Midlands rather than in the Thames estuary (probably far cheaper as well) & we are all entitled to our opinions.
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Well said Skipness. I don't think I've ever read anything quite so offensive and inaccurate on the site as the previous replies.
The most vocal opponents of airport expansion and major infrastructure development are white middle class Britons, particularly those living in West London under the Heathrow flight path and in Justine Greening's constituency. All of whom are vital for Boris's hopes for re-election.
Boris has no interest in anything other than his own venality. He's given London nothing except a load of annoying bikes (admittedly quite nice for tourists but useless for most commuting Londoners), a new, expensive and pointless and, as yet, untested Routemaster and a cable car. All flashy and eye-catching, especially with his name attached (as in Boris Island). All at the cost of the poorest commuters in London whose fares have risen out of all proportion and at a time of recession. Meanwhile Boris says it's time to stop banker bashing. By contrast, all the major transport infrastructure projects (Overground renewal expansion, bus route expansion and Crossrail) were initiated by his predecessor.
The only future Boris believes in is his own, at the expense of anyone else.
The most vocal opponents of airport expansion and major infrastructure development are white middle class Britons, particularly those living in West London under the Heathrow flight path and in Justine Greening's constituency. All of whom are vital for Boris's hopes for re-election.
Boris has no interest in anything other than his own venality. He's given London nothing except a load of annoying bikes (admittedly quite nice for tourists but useless for most commuting Londoners), a new, expensive and pointless and, as yet, untested Routemaster and a cable car. All flashy and eye-catching, especially with his name attached (as in Boris Island). All at the cost of the poorest commuters in London whose fares have risen out of all proportion and at a time of recession. Meanwhile Boris says it's time to stop banker bashing. By contrast, all the major transport infrastructure projects (Overground renewal expansion, bus route expansion and Crossrail) were initiated by his predecessor.
The only future Boris believes in is his own, at the expense of anyone else.
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If Boris Island goes ahead, then vast amounts of material will be needed to raise the runways and other structures above sea level. Some could probably be found by dredging, but probably not enough, and more likely, insufficient with the right mechanical properties. For Chep Lap Kok they found enough hard rock fill by taking the top off a (small) mountain, but there are no comparable mountains in Kent or Essex that could be beheaded.
Coincidently, there is currently a search going on for a place to excavate a long-term store for long-life radioactive waste. The favourite at present seems to be the coastal fringes of the Lake District. However, if the dump were to be moved to the south-east, the problems of where to dump spoil from the excavation and where to acquire fill for the airport island would solve each other. After all, south-east England has everything else, so why not let it have the radioactive dump as well.
On a slightly different theme, business and high-tech industry tend to locate where there are good air services, and additional air services are devloped where business and high-tech industry provide a demand. Despite short-term tweaks, the limits on capacity at Heathrow are tending to break this positive feedback loop. Either a solution will be found in less time than it would take to open Boris Island or build a third runway, or things will go elsewhere. If that elsewhere is not to be outside the UK, then there must be investment in at least one other UK hub outside the London area.
Both the midlands and north-west england, or even central Scotland, could already provide the traveller seed to support a hub. What is needed is provision and promotion of regional and long-haul services from one of those potential hubs.
Manchester is already attracting long-haul operations by non-uk airlines, so perhaps with a relatively small investment the two runways at Manchester could provide the UK with the capacity and flexibility the third LHR runway would have produced without the expense and disturbance of building Boris Island.
Coincidently, there is currently a search going on for a place to excavate a long-term store for long-life radioactive waste. The favourite at present seems to be the coastal fringes of the Lake District. However, if the dump were to be moved to the south-east, the problems of where to dump spoil from the excavation and where to acquire fill for the airport island would solve each other. After all, south-east England has everything else, so why not let it have the radioactive dump as well.
On a slightly different theme, business and high-tech industry tend to locate where there are good air services, and additional air services are devloped where business and high-tech industry provide a demand. Despite short-term tweaks, the limits on capacity at Heathrow are tending to break this positive feedback loop. Either a solution will be found in less time than it would take to open Boris Island or build a third runway, or things will go elsewhere. If that elsewhere is not to be outside the UK, then there must be investment in at least one other UK hub outside the London area.
Both the midlands and north-west england, or even central Scotland, could already provide the traveller seed to support a hub. What is needed is provision and promotion of regional and long-haul services from one of those potential hubs.
Manchester is already attracting long-haul operations by non-uk airlines, so perhaps with a relatively small investment the two runways at Manchester could provide the UK with the capacity and flexibility the third LHR runway would have produced without the expense and disturbance of building Boris Island.
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Skipness:
Do try harder please, at least make some effort to keep up. BA has maintained international short haul connectivity from LHR, even LUX moved back from LGW recently. It is regional domestic connections that we have lost, MME, LBA, INV, IOM etc
Do try harder please, at least make some effort to keep up. BA has maintained international short haul connectivity from LHR, even LUX moved back from LGW recently. It is regional domestic connections that we have lost, MME, LBA, INV, IOM etc
Utter racist bollocks and you need to stop peddling claptrap. How dare you? Am I ethnic being a Scot or is it just non whites you are objecting to? Frothing at the mouth like a Daily Mail reading pensioner gives you no credibility on these boards.
The truth, Skippy, is not an 'ism' created by New Labour, it is simply the truth. And if you cannot stand the truth, then take yourself back to your Grauniad fantasy-land. And this matter, that you find so distasteful, is important to this thread because if European populations were in decline then there would probably not be a need for a new Heathrow. So it is the very policy of the Greens (yes it is) that is forcing us to concrete over the south east with new runways (and destroying their precious environment).
BTW. The Scots are not a separate race, and therefore I can call you what I like and it could under no circumstances be called 'racism' - so please wind your Grauniad-orientated neck in and observe the reality of today's Europe.
Be under no doubt that the many and varied problems facing this country are caused in the main by well educated white people (like me !) who had all the opportunities and made some very poor strategic decisions. To blame the unlike, the foreign, to look down upon those who are different is abhorrent and the most un-British behaviour if I may say.
Lastly,
BA's Willie Walsh says he will not be checking in at 'Boris Island' - Telegraph
BA's Willie Walsh says he will not be checking in at 'Boris Island' - Telegraph
Sorry, unions, its not my fault, I did fight this proposal (just a little).....
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Last edited by silverstrata; 20th Jan 2012 at 01:55.
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Andyy
My point is that an airport located in, say, the Huntingdon area can serve London better than Heathrow due to far better & quicker links into central London & The City (just 40 mins by train into Kings-Cross at the moment, & that could be upgraded). Such a location will also be able to serve the industries & business of the Midlands AS WELL.
My point is that an airport located in, say, the Huntingdon area can serve London better than Heathrow due to far better & quicker links into central London & The City (just 40 mins by train into Kings-Cross at the moment, & that could be upgraded). Such a location will also be able to serve the industries & business of the Midlands AS WELL.
It is political suicide; the land costs would be stratospheric; the high powered opposition would be insurmountable; there would be endangered species discovered everywhere.......
It ain't going to happen. It will be hard enough to push through in the unpopulated and impoverished Esturary - but Middle England??
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Dairyground
vast amounts of material will be needed to raise the runways and other structures above sea level. Some could probably be found by dredging, but probably not enough, and more likely, insufficient with the right mechanical properties.
vast amounts of material will be needed to raise the runways and other structures above sea level. Some could probably be found by dredging, but probably not enough, and more likely, insufficient with the right mechanical properties.
Sand is all you require, as the Dutch have adequately demonstrated. See the rest of this thred for details.
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Do you really think you can get planning permission for the world's biggest airport around Huntingdon? Good luck to you if you eant to try. It is political suicide; the land costs would be stratospheric; the high powered opposition would be insurmountable; there would be endangered species discovered everywhere.......
silverstrata
Point of order .... the stroppy Cabin Crew all live in Glasgow and the Flight Crew mainly live in France.
Do agree on runway alignment though 25/07 would seem about right..
10,000 (??) stroppy cabin staff and flight crew who all live around Windsor.
Do agree on runway alignment though 25/07 would seem about right..
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Since when has it become 'racist' to say that the UK is FULL? Is it 'racist' to say Hong Kong is FULL? No, it is the truth (unless you like living like termites).
The UK is not full, it is unbalanced around the London area. The rest of the country is rather empty by comparison!
OK back to topic, explain to me why BA would move if Heathrow doesn't close? And if Heathrow does close, what happens to the jobs? It's that simple really. Mind you what does Willy Walsh know in comparison to you, he's only the CEO of IAG...You didn't answer my question, are you American or British?
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For the record, I don't read The Guardian, nor am I the biggest racist on the site, nor am I of Scandinavian descent..... I just work in a place where I know how to respect people and what not to say. That might be censorship or plain old good judgement but I will let the rest of you decide whether I am in the KKK.....
Enough said on this, SS shouts but will not listen but you're right, it's way off topic, so "I'm out." I'm off to airliners.net to begin a thread on my cunning plans to sort out Southern California's airports.
Enough said on this, SS shouts but will not listen but you're right, it's way off topic, so "I'm out." I'm off to airliners.net to begin a thread on my cunning plans to sort out Southern California's airports.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 21st Jan 2012 at 18:33.
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Skippy
For the record, I don't read The Guardian, nor am I the biggest racist on the site,
For the record, I don't read The Guardian, nor am I the biggest racist on the site,
Like most Guardianistas, you like to dish out the dirt, but when the truth blows back into your face you throw a hissy-fit (and deleting my posts that prove you to be a hypocrite).
But I expect that your true motivation in hurling insults, was to divert attention away from your failed arguments against the Siver-Boris Island. And the truth here is that it is becomming an undeniable imperitive that the UK has a major world hub with room for expansion and sufficient capacity to not cancel flights because of low-vis procedures.
Silver-Boris Island will be built. Not next year perhaps, but in the near future.
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Airline cost blow for 'Boris island'
The enormous cost of building a new airport in the Thames estuary will mean airlines paying seven times as much for landing fees compared with the present costs at Heathrow, an industry analysis has revealed.
Senior figures in the UK airports sector have told The Sunday Telegraph that the present cost of landing at Heathrow for airlines is about £15 per passenger.
That figure could rise to £100 per passenger for any new airport .........
The enormous cost of building a new airport in the Thames estuary will mean airlines paying seven times as much for landing fees compared with the present costs at Heathrow, an industry analysis has revealed.
Senior figures in the UK airports sector have told The Sunday Telegraph that the present cost of landing at Heathrow for airlines is about £15 per passenger.
That figure could rise to £100 per passenger for any new airport .........
Hardly an incentive to airlines to use it, those that have a choice will simply go to other airports, which may not even be in the UK. Shouldn't the government be absorbing some of the costs and thus incentivising airlines to use it rather than trying to recoup the cost in a short time period? But of course the money they might have used for that incentive has been blown on a pointless useless isolated rail link so that people can save 40 minutes going from the outskirts of London to Birmingham.