BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
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Virgin Atlantic, Air Transat, Emirates or Etihad ?
I think that given the tie up between Aer Lingus and Virgin on domestic flights, this would have a huge bearing on
1. whether Virgin would wish to compete with EI on LHR BFS and given the link between EI and VS, it would make better sense of codeshare and feed pax from BHD through LHR on EI
2. In the unlikely event that VS did enter the market it would have to be EI serviced, and therefore cannot see it being to BFS
As regards VS, the summer must hold demand and profitable demand for flights to Orlando or Toronto, and now that VS have 330, this could work. though they were in talking before, widely commented on but a bit late for 2013, maybe 2014. Who knows...
Folks, if the current, very public displays of malcontent about the flying or otherwise of flags continue at the same level as we've seen during the last week or so, then the number of inbound pax, not just to BFS, but also BHD and LDY could be seriously compromised.
I'm just back from England, and major news there, usurping stories about the US economy and even Afghanistan. Negative international news also, if the cover of The Gulf News and Das Spiegel are anything to go by. Major hits to pax levels can be expected.
I'm just back from England, and major news there, usurping stories about the US economy and even Afghanistan. Negative international news also, if the cover of The Gulf News and Das Spiegel are anything to go by. Major hits to pax levels can be expected.
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Thomson Airways (TOM)
Just had a look on BFS Wikipedia Site and looks like someone as put the following routes for Thomson Airways as all year routes:
Could well be one of the 'Big Announcements' they are going to make!!
BFS BHD
- Gran Canaria
- Lanzarote
- Malaga
- Tenerife
Could well be one of the 'Big Announcements' they are going to make!!
BFS BHD
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Thomson Airways
Would hope that they'd stay year round 
Also if they do I don't see why SSH wouldn't work... It's still very warm in the winter !
But maybe that bit on Wikipedia go mean something else. Do Thomson do holidays on behalf of say Jet2 or Easyjet for the winter months ?
Would also appear that Jet2 are continuing ALC through next winter thouh it think that was previously mentioned on this page. Would be great if they kept Lanzarote year round too ! And maybe put a 757 on the canary routes ?
Also if they do I don't see why SSH wouldn't work... It's still very warm in the winter !
But maybe that bit on Wikipedia go mean something else. Do Thomson do holidays on behalf of say Jet2 or Easyjet for the winter months ?
Would also appear that Jet2 are continuing ALC through next winter thouh it think that was previously mentioned on this page. Would be great if they kept Lanzarote year round too ! And maybe put a 757 on the canary routes ?
Last edited by Mlinnie; 9th Jan 2013 at 21:19.
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Maybe I'm getting too long in the tooth for all this "excitement" over spurious entries on Wiki about bucket and spade flights. And whether a 757 or an A320 does a route is simply not important to me.
I'd be much more interested in flights being secured to other destinations in Europe. Frankfurt or Dusseldorf, Berlin, Madrid, Rome for starters. Some of these have already been tried by the LCCs, with mixed success, and duly dropped. Is the time now right for a carrier using smaller equipment (say E170/E190 series) to make these thinner routes work? Two or three days a week to all of the above would greatly open our trading opportunities, both inbound and outbound. All of the above would also allow hub connections to be made away from the traditional Heathrow/Gatwick options for those looking for long haul flights.
What I don't believe we can sustain is a middle east flight, not with Emirates and Etihad currently serving Dublin a hundred odd miles away. I also believe we could sustain a weekly or hopefully twice weekly service to Toronto to supplement our only other scheduled trans-Atlantic service to Newark.
I wonder will any of the above happen during the "momentous" 50th anniversary year of BFS?
I'd be much more interested in flights being secured to other destinations in Europe. Frankfurt or Dusseldorf, Berlin, Madrid, Rome for starters. Some of these have already been tried by the LCCs, with mixed success, and duly dropped. Is the time now right for a carrier using smaller equipment (say E170/E190 series) to make these thinner routes work? Two or three days a week to all of the above would greatly open our trading opportunities, both inbound and outbound. All of the above would also allow hub connections to be made away from the traditional Heathrow/Gatwick options for those looking for long haul flights.
What I don't believe we can sustain is a middle east flight, not with Emirates and Etihad currently serving Dublin a hundred odd miles away. I also believe we could sustain a weekly or hopefully twice weekly service to Toronto to supplement our only other scheduled trans-Atlantic service to Newark.
I wonder will any of the above happen during the "momentous" 50th anniversary year of BFS?
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The problem in Belfast is that virtually every airline would choose BHD, primarily for it's proximety to Belfast city centre but it cannot cater for such expansion. As an airport with lower operating costs that is more ideally located, why would anybody really want to choose or prefer BFS over BHD?
I guarantee that flag-carriers from overseas like Lufthansa, KLM, Air France etc. who serve comparable cities like Glasgow and Edinburgh would like to serve Belfast but want BHD as their airport but because it would struggle to cater for such carriers, they just ignore this market and look elsewhere which is more profitable.
Airlines don't think "oh we can't use BHD so we'll go to BFS instead" they are more likely to think "we can't use BHD and as BFS is not right for our business model, where else can we look at?".
It's an even more complex issue becuase you can't really close one of them. I know it's been suggested but BFS can't close because it is the only one that can handle anything bigger than an A320 but closing BHD would probably anger more people. I'd say adopt a similar model that Glasgow has. Extend the runway, terminal and apron at BHD and make that the main airport (like GLA) and then make BFS the secondary one (like PIK)but I know many will be against me on that.
I guarantee that flag-carriers from overseas like Lufthansa, KLM, Air France etc. who serve comparable cities like Glasgow and Edinburgh would like to serve Belfast but want BHD as their airport but because it would struggle to cater for such carriers, they just ignore this market and look elsewhere which is more profitable.
Airlines don't think "oh we can't use BHD so we'll go to BFS instead" they are more likely to think "we can't use BHD and as BFS is not right for our business model, where else can we look at?".
It's an even more complex issue becuase you can't really close one of them. I know it's been suggested but BFS can't close because it is the only one that can handle anything bigger than an A320 but closing BHD would probably anger more people. I'd say adopt a similar model that Glasgow has. Extend the runway, terminal and apron at BHD and make that the main airport (like GLA) and then make BFS the secondary one (like PIK)but I know many will be against me on that.
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BFS or BHD
I think more people would prefer BFS to BHD if there was better accessibility to it ! More buses, upgraded roads and a rail link to Antrim/Belfast. When you land in BFS it feels like your landing in the middle of nowhere
But at the end of the day people will still be angry no matter what airport you close...
But at the end of the day people will still be angry no matter what airport you close...
Last edited by Mlinnie; 10th Jan 2013 at 14:57.
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I don't think any airport should be closed.
Just like the Glasgow model, Belfast-City should be developed into the main airport. Extend runway to 2,300m ish and build a new terminal (even alongside existing one is feasible). No matter what people say, there IS enough space to do it all. It should get all the airlines like FlyBe, Aer Lingus, BA, Jet2, Thomson, Thomas Cook, EasyJet, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, United and maybe a few other longer haul eg, Air Transat or Emirates (A330). Yes you'd get everybody in Belfast complaining of noise but much more importantly, passengers could get to Belfast in minutes by road and rail and it would massively help Northern Ireland economy and put its airport system at a way better advantage than Glasgow and Edinburgh for instance.
Aldergrove airport should become the smaller secondary and lower cost airport with airlines like Ryanair and Wizzair and all of Northern Ireland cargo movements, very much like the role Prestwick airport has for Scotland.
Just like the Glasgow model, Belfast-City should be developed into the main airport. Extend runway to 2,300m ish and build a new terminal (even alongside existing one is feasible). No matter what people say, there IS enough space to do it all. It should get all the airlines like FlyBe, Aer Lingus, BA, Jet2, Thomson, Thomas Cook, EasyJet, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, United and maybe a few other longer haul eg, Air Transat or Emirates (A330). Yes you'd get everybody in Belfast complaining of noise but much more importantly, passengers could get to Belfast in minutes by road and rail and it would massively help Northern Ireland economy and put its airport system at a way better advantage than Glasgow and Edinburgh for instance.
Aldergrove airport should become the smaller secondary and lower cost airport with airlines like Ryanair and Wizzair and all of Northern Ireland cargo movements, very much like the role Prestwick airport has for Scotland.
Last edited by FRatSTN; 10th Jan 2013 at 15:22.
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Key points dog. BHD has physical/geographical/environmental restrictions which cannot be overcome.
However within these limitations scope for further evolution exists with the next generation a/c - B737/A320 NEO and coming up on the outside Bombardier C series.
The C series potential is enormous but it is too early to speculate on new destinations at this stage.
Regarding airport closure this is Friday night pub stuff. Both airports are profitable and if the sale of Cardiff to the Welsh government proceeds this could result in significant investment at BFS.
Finally a rail link to BFS is pure fantasy. If it was an economic runner BFS would have found the money already. The taxpayer cannot pay for it! If Dublin cannot make it work.....
BFS management raise this issue periodically to deflect attention from their more pressing problems.
However within these limitations scope for further evolution exists with the next generation a/c - B737/A320 NEO and coming up on the outside Bombardier C series.
The C series potential is enormous but it is too early to speculate on new destinations at this stage.
Regarding airport closure this is Friday night pub stuff. Both airports are profitable and if the sale of Cardiff to the Welsh government proceeds this could result in significant investment at BFS.
Finally a rail link to BFS is pure fantasy. If it was an economic runner BFS would have found the money already. The taxpayer cannot pay for it! If Dublin cannot make it work.....
BFS management raise this issue periodically to deflect attention from their more pressing problems.
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R
Agree RE Cardiff Rudder, how that place stays open is beyond me given the proximity of BRS and BHX.
I think there is a big difference though between DUB and BFS re a train link. The nearest track to Dublin is many miles away, the nearest track to BFS is just past the 07 undershoot, the main problem is getting pax to the terminal (crappy roads for a shuttlebus/ too expensive to lay connecting track) but it must be a realistic future goal.
egarding airport closure this is Friday night pub stuff. Both airports are profitable and if the sale of Cardiff to the Welsh government proceeds this could result in significant investment at BFS.
Finally a rail link to BFS is pure fantasy. If it was an economic runner BFS would have found the money already. The taxpayer cannot pay for it! If Dublin cannot make it work.....
BFS management raise this issue periodically to deflect attention from their more pressing problems.
Finally a rail link to BFS is pure fantasy. If it was an economic runner BFS would have found the money already. The taxpayer cannot pay for it! If Dublin cannot make it work.....
BFS management raise this issue periodically to deflect attention from their more pressing problems.
I think there is a big difference though between DUB and BFS re a train link. The nearest track to Dublin is many miles away, the nearest track to BFS is just past the 07 undershoot, the main problem is getting pax to the terminal (crappy roads for a shuttlebus/ too expensive to lay connecting track) but it must be a realistic future goal.
Rail link to BFS
It's not realistic to envisage there ever being a rail link to BFS.
Aside from the chicken & egg situation of PAX numbers not being sufficient to justify the expenditure on such a link...
How do you help boost numbers? By making access easier and competing with the ease of access offered by BHD.
The problem with a rail-link spur to the line at RWY 07 threshold is the track infrastructure onwards from there to Belfast.
IIRC NIR mothballed that line in 2003 - the resulting upgrade work to bring it back into service and the additional cost of dualling the track (from current single track) or provision of sufficient passing loops to allow a reasonable freq or service would be prohibitively expensive.
To go the other way via Antrim would require a spur loop to be constructed south of the Belmont rd to avoid having to switch ends in Antrim station.
A much easier solution would be a 7 mile motorway spur from the M2
Aside from the chicken & egg situation of PAX numbers not being sufficient to justify the expenditure on such a link...
How do you help boost numbers? By making access easier and competing with the ease of access offered by BHD.
The problem with a rail-link spur to the line at RWY 07 threshold is the track infrastructure onwards from there to Belfast.
IIRC NIR mothballed that line in 2003 - the resulting upgrade work to bring it back into service and the additional cost of dualling the track (from current single track) or provision of sufficient passing loops to allow a reasonable freq or service would be prohibitively expensive.
To go the other way via Antrim would require a spur loop to be constructed south of the Belmont rd to avoid having to switch ends in Antrim station.
A much easier solution would be a 7 mile motorway spur from the M2
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More short-term thinking in regards of transport in N.I.
At the moment BFS seems stuck in the middle of nowhere but geographicly it has the potenial to be a transport hub for N.I. With some road improvements, Enniskillen, Omagh, Cookstown, Magherafelt and Larne- Ballyclare express hourly buses. Trains from Derry and Ballymena to Belfast stopping at BFS, a new route from Carrick to Portadown could stop there as well as a dedecated 3 per hour Antrim-BFS-Belfast service. Unlike present Translink policy, all these services would have 5/10 min connections. How hard is building 800m of double track over flat farmland? and how much would it cost? Train passenger numbers would be boasted by commuters from Crumlin and Glenavy. At Antrim station there is already a spare platform and spur. If 37.5 BILLION taxpayer money can be found for rail projects in England, why cant 50 million not be found for this? Unless a runway extension at city which can accomodate west coast America flights is built, BFS will remain essential to aviation in N.I.
At the moment BFS seems stuck in the middle of nowhere but geographicly it has the potenial to be a transport hub for N.I. With some road improvements, Enniskillen, Omagh, Cookstown, Magherafelt and Larne- Ballyclare express hourly buses. Trains from Derry and Ballymena to Belfast stopping at BFS, a new route from Carrick to Portadown could stop there as well as a dedecated 3 per hour Antrim-BFS-Belfast service. Unlike present Translink policy, all these services would have 5/10 min connections. How hard is building 800m of double track over flat farmland? and how much would it cost? Train passenger numbers would be boasted by commuters from Crumlin and Glenavy. At Antrim station there is already a spare platform and spur. If 37.5 BILLION taxpayer money can be found for rail projects in England, why cant 50 million not be found for this? Unless a runway extension at city which can accomodate west coast America flights is built, BFS will remain essential to aviation in N.I.
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To do all of the investment that BFS needs to become a viable airport, you'd be better going with my idea of transforming BHD to the main airport with 5-10 minute road and rail links and let BFS take the role of LCC's (FR and W6 especially) and cargo flights.
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More short-term thinking in regards of transport in N.I. At the moment BFS seems stuck in the middle of nowhere but geographicly it has the potenial to be a transport hub for N.I. With some road improvements, Enniskillen, Omagh, Cookstown, Magherafelt and Larne- Ballyclare express hourly buses. Trains from Derry and Ballymena to Belfast stopping at BFS, a new route from Carrick to Portadown could stop there as well as a dedecated 3 per hour Antrim-BFS-Belfast service. Unlike present Translink policy, all these services would have 5/10 min connections. How hard is building 800m of double track over flat farmland? and how much would it cost? Train passenger numbers would be boasted by commuters from Crumlin and Glenavy. At Antrim station there is already a spare platform and spur. If 37.5 BILLION taxpayer money can be found for rail projects in England, why cant 50 million not be found for this? Unless a runway extension at city which can accomodate west coast America flights is built, BFS will remain essential to aviation in N.I.
At the moment BFS seems stuck in the middle of nowhere but geographicly it has the potenial to be a transport hub for N.I. With some road improvements, Enniskillen, Omagh, Cookstown, Magherafelt and Larne- Ballyclare express hourly buses. Trains from Derry and Ballymena to Belfast stopping at BFS, a new route from Carrick to Portadown could stop there as well as a dedecated 3 per hour Antrim-BFS-Belfast service. Unlike present Translink policy, all these services would have 5/10 min connections. How hard is building 800m of double track over flat farmland? and how much would it cost? Train passenger numbers would be boasted by commuters from Crumlin and Glenavy. At Antrim station there is already a spare platform and spur. If 37.5 BILLION taxpayer money can be found for rail projects in England, why cant 50 million not be found for this? Unless a runway extension at city which can accomodate west coast America flights is built, BFS will remain essential to aviation in N.I.
As some of the people further back the thread have pointed out, even if the extension at city goes ahead, it can never be the main airport for the country because of its geographical and environmental limitations. It can only be Aldergrove. I think the road access from the M2 is essential and a train link too.
It is like the MD up there has been saying, an aviation strategy for NI has to be created to ensure we don't just lose everything to Dublin, the lord knows they have enough advantages already!
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FRatSTN
Local groups and more importantly politicians will not let the runway at BHD be extended( i thought you were of the situation there?) and what about the curfew? Back to the drawing board FR-
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Airport Statistics Notes | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
7th March 2013, the CAA website says!
EI-BUD
7th March 2013, the CAA website says!
EI-BUD