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Lighty89. With due respect "Death Trap" is a strong statement. An old car can be called such even if it has a valid MOT. Jet2 maintain their aircraft to CAA standards and they all have C of As. Yes they have an old fleet and as a result more tech issues, but Death Traps....Really? Feel free to shoot me down. I am not a lawyer just an Aircraft engineer with a PPL. You are entitled to your opinion and I mine but I feel I may know a little more about flight safety than you.
Join Date: May 2014
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Yes I know I understand it was a strongly worded statement. One which I thought I was entitled to express on this forum, as Internet forums are usually for debate - obviously not this one.
This is not an area of law which I have a great knowledge in, so I will take notice of the "warnings" that have been given.
The post has since been deleted.
This is not an area of law which I have a great knowledge in, so I will take notice of the "warnings" that have been given.
The post has since been deleted.
Balair
I would take issue with you.
The stuff being put around about Monarch is for the most part half truths and conjecture that could put jobs at risk.
The incident yesterday with Jet2 was FACT, and as I feared the National Press, and BBC are coming forward with barmy reports that won't do Jet2, or, sadly, their employees any good. This isn't the first time that Jet2 has got into the news this year for what could be termed safety related issues. It doesn't take me to put employees jobs at risk, the bad luck (and hopefully it is just bad luck) that Jet2 have suffered has done it on it's own.
ATNotts,
Two of your quotes;
"I ask, it is really wise to fan the flames of "bad publicity", putting Monarch employee's jobs at risk? Personally I consider it bad form, and something that we shouldn't be indulging in in these forums."
"Is this the second or third time this season that Jet2 has closed EMA's runway?
They are going to have to watch themselves, else the national press will get hold of the story, and that could have consequences. I suppose that because Jet2 don't serve London, they aren't that interested though!"
It seems your concerns for airline's employees are rather selective...!
Two of your quotes;
"I ask, it is really wise to fan the flames of "bad publicity", putting Monarch employee's jobs at risk? Personally I consider it bad form, and something that we shouldn't be indulging in in these forums."
"Is this the second or third time this season that Jet2 has closed EMA's runway?
They are going to have to watch themselves, else the national press will get hold of the story, and that could have consequences. I suppose that because Jet2 don't serve London, they aren't that interested though!"
It seems your concerns for airline's employees are rather selective...!
The stuff being put around about Monarch is for the most part half truths and conjecture that could put jobs at risk.
The incident yesterday with Jet2 was FACT, and as I feared the National Press, and BBC are coming forward with barmy reports that won't do Jet2, or, sadly, their employees any good. This isn't the first time that Jet2 has got into the news this year for what could be termed safety related issues. It doesn't take me to put employees jobs at risk, the bad luck (and hopefully it is just bad luck) that Jet2 have suffered has done it on it's own.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Lighty89 - Yes, we're all allowed to express an opinion ("free speech"). What we're not allowed to do is libel others ("break the law"). As a lawyer, I'd expect you to be familiar with that concept. And the law applies generally, not just to this particular forum.
As for your "I know what you said is unfounded" (referring to me), please enlighten me. Which bit of my posting is "unfounded" and why?
As for your "I know what you said is unfounded" (referring to me), please enlighten me. Which bit of my posting is "unfounded" and why?
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LS121 was reported as a medical emergency. Presumably the time taken to descend from 38000 to anywhere meant Stansted was a sensible choice, even though they were over the channel at the time.
It's now back on its way. Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!
It's now back on its way. Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!
Last edited by mikeygd; 4th Sep 2014 at 19:39. Reason: Speeling
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Jet 2 had a previous at EMA in June was over and done in about 15 mins no diversions needed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/plane_...k/14367781375/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/plane_...k/14367781375/
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Light 89
Seems that EC-ISY is not as blessed as you may think.
I think it is also worth adding that with the very rigorous safety and reporting culture in the UK, NOTHING goes unreported.
I do not have the same confidence that countries outside our shorelines have the same culture.
Incident: Privilege Style B752 near Valencia on Nov 3rd 2008, navigation problems
I think it is also worth adding that with the very rigorous safety and reporting culture in the UK, NOTHING goes unreported.
I do not have the same confidence that countries outside our shorelines have the same culture.
Incident: Privilege Style B752 near Valencia on Nov 3rd 2008, navigation problems
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Lighty89, pprune.org is a US based site and hence US laws are working here.
LNIDA, LN-NON is the oldest 737-800, but DY still has 9 737-300, all older than LN-NON, and the almost 25 year old wart hog LN-KKW is the oldest of the DY fleet. To link this to Jet2, LN-KKW is younger than all Jet2 G-CEL_ registered 737-300. All 737-300 in the DY fleet will be gone by the end of 2015 and in 2015 they only will have 5 737-300 in their fleet (all 4 leased 737-300 and 3 leased old 737-800 will be returned to lessor at the end of this year, among the three 737-800 is LN-NON).
LNIDA, LN-NON is the oldest 737-800, but DY still has 9 737-300, all older than LN-NON, and the almost 25 year old wart hog LN-KKW is the oldest of the DY fleet. To link this to Jet2, LN-KKW is younger than all Jet2 G-CEL_ registered 737-300. All 737-300 in the DY fleet will be gone by the end of 2015 and in 2015 they only will have 5 737-300 in their fleet (all 4 leased 737-300 and 3 leased old 737-800 will be returned to lessor at the end of this year, among the three 737-800 is LN-NON).
Join Date: Dec 2012
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LN-KGL
Yes very much aware of the 300's as you say due to be phased out in late 14/15 but i was specifically referring to the NG fleet to support my assertion that as aircraft age they become less reliable, not unsafe of course, but its been said before sooner or later one of these events won't be handled correctly....
The press have already latched on to Jet2 incidents, it won't take long before the age of the airframes are in the red tops, yes BA operate some very old 400's out of LGW but they've had them and maintained them from new.
If you look at the ASL freighter (now scrapped) that shut EMA earlier in the year when the MLG leg detached, you are only ever a flight away from a PR nightmare, press don't give a stuff if its freighter, no human interest, no story, put a 148 on board different ball game.
The press have already latched on to Jet2 incidents, it won't take long before the age of the airframes are in the red tops, yes BA operate some very old 400's out of LGW but they've had them and maintained them from new.
If you look at the ASL freighter (now scrapped) that shut EMA earlier in the year when the MLG leg detached, you are only ever a flight away from a PR nightmare, press don't give a stuff if its freighter, no human interest, no story, put a 148 on board different ball game.
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I don't think BA has any 747 services from Gatwick.
I would sooner fly on an old BA 747 any day rather on a fifth hand old 737-300 on Jet2. I flew from Vancouver on a BA 747 which was taken out of service the next day. I felt sorry for the old girl, she seemed pretty good to me!!!
I can understand passengers getting frightened when they don't know what is happening. It is a disgrace that the tannoy was not working or even the megaphone, it just shows what the maintenance is like.
It is the same thing at airports when there is a delay, if only people were told the truth they wouldn't get so frustrated.
I would sooner fly on an old BA 747 any day rather on a fifth hand old 737-300 on Jet2. I flew from Vancouver on a BA 747 which was taken out of service the next day. I felt sorry for the old girl, she seemed pretty good to me!!!
I can understand passengers getting frightened when they don't know what is happening. It is a disgrace that the tannoy was not working or even the megaphone, it just shows what the maintenance is like.
It is the same thing at airports when there is a delay, if only people were told the truth they wouldn't get so frustrated.
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It is a disgrace that the tannoy was not working or even the megaphone, it just shows what the maintenance is like.
The PA failing to work was NOTHING to do with maintenance, it was related to the fault that caused the smoke/fumes, as were many of the other abnormalities during the event.
The 300's have 2 megaphones, one at the front and one at the rear, they are stowed in hat racks. They are checked every day for functionality. I can only surmise that with the passengers up and about and in the way the CC at the front couldn't access theirs, and the CC at the back didn't know what was occurring as he/she sits rearward facing and has a bulk-head between her and the cabin.
I'd also like to take umbrage at
It is the same thing at airports when there is a delay, if only people were told the truth they wouldn't get so frustrated.
Little rant over, just remains to congratulate the crew for a job well done under very unusual circumstances
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Alycidon thanks for that, my mistake!
Jonny FP if the passengers haven't been told what to do you can understand why they panic.
When I'm being served my drinks on a flight and the attendants have difficulty finding change and the drinks, I sometimes wonder how they would react in an emergency. I'm sure they are fully trained and would cope well, but I just wonder.
I've had to wait for a flight at a small and horrible Greek airport. All I want is information. If the flight is delayed 5 hours I could go out and have a meal. I do not expect them to tell me that the plane is very old and they have had to take bits of another! I wouldn't want to start worrying.
I.m not a Jet2 fan, I usually chose Thomson, Ryanair or Monarch. They have newish planes, I think some of Thomson's old 737-800s were sold to Jet2. But now Monarch are leaving my local airport, I might have to use them. I even used to go on Baby!
Jonny FP if the passengers haven't been told what to do you can understand why they panic.
When I'm being served my drinks on a flight and the attendants have difficulty finding change and the drinks, I sometimes wonder how they would react in an emergency. I'm sure they are fully trained and would cope well, but I just wonder.
I've had to wait for a flight at a small and horrible Greek airport. All I want is information. If the flight is delayed 5 hours I could go out and have a meal. I do not expect them to tell me that the plane is very old and they have had to take bits of another! I wouldn't want to start worrying.
I.m not a Jet2 fan, I usually chose Thomson, Ryanair or Monarch. They have newish planes, I think some of Thomson's old 737-800s were sold to Jet2. But now Monarch are leaving my local airport, I might have to use them. I even used to go on Baby!
And sometimes the original plan for the delay changes so passengers think that they have been led along, when actually they really haven't.
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I guess the difference is CC at some of the
LCCs and Charter might only get a day or two
service training and 3-4 weeks SEP and AvMed training.
Have you seen how much stuff is crammed into those trollies. A lot of the charters carry more boxes of stuff in the hold for the return.
All airlines 'rob' parts from other aircraft to try and maintain
schedule integrity especially if you don't have a replacement part immediately to hand and say the other aircraft is on a longer turnaround
allowing more time to get the new part.
Why not just swap to the serviceable aircraft ? Could be for a variety of reasons:- different engine ratings, different config of fuel tanks (some aircraft same type have additional tanks) , different configurations ! All airlines do it and as long as done correctly, perfect safe.
Two out of the three airlines you prefer I know do it regularly - I have no personal experience of FR.
LCCs and Charter might only get a day or two
service training and 3-4 weeks SEP and AvMed training.
Have you seen how much stuff is crammed into those trollies. A lot of the charters carry more boxes of stuff in the hold for the return.
All airlines 'rob' parts from other aircraft to try and maintain
schedule integrity especially if you don't have a replacement part immediately to hand and say the other aircraft is on a longer turnaround
allowing more time to get the new part.
Why not just swap to the serviceable aircraft ? Could be for a variety of reasons:- different engine ratings, different config of fuel tanks (some aircraft same type have additional tanks) , different configurations ! All airlines do it and as long as done correctly, perfect safe.
Two out of the three airlines you prefer I know do it regularly - I have no personal experience of FR.
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Jet2 in the news again today...
Travellers abandon Jet2 flight from Malaga after passenger sparks panic by taking photos | Mail Online
Travellers abandon Jet2 flight from Malaga after passenger sparks panic by taking photos | Mail Online