Jet2 4
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Netherlands
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30?!?! During the past winters that numbers weren't even reached on the busiest days. On the most quiet days it's not uncommon that LBA-AMS-LBA and LBA-DUS-LBA are the ONLY passenger flights of the day in the WHOLE Jet2 network, plus the Royal Mail flights in the evening.
Join Date: May 2009
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Although the company is dramatically "top heavy" with staff (by that I mean the day to day operation runs on a shoestring but LFFH and The Mint are chocablock with people who just seem to generate red-tape) there does not seem to be anyone actually actively looking for business to maximise the utilisation of the fleet (in the Winter). Someone at the top needs to take a serious step back and look at the bigger picture here. A/c only earn money when they are in the air, and sadly, most of the time ours aren't :-( Boeing may have given a massive discount on 27 B738s but that is no excuse not to kick ass and make money.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I just checked the whole network for November - mid-December:
BFS:
Tuesdays: 0 flights (there's one to TFS which ends on November 17th and doesn't restart until late December)
Wednesdays: 0 flights (there's one to ACE which ends on November 18th and doesn't restart until mid February)
EMA:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS
Wednesdays: 0 flights
EDI:
Tuesdays: 0 flights
Wednesdays: 0 flights
GLA:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS (there's also one to ALC which ends on November 10th and doesn't restart until late December)
Wednesdays: 0 flights
LBA:
Tuesdays: 3 flights: AMS, DUS, TFS (there's also one to ALC which ends on November 10th and doesn't restart until April)
Wednesdays: 2 flights: AMS, DUS
MAN:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS
Wednesdays: 0 flights
NCL:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS
Wednesdays: 0 flights
So, as I said LBA has been and will still be the only base with passenger flights every day of the week during the whole winter season. And it has been like this for many years in a row now.
Ofcourse BFS, EDI and NCL will still have their Royal Mail flights (as well as EMA, but that's only a destination, no mail aircraft are based there), but we were only discussing passenger flights now.
BFS:
Tuesdays: 0 flights (there's one to TFS which ends on November 17th and doesn't restart until late December)
Wednesdays: 0 flights (there's one to ACE which ends on November 18th and doesn't restart until mid February)
EMA:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS
Wednesdays: 0 flights
EDI:
Tuesdays: 0 flights
Wednesdays: 0 flights
GLA:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS (there's also one to ALC which ends on November 10th and doesn't restart until late December)
Wednesdays: 0 flights
LBA:
Tuesdays: 3 flights: AMS, DUS, TFS (there's also one to ALC which ends on November 10th and doesn't restart until April)
Wednesdays: 2 flights: AMS, DUS
MAN:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS
Wednesdays: 0 flights
NCL:
Tuesdays: 1 flight: TFS
Wednesdays: 0 flights
So, as I said LBA has been and will still be the only base with passenger flights every day of the week during the whole winter season. And it has been like this for many years in a row now.
Ofcourse BFS, EDI and NCL will still have their Royal Mail flights (as well as EMA, but that's only a destination, no mail aircraft are based there), but we were only discussing passenger flights now.
Last edited by BasilFawlty; 5th Sep 2015 at 00:57.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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OK there's two days a week when it's more or less zero. But let's take a Friday in November as a representative non midweek winter day--- noting this is before the skiing season starts. What's the aircraft requirement to deliver that? I started working it out before getting fed up with red and yellow screens.
But I do agree with those who say this is a significant change in the business model and cost base. They will want to have enough of a baseload to be running those 27 around the year, allowing for a maintenance programme.
But I do agree with those who say this is a significant change in the business model and cost base. They will want to have enough of a baseload to be running those 27 around the year, allowing for a maintenance programme.
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I understand 11 of the new planes will just replace those on lease at the moment.
Three planes are to be retired this winter, so this takes care of all the aircraft Boeing will deliver up to the end of 2017.
I am sure will can see more retirements and with a growth forecast of 5% possible over the next three years, 10 will be for growth and another 4 retirements sweeps up all the new aircraft.
It is expected now Iran has done a deal with the west they will increase world oil availability by 10% in the next year. Opec producers need to increase output as their economies are under pressure. all reducing the price of a barrel of oil.
Jet2 having better fuel performance in future and a possible cheaper oil price, saving lease costs, may allow them to continue their present schedule.
Three planes are to be retired this winter, so this takes care of all the aircraft Boeing will deliver up to the end of 2017.
I am sure will can see more retirements and with a growth forecast of 5% possible over the next three years, 10 will be for growth and another 4 retirements sweeps up all the new aircraft.
It is expected now Iran has done a deal with the west they will increase world oil availability by 10% in the next year. Opec producers need to increase output as their economies are under pressure. all reducing the price of a barrel of oil.
Jet2 having better fuel performance in future and a possible cheaper oil price, saving lease costs, may allow them to continue their present schedule.
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Boeing 737-300's G-CELB/D/S will be withdrawn from service this winter. These will be replaced with further 2nd hand Boeing 737-800s which are been acquired as replacements.
A further 5 ageing Boeing 737-300's will be withdrawn next winter 2016 to be replaced by the new fleet like-for-like.
The current 11x Boeing 737-800s which are leased will then have there leases cancelled and be replaced like for like on delivery of the new aircraft in 2017. Once they have gone they maybe some growth.
The Boeing 757-200 fleet will all under go heavy mantanice this winter with some receiving the glass cockpit upgrades and will all be kept in service for at least another 5 years and maybe beyond.
Meanwhile Boeing 737-300QC, G-CELR has now been converted permently to passenger flights only due to less aircraft been required for the overnight royal mail contract even though it will keep its cargo door. They maybe others to follow as well.
A further 5 ageing Boeing 737-300's will be withdrawn next winter 2016 to be replaced by the new fleet like-for-like.
The current 11x Boeing 737-800s which are leased will then have there leases cancelled and be replaced like for like on delivery of the new aircraft in 2017. Once they have gone they maybe some growth.
The Boeing 757-200 fleet will all under go heavy mantanice this winter with some receiving the glass cockpit upgrades and will all be kept in service for at least another 5 years and maybe beyond.
Meanwhile Boeing 737-300QC, G-CELR has now been converted permently to passenger flights only due to less aircraft been required for the overnight royal mail contract even though it will keep its cargo door. They maybe others to follow as well.
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Chesty Morgan
"Internal resources and debt" doesn't quite explain where they are going to find 2.6 Billion dollars.
If they can find that kind of money there isn't really any excuse for offloading a large portion of their workforce over the winter time.
After reading the other threads, it sounds like there won't be any crew left to fly their current aircraft, let alone 27 new ones!
If they can find that kind of money there isn't really any excuse for offloading a large portion of their workforce over the winter time.
After reading the other threads, it sounds like there won't be any crew left to fly their current aircraft, let alone 27 new ones!
Gender Faculty Specialist
They don't need to find 2.6 billion dollars nor will they need to crew 27 new aircraft.
Anyway, "internal resources and debt" or, in English, a cash deposit and finance, answers quite nicely how they are going to pay for them which was the question in your first post.
Where they find the cash is a different question altogether.
Anyway, "internal resources and debt" or, in English, a cash deposit and finance, answers quite nicely how they are going to pay for them which was the question in your first post.
Where they find the cash is a different question altogether.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Cost of deal.
I wouldn't be surprised if the cost was more like $1.3 billion.
It is well known that Airlines do not pay the full list price.
What Jet2 actually paid is between Boeing and the Senior management of Jet2.
But at present exchange rates that is only about £32 million per airframe.
Does anyone think that other Airlines are actually paying cash for their orders. BA get theirs through leasing companies. I would very much doubt that even the Middle East carriers up front. They would probably pay a deposit and then finance them through a favourable ME bank.
All above ramblings is just my own thoughts.
It is well known that Airlines do not pay the full list price.
What Jet2 actually paid is between Boeing and the Senior management of Jet2.
But at present exchange rates that is only about £32 million per airframe.
Does anyone think that other Airlines are actually paying cash for their orders. BA get theirs through leasing companies. I would very much doubt that even the Middle East carriers up front. They would probably pay a deposit and then finance them through a favourable ME bank.
All above ramblings is just my own thoughts.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Yes that's the ballpark I was thinking. So written down over 16 years @ 2000 flying hours/year that gives £1000 per hour in depreciation plus ??? in interest/cost of capital. For a two hour flight that's around £10-15 per single ticket.
That's probably manageable provided they can fill them up for the equivalent of two rotations for 250 days/year.
That's probably manageable provided they can fill them up for the equivalent of two rotations for 250 days/year.
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Anyone know why LS517 (NCL-TFS) diverted into SCQ tonight? It picked up a 3.5 hour delay and has only just landed in TFS now. Appears NCL bound PAX have been HOTACd until tomorrow lunchtime.
Last edited by GLAinsider; 7th Sep 2015 at 09:13.