Scilly Isles Route
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Who manufactures DHC7 aircraft in this day and age, where is the additional ISC fire cover to come from and, were a runway extension feasible, who's going to finance it ... ISC can make comparisons to Scotland blah blah blah but in Scotland they're still operating Twotters on a sand beach but only when the tide is out.
The Scillonian (vomit comet) ferry is past it's sell by date, the Twotters are getting towards their sell by dates, PZE heliport is closing and the choppers will struggle to compete vs fixed wing on a NQY/ISC/NQY route, they might only survive on a Tresco route where no fixed wing can compete ..... So why not do away with this mixed bag of geriatric equipment and invest in some modern aircraft, namely hovercraft, equipment?
The Scillonian (vomit comet) ferry is past it's sell by date, the Twotters are getting towards their sell by dates, PZE heliport is closing and the choppers will struggle to compete vs fixed wing on a NQY/ISC/NQY route, they might only survive on a Tresco route where no fixed wing can compete ..... So why not do away with this mixed bag of geriatric equipment and invest in some modern aircraft, namely hovercraft, equipment?
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Sadly Phileas whilst a hovercraft is a sound idea, having sailed these waters many many times the service would be very unreliable as the sea around IoS is notoriously rough. It stops the Scillonian in the Winter so a hovercraft has little to no chance.
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Who manufactures DHC7 aircraft in this day and age
Viking Acquires Type Certificates for de Havilland Canada Heritage Aircraft from Bombardier
The Scottish independence lobby has managed to make enough noise that Westminster feels obliged to give increased resource to Soctland. Where's the lobby group for an independent Cornwall when you need them ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 13th Jun 2012 at 10:41.
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bearface,
The waters around the Scillies are so shallow the Scillonian ius flat bottomed which causes passengers to vomit ... regularly ... and having, this morning, taken a wooden outrigger between Dapa and Surigao with the waves coming over the top of us ... I have every sympathy.
For fear of commercially advertising one can check out the specs, including craft sizes and acceptable wave heights, by visiting such a site as Products - Griffon Hoverwork
As for DHC7's, these remain out of production for some 25 years past, there are none on the British register and were a solitary DHC7 to appear on the British register then it might work an ISC route for perhaps 2 days per week during each summer and sit on it's bum each winter whilst other operators struggle to make a once a day Twotter or Chopper pay for itself ... and as for any DHC7 spares back-up ... well go figure.
The waters around the Scillies are so shallow the Scillonian ius flat bottomed which causes passengers to vomit ... regularly ... and having, this morning, taken a wooden outrigger between Dapa and Surigao with the waves coming over the top of us ... I have every sympathy.
For fear of commercially advertising one can check out the specs, including craft sizes and acceptable wave heights, by visiting such a site as Products - Griffon Hoverwork
As for DHC7's, these remain out of production for some 25 years past, there are none on the British register and were a solitary DHC7 to appear on the British register then it might work an ISC route for perhaps 2 days per week during each summer and sit on it's bum each winter whilst other operators struggle to make a once a day Twotter or Chopper pay for itself ... and as for any DHC7 spares back-up ... well go figure.
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A bit off-topic but is the heliport at PNZ really being sold to Sainsbury's?There's already a Tesco's and a Morrisons within a couple of hundred metres to the east and west.
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The planners are stupid
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Quote: "Don't blame the planners, they are merely trying to balance the demands of those who want to build (supermarkets, airports and so on) against those who don't (the usual nimby types, greenies and so on). "
It's not always the case that planning departments are in the pockets of developers. Equally it's not always the case that planning departments are influenced by the so-called "tree huggers".
There are often occasions where councillors reject large planning applications, but the applicants appeal to the planning inspectorate in Bristol (central government).
Developers often employ the kind of expensive lawyers that district councils cannot match because they are constrained by limited resources (ratepayers money).
Consequently, planning departments rejections are overturned and the result is large supermarkets within 100 yards of eachother, clone towns, and dying high streets and town centres.
It's not always the case that planning departments are in the pockets of developers. Equally it's not always the case that planning departments are influenced by the so-called "tree huggers".
There are often occasions where councillors reject large planning applications, but the applicants appeal to the planning inspectorate in Bristol (central government).
Developers often employ the kind of expensive lawyers that district councils cannot match because they are constrained by limited resources (ratepayers money).
Consequently, planning departments rejections are overturned and the result is large supermarkets within 100 yards of eachother, clone towns, and dying high streets and town centres.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 13th Jun 2012 at 21:38.
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Phileas Fogg Having been on the Scillonian, I am well aware of its deficiencies!
Returning to your earlier post:
Quote:
The Scillonian (vomit comet) ferry is past it's sell by date, the Twotters are getting towards their sell by dates, PZE heliport is closing and the choppers will struggle to compete vs fixed wing on a NQY/ISC/NQY route, they might only survive on a Tresco route where no fixed wing can compete ..... So why not do away with this mixed bag of geriatric equipment and invest in some modern aircraft, namely hovercraft, equipment?
Am I reading it correctly that you think a solution is to run passenger hovercraft from Penzance to the Scillies?
Forgive me, but I find this notion genuinely amusing. The old birds on the Dover Calais route were as susceptible as anything to the weather before they were deemed commercially unviable. How would one operate said hovercraft in a Force 9 gale and a 20 foot swell with 4 meter waves?
This is the Atlantic we are talking about here, not the Serpentine.
Returning to your earlier post:
Quote:
The Scillonian (vomit comet) ferry is past it's sell by date, the Twotters are getting towards their sell by dates, PZE heliport is closing and the choppers will struggle to compete vs fixed wing on a NQY/ISC/NQY route, they might only survive on a Tresco route where no fixed wing can compete ..... So why not do away with this mixed bag of geriatric equipment and invest in some modern aircraft, namely hovercraft, equipment?
Am I reading it correctly that you think a solution is to run passenger hovercraft from Penzance to the Scillies?
Forgive me, but I find this notion genuinely amusing. The old birds on the Dover Calais route were as susceptible as anything to the weather before they were deemed commercially unviable. How would one operate said hovercraft in a Force 9 gale and a 20 foot swell with 4 meter waves?
This is the Atlantic we are talking about here, not the Serpentine.
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Bearface,
Yet but the hovercrafts on the cross channel service stayed in service until they were airframe time expired, as I'd be crossing on SeaFrance I'd watch them whizzing past on many an occasion!
So sea crossings to/from Scillies are far from ideal ... the future is fixed wing air travel where, during inclement (fog) conditions, the island airport may remain below operating minima for days at a time, the sun will be merrily shining above but because there is so little land to the islands there is indeed insufficient land for the sun to warm needed to lift the fog.
Someone asked the question a while back, is there an aircraft capable of shifting 20+ punters in/out of St. Mary's and, should the chopper service withdraw, what about the future of air services to Tresco ... Well tell me that hovercraft couldn't fulfill both of these.
Yet but the hovercrafts on the cross channel service stayed in service until they were airframe time expired, as I'd be crossing on SeaFrance I'd watch them whizzing past on many an occasion!
So sea crossings to/from Scillies are far from ideal ... the future is fixed wing air travel where, during inclement (fog) conditions, the island airport may remain below operating minima for days at a time, the sun will be merrily shining above but because there is so little land to the islands there is indeed insufficient land for the sun to warm needed to lift the fog.
Someone asked the question a while back, is there an aircraft capable of shifting 20+ punters in/out of St. Mary's and, should the chopper service withdraw, what about the future of air services to Tresco ... Well tell me that hovercraft couldn't fulfill both of these.
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Phileas
You are going to have to be careful on that gorgeous tropical island your on, I think you should put a hat on when sitting in the sun.
As a qualified yachtmaster who has sailed these waters and the channel I promise you that there is no comparison, a hovercraft is a not going to work down here. I have been talking to a Canadian hovercraft manufacturer about the feasibility of using one in coastal waters around the Fal Estuary and even that is a challenge. Get a good easterly blowing and even the inshore ferries stop operating.
Enjoy your day and have another cold beer whilst I sit in the rain
You are going to have to be careful on that gorgeous tropical island your on, I think you should put a hat on when sitting in the sun.
As a qualified yachtmaster who has sailed these waters and the channel I promise you that there is no comparison, a hovercraft is a not going to work down here. I have been talking to a Canadian hovercraft manufacturer about the feasibility of using one in coastal waters around the Fal Estuary and even that is a challenge. Get a good easterly blowing and even the inshore ferries stop operating.
Enjoy your day and have another cold beer whilst I sit in the rain
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Phileas
I admire your creative sourcing of options, I really do.
Sea crossings are not ideal, neither is fixed wing flight when subject to such variable weather conditions. I don't think there is a simple solution but the fact remains that a hovercraft is a machine that requires fairly good sea conditions for it to be effective and commercially viable. This is the Atlantic we are talking about.
I'd love to jump on a Mark III SR.N4 next time I'm visiting the folks down in Cornwall. If it does happen, I'm not sure if I'll be plain shocked or rolling around on the floor laughing so I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
However, the mere notion of hovercrafts operating such a route has added an element of hilarity to my dreary world, so on a personal level, thank you for that!
I admire your creative sourcing of options, I really do.
Sea crossings are not ideal, neither is fixed wing flight when subject to such variable weather conditions. I don't think there is a simple solution but the fact remains that a hovercraft is a machine that requires fairly good sea conditions for it to be effective and commercially viable. This is the Atlantic we are talking about.
I'd love to jump on a Mark III SR.N4 next time I'm visiting the folks down in Cornwall. If it does happen, I'm not sure if I'll be plain shocked or rolling around on the floor laughing so I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
However, the mere notion of hovercrafts operating such a route has added an element of hilarity to my dreary world, so on a personal level, thank you for that!
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Greetings GROUNDHOG ... and Bearface also,
This conversation came up at the suggestion of a runway extention and DHC7 operations in/out of ISC ...
Let's agree that it's best that we all go off and get drunk and pretend we never heard such a ridiculous suggestion.
This conversation came up at the suggestion of a runway extention and DHC7 operations in/out of ISC ...
Let's agree that it's best that we all go off and get drunk and pretend we never heard such a ridiculous suggestion.
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Extending the main runway and asphalt'ing the shorter runway (currently half grass, half concrete) are currently being looked into by the Isles Of Scilly Council using European Funding....
Last edited by PlymouthPixie; 18th Jun 2012 at 18:22.
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Yes,
But not even Brymon considered scheduled DHC7's on ISC routes, to round up groups of Y50's to head, point to point, to/from the guest houses of the Scillies would be nigh on impossible and, if at all possible, only on Saturdays (weather permitting) taking in to consideration that ISC is closed on Sundays.
Brymon only ever looked at the possibility of DHC7's in/out of ISC after a Saturday of fog when ISC would temporarily open on the Sunday to get as many punters in in as short a time as possible.
But not even Brymon considered scheduled DHC7's on ISC routes, to round up groups of Y50's to head, point to point, to/from the guest houses of the Scillies would be nigh on impossible and, if at all possible, only on Saturdays (weather permitting) taking in to consideration that ISC is closed on Sundays.
Brymon only ever looked at the possibility of DHC7's in/out of ISC after a Saturday of fog when ISC would temporarily open on the Sunday to get as many punters in in as short a time as possible.
I seem to recall that Brymon did a proving flight with the Dash 7 into ISC when they were phasing out the Twin Otters (ha - G-BIHO still going with Skybus!) and the proving flight was sufficiently "interesting" to see the whole project abandoned. I can't think that, with all of the changes to EU-Ops and performance criteria which have taken place between then and now, the situation will have improved in any way.
And in any event, planning the future for the next 20-30 years around an aircraft type which is already obsolete is not a particularly good idea. Best bet is to get the runway to a slightly improved standard to be able to support operations such as a Dornier 228 and accept that any larger aircraft will mandate increases in fire cover, ATC, introduction of EC300-compliant security screening for pax and all sorts of other expensive infrastructure that the passenger throughput simply isn't high enough to generate revenue to pay for.
And in any event, planning the future for the next 20-30 years around an aircraft type which is already obsolete is not a particularly good idea. Best bet is to get the runway to a slightly improved standard to be able to support operations such as a Dornier 228 and accept that any larger aircraft will mandate increases in fire cover, ATC, introduction of EC300-compliant security screening for pax and all sorts of other expensive infrastructure that the passenger throughput simply isn't high enough to generate revenue to pay for.