Jet2 4
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UK
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mockingjay
mockingjay - you will probably find your MP not too bothered about 261 (particularly at the moment!) as it really isn't a vote winner however your MEP may be a little more interested as it stems, after all, from the EU.
The airlines (Jet2 in particular hence on this thread) have put a lot of effort into defeating UK claims via local, county, high, appeal and supreme court action however they (like many others) have put little or no effort, into tackling the law at source. Indeed if it were not for the Gibraltar EU fiasco the law would probably be made even tighter.
In 2012 my MEP knew nothing about 261 - he actually departed in the last election and I then had to 'brief' the new MEP - unfortunately whilst she has contacts on the Transportation Committee she is not on same so my route of communication is diminished.
The airlines have generally relied upon the CAA/NEB representing their wishes however as can be seen with regard to press releases over the weekend/today the CAA appear to be giving into public pressure.
The airlines (Jet2 in particular hence on this thread) have put a lot of effort into defeating UK claims via local, county, high, appeal and supreme court action however they (like many others) have put little or no effort, into tackling the law at source. Indeed if it were not for the Gibraltar EU fiasco the law would probably be made even tighter.
In 2012 my MEP knew nothing about 261 - he actually departed in the last election and I then had to 'brief' the new MEP - unfortunately whilst she has contacts on the Transportation Committee she is not on same so my route of communication is diminished.
The airlines have generally relied upon the CAA/NEB representing their wishes however as can be seen with regard to press releases over the weekend/today the CAA appear to be giving into public pressure.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: manchester
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Full year 2014 Source CAA
Comparison of the largest operators.
Top 20 by number of flights operated, Arrival OTP
BRITISH AIRWAYS 74.25
EASYJET AIRLINE 78.28
RYANAIR 78.78
FLYBE 85.37
THOMSON AIRWAYS 73.87
BA CITYFLYER LTD 88.67
MONARCH AIRLINES 78.29
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 80.21
AER LINGUS 81.33
LUFTHANSA 78.63
NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE 79.02
CITY JET 87.53
JET2.COM 74.49
THOMAS COOK AIRLINES 79.83
WIZZ AIR 86.63
LOGANAIR 82.77
SAS 80.17
SWISS AIRLINES 80.69
GERMANWINGS 79.72
KLM 86.35
Top 20 by number of flights operated, Departure OTP
BRITISH AIRWAYS 77.1
EASYJET AIRLINE 78.5
RYANAIR 79.5
FLYBE 78.7
THOMSON AIRWAYS 73.9
BA CITYFLYER 88.3
MONARCH AIRLINES 71.7
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 84.1
AER LINGUS 85.5
LUFTHANSA 81.5
NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE 80.0
JET2.COM 82.0
CITY JET 86.7
THOMAS COOK AIRLINES 74.2
WIZZ AIR 64.4
LOGANAIR 82.5
SAS 88.8
SWISS AIRLINES 79.8
GERMANWINGS 78.9
KLM 87.2
When compared to 2013 figures, Jet2 OTP has improved by 7% on arrival and 10% on departure
Comparison of the largest operators.
Top 20 by number of flights operated, Arrival OTP
BRITISH AIRWAYS 74.25
EASYJET AIRLINE 78.28
RYANAIR 78.78
FLYBE 85.37
THOMSON AIRWAYS 73.87
BA CITYFLYER LTD 88.67
MONARCH AIRLINES 78.29
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 80.21
AER LINGUS 81.33
LUFTHANSA 78.63
NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE 79.02
CITY JET 87.53
JET2.COM 74.49
THOMAS COOK AIRLINES 79.83
WIZZ AIR 86.63
LOGANAIR 82.77
SAS 80.17
SWISS AIRLINES 80.69
GERMANWINGS 79.72
KLM 86.35
Top 20 by number of flights operated, Departure OTP
BRITISH AIRWAYS 77.1
EASYJET AIRLINE 78.5
RYANAIR 79.5
FLYBE 78.7
THOMSON AIRWAYS 73.9
BA CITYFLYER 88.3
MONARCH AIRLINES 71.7
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 84.1
AER LINGUS 85.5
LUFTHANSA 81.5
NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE 80.0
JET2.COM 82.0
CITY JET 86.7
THOMAS COOK AIRLINES 74.2
WIZZ AIR 64.4
LOGANAIR 82.5
SAS 88.8
SWISS AIRLINES 79.8
GERMANWINGS 78.9
KLM 87.2
When compared to 2013 figures, Jet2 OTP has improved by 7% on arrival and 10% on departure
Last edited by handler; 23rd Mar 2015 at 13:12.
Join Date: Nov 2012
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MANFOD
It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.
Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...
Meanwhile here is the link to ACL http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File/STN_S15_SOS.pdf
Seats up c9% on last summer
It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.
Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...
Meanwhile here is the link to ACL http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File/STN_S15_SOS.pdf
Seats up c9% on last summer
Join Date: Jul 2007
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It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.
Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...
Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...
I'll post something on the MAN thread.
Given that Jet2 is run by a team of professional businessmen (lets face it these days you have to a ruthless streak to compete) I am not surprised they challenged EU261 as it appears to have more (loop)holes than the proverbial Swiss Flight Safety Cheese. That said, after the number of times it has been tested in the courts, the writing is more than on the wall and for the sake of reputation it is probably time to shut up and pay up.
As for the compensation culture - some aircrew have been getting very tendentious about 261. I can only assume that they have never claimed for a mis-sold endowment or a mis-sold PPI and would never claim from the NHS if one of their family was a victim of medical negligence. 261 was set up to protect customers from rapacious companies, I have yet to hear from anyone complaining about the savings people have made on mobile calls abroad thanks to EU mandates. Thanks to 261 we now have a better service as companies have been forced to put in mitigation plans - Jet2 being a prime example.
However, I think 261 is ripe for review. It was drafted before the locost boom and its compensation levels can be ridiculous. I think the model of the Directive on ferry delays (1177) is much better (and clearer). Compensation here is based on a percentage of the ticket price (and that % rises with the length of the delay); food, accom and comms also have to be provided. On the other hand I would like to see more protection for the customer to prevent cancellations or provide reasonable compensation when flights are cancelled due to 'operational reasons' (ie they are running at a loss). Currently an airline can hold your money for over a year and then cancel the flight with 2 weeks and a day to go and you only get your money back. In one instance a Leeds based carrier cancelled my return leg with 2 weeks and 2 days to go (so a week and 2 days before the outbound) so I had to incur a number of costs to ensure the other elements of my holiday were not lost - a highly cynical move on their part. Again the market has moved on since the early noughties as many more book elements of their independently so IMHO compensation should be mandated.
As for the compensation culture - some aircrew have been getting very tendentious about 261. I can only assume that they have never claimed for a mis-sold endowment or a mis-sold PPI and would never claim from the NHS if one of their family was a victim of medical negligence. 261 was set up to protect customers from rapacious companies, I have yet to hear from anyone complaining about the savings people have made on mobile calls abroad thanks to EU mandates. Thanks to 261 we now have a better service as companies have been forced to put in mitigation plans - Jet2 being a prime example.
However, I think 261 is ripe for review. It was drafted before the locost boom and its compensation levels can be ridiculous. I think the model of the Directive on ferry delays (1177) is much better (and clearer). Compensation here is based on a percentage of the ticket price (and that % rises with the length of the delay); food, accom and comms also have to be provided. On the other hand I would like to see more protection for the customer to prevent cancellations or provide reasonable compensation when flights are cancelled due to 'operational reasons' (ie they are running at a loss). Currently an airline can hold your money for over a year and then cancel the flight with 2 weeks and a day to go and you only get your money back. In one instance a Leeds based carrier cancelled my return leg with 2 weeks and 2 days to go (so a week and 2 days before the outbound) so I had to incur a number of costs to ensure the other elements of my holiday were not lost - a highly cynical move on their part. Again the market has moved on since the early noughties as many more book elements of their independently so IMHO compensation should be mandated.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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2 Planks-- but surely a claims based approach would be extremely bureaucratic. The circumstances of 200 people on a plane delayed by eight hours or cancelled would all be different.
I have been on trains delayed by an hour, got my fare back and felt quids in. I've been on trains delayed five hours, got my fare back and felt undercompensated. It sounds to me like a simple formula system with an element of rough justice would be more practicable. Beyond that it should be up to the individual to take out the right kind of travel insurance to cover them against risks.
I have been on trains delayed by an hour, got my fare back and felt quids in. I've been on trains delayed five hours, got my fare back and felt undercompensated. It sounds to me like a simple formula system with an element of rough justice would be more practicable. Beyond that it should be up to the individual to take out the right kind of travel insurance to cover them against risks.
Fair point, and a tad more admin perhaps - but as every claim has to be verified anyway - it would only be a couple of extra button pushes before the money is sent. If P&O can manage it with a ferry with 1200 people on (my only experience with 1177) I'm sure an airline can.
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I think the model of the Directive on ferry delays (1177) is much better (and clearer). Compensation here is based on a percentage of the ticket price (and that % rises with the length of the delay); food, accom and comms also have to be provided.
I believe it wasn't adopted for the delay / cancellation conditions because it would tempt airlines into favouring one group of passengers over another ( e.g. if the business-class-fares London City flight went tech, dump the tourists off the cheap-fares Ibiza aircraft and use it instead. ).
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NO apology needed CT, you invest in the company that provides my livelihood. Things aren't perfect but then I don't think there are any jobs available at Utopia Airlines; the most important thing is that we generally look after our customers despite what some may say with regards to the very badly written piece of EU legislation that is EU 261.
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It is true that the Jet2holidays livery is unpopular with many "purists" (myself included), however, like it or not, Jet2holidays PAX are now the bread and butter of the airline and it is totally understandable that the company want to push that side of the business.
Even I have to admit that when you see several EXS aircraft lined up side by side on remote stands in Jet2holidays livery they do stand out, making a great advert for "Holidays" and with much more impact than they would for Jet2.com in red and silver!
Even I have to admit that when you see several EXS aircraft lined up side by side on remote stands in Jet2holidays livery they do stand out, making a great advert for "Holidays" and with much more impact than they would for Jet2.com in red and silver!
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I agree also that when lined up on remote stands, the LSholidays livery is very effective, especially given that a large chunk of the business is now based around that area. Still, its nice to see that they are still painting them in the original red/silver livery. 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Jet2 now appear to be following the Thomson business plan. That is using their own flights, primarily, to fill their`s and other operators package holidays.The seat onlys that are left, are sold at rather higher prices, albeit not as eyewatering as Thomsons.But if it works and keeps many people in jobs then fine.