BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Yes Aer Ryan agreed, however a service is better than no service. And given two other factors, 1) Norwegian look set to make a big go of whichever out of town airports they pick and 2) they are starting to look at through ticketing/baggage arrangements with other airlines I'd say it's highly likely connections will spring up. Scheduled airlines use Stewart for instance already, it's just not terribly busy, not quite the military base it's being made out to be.
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Going to be closer to 2 hours from NYC. You have to encounter Manhattan traffic.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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In NY city, marketing an unused, unknown, far away airport (Stewart) and an unfamiliar airline (Norwegian) operating to a tertiary market (Belfast) will be a tough task.
The lack of public transport on the NY end of the route will make it an expensive taxi ride to downtown for passengers. UberX is quoting $160 - $200 or up to $300 for an XL.
Norwegian will have to rely even more on Belfast based traffic heading to NY than United. No connections. No US loyalty base. I'd be much more optimistic if this was flying to JFK than Stewart.
The lack of public transport on the NY end of the route will make it an expensive taxi ride to downtown for passengers. UberX is quoting $160 - $200 or up to $300 for an XL.
Norwegian will have to rely even more on Belfast based traffic heading to NY than United. No connections. No US loyalty base. I'd be much more optimistic if this was flying to JFK than Stewart.
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Yes Aer Ryan agreed, however a service is better than no service. And given two other factors, 1) Norwegian look set to make a big go of whichever out of town airports they pick and 2) they are starting to look at through ticketing/baggage arrangements with other airlines I'd say it's highly likely connections will spring up. Scheduled airlines use Stewart for instance already, it's just not terribly busy, not quite the military base it's being made out to be.
I'm. It sure if any route is better than no route. If Norwegian fail, it will be very challenging to attract other airlines onto the route.
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You could say the same of SNN and ORK. It won't take long for transfer and coach companies to arrive on the scene. Remember this is how FR made it big, flying into out of town airports. Over time they gained bargaining power.
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its time airlines dont have now to allow routes to bed in and establish ie UA NCL. So cant see them allowing years to gain passengers and recognition at secondary airports.
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The whole point however of United pulling out was not lack of passengers or loosing money, it was the passenger mix not fitting their business model. Norwegian is driven by leisure passengers, to me that and the combination of low fares which will potentially pull people away from DUB will be the key.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Mart901,
If Norwegian entered Belfast, they will not pull many away from Dublin. With daily service to New York by 737 (lets assume a 189 seats), at 100% fill they will marginally improve over the numbers achieved by the daily 757 of UA.
More importantly:
Flights to the USA from Dublin are carrying a significant amount of passengers from points in the UK and Europe, not just EI but OALs too e.g. Finnair, Turkish, Lufthansa, Swiss, Air France. Star, Sky Team and One World are all well represented in Dublin.
UA have said that 60% of their traffic goes on from EWR and EI are seeing a similar proportion of traffic not flying P2P, i.e. flying on from US gateways.
More importantly a greater share of tickets for travel to/ from or through Dublin are purchased in the US, not just for EI but the US carriers to.
Though small the numbers that Icelandair pick up at BHD (these will be destination US/CA), these will eat into what a dedicated service ex BFS would deliver, this should be added to the overall mix.
So as much as I like to see Belfast Airports prosper, there is no threat posed here to DUB, and with a brand like Norwegian who to date have no onward feed in the US and little brand awareness(though I don't underestimate this will change), I am not convinced that they will see that great of uplift in numbers when compared to UA, as like through Dublin, a lot of people who flew UA were going to other points in the US and not just New York. Data I have seen recently for the whole Belfast market shows that other points can be just as popular as NYC, like LAS, MCO, SFO and BOS, and a lot of this is low yield Leisure business.
IMHO, WOW would be a way better fit for BFS right now. Feeding passengers through KEF offering a range of destinations not just in the US but also in Canada, a destination that has been popular in the NI market in the past.
If Norwegian entered Belfast, they will not pull many away from Dublin. With daily service to New York by 737 (lets assume a 189 seats), at 100% fill they will marginally improve over the numbers achieved by the daily 757 of UA.
More importantly:
Flights to the USA from Dublin are carrying a significant amount of passengers from points in the UK and Europe, not just EI but OALs too e.g. Finnair, Turkish, Lufthansa, Swiss, Air France. Star, Sky Team and One World are all well represented in Dublin.
UA have said that 60% of their traffic goes on from EWR and EI are seeing a similar proportion of traffic not flying P2P, i.e. flying on from US gateways.
More importantly a greater share of tickets for travel to/ from or through Dublin are purchased in the US, not just for EI but the US carriers to.
Though small the numbers that Icelandair pick up at BHD (these will be destination US/CA), these will eat into what a dedicated service ex BFS would deliver, this should be added to the overall mix.
So as much as I like to see Belfast Airports prosper, there is no threat posed here to DUB, and with a brand like Norwegian who to date have no onward feed in the US and little brand awareness(though I don't underestimate this will change), I am not convinced that they will see that great of uplift in numbers when compared to UA, as like through Dublin, a lot of people who flew UA were going to other points in the US and not just New York. Data I have seen recently for the whole Belfast market shows that other points can be just as popular as NYC, like LAS, MCO, SFO and BOS, and a lot of this is low yield Leisure business.
IMHO, WOW would be a way better fit for BFS right now. Feeding passengers through KEF offering a range of destinations not just in the US but also in Canada, a destination that has been popular in the NI market in the past.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Public transport from Shannon is poor and it has 2m Pax. Stewart has 5 departures a day at present, many on CRJs. This does not allow for public transport. ORK is a few miles from the city, so it isn't apples to apples.
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I meant ORK and SNN being a territory market. Also EI-BUD I mean pulling NI pax back from DUB with the lower fares as opposed to otherwise. But yes indeed it's a needle in a haystack
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Most of the Shannon busses are either local busses or on the Limerick - Galway express bus. The Stewart busses would be airport only.
My point is that in Ireland, good public transport exists and in the US, public transport is sparse on the ground. A $400 return cost for an Uber would be painful after a cheap flight, considering Belfast to Dublin Airport on the bus is probably no more than $25 return. (far less than just the prerequisite 15% tip in the US on top of the Uber fare)
How many UK airports have flights to NY? 6?
My point is that in Ireland, good public transport exists and in the US, public transport is sparse on the ground. A $400 return cost for an Uber would be painful after a cheap flight, considering Belfast to Dublin Airport on the bus is probably no more than $25 return. (far less than just the prerequisite 15% tip in the US on top of the Uber fare)
How many UK airports have flights to NY? 6?
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As if no transfer/coach company will offer a service. I would imagine the vast majority of pax would be heading to New York, even New York hotels themselves offer transport. It's guaranteed revenue, 100+ pax arriving in pre-booked transfer coaches
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Would something like this be outside the realms of possibility for Belfast? Emirates to start Dubai-Athens-Newark flights, likely to irk U.S. carriers | Reuters it would kill two birds with one stone, get a direct link to both UAE and the US. It would be good for connecting pax as well. This will be the first direct year round flight from Athens to the US in a long time. One issue (i'm sure there are plenty) might be the aircraft type and whether BFS could cope with a 777 or similar as Emirates only operate the big aircraft types? It would be great if BFS could attract this kind of fifth freedom flight option.
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It'll never happen, especially given that from June all three Middle Eastern carriers will operate at least daily from Dublin, with Emirates considering adding the A380 on their route to DXB. It would be much easier (and profitable) for Emirates to fill a B773 (or A380) if they use a major airport as the stop-over. Athens, despite being a very popular tourist destination, only has seasonal services to the US (PHL, JFK, EWR) from US carriers - it makes sense for Emirates to offer the year round EWR connection. In addition, Emirates already operates double daily flights from ATH to DXB, albeit with a stop-over in Larnaca; the DXB end of the route is well established - flying from Belfast would be an complete shot in the dark.