BIRMINGHAM - 5
Planeaddict
Look back through this thread and see the passenger numbers and load factors posted by OltonPete on a monthly basis for your answer.
Of course Emirates could offer a third daily services, but what's in it for them? On the face of it, nothing other than dilution of the passengers they are currently carrying across 3 flights instead of 2.
Even Emirates are in it for profit!
Look back through this thread and see the passenger numbers and load factors posted by OltonPete on a monthly basis for your answer.
Of course Emirates could offer a third daily services, but what's in it for them? On the face of it, nothing other than dilution of the passengers they are currently carrying across 3 flights instead of 2.
Even Emirates are in it for profit!
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RE: PK
Here's a thought for the group:
Lately it seems that everytime we see PK on the news or making comments to the media, he always says about flights to the west coast of USA & China etc.
Could it be that maybe he knows something we dont?
Could it be that he has agreements in place with various operators, but for various reasons he cant announce it officially?
My opinion is that we are too close to Manchester & the London airports for any operator to operate the routes profitably. As somebody commented earlier about concreating most of Solihull, I doubt we will get the routes PK wants. Hopefully I am proven wrong!
Best Wishes
Adam
Here's a thought for the group:
Lately it seems that everytime we see PK on the news or making comments to the media, he always says about flights to the west coast of USA & China etc.
Could it be that maybe he knows something we dont?
Could it be that he has agreements in place with various operators, but for various reasons he cant announce it officially?
My opinion is that we are too close to Manchester & the London airports for any operator to operate the routes profitably. As somebody commented earlier about concreating most of Solihull, I doubt we will get the routes PK wants. Hopefully I am proven wrong!
Best Wishes
Adam
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Adam G1.
Re PK.
I don't think he has any agreements yet with airlines ,however they are constantly talking to airlines, and a number of the larger ones have expressed an interest in BHX.
If you don't have the runway length at BHX then you definately won't attract the long haul carriers talked of.
I know there are a number of doomers and gloomers who seem desperate for BHX runway extension to fail. Perhaps it won't deliver, but at least we have a chance now.
Nigel
Re PK.
I don't think he has any agreements yet with airlines ,however they are constantly talking to airlines, and a number of the larger ones have expressed an interest in BHX.
If you don't have the runway length at BHX then you definately won't attract the long haul carriers talked of.
I know there are a number of doomers and gloomers who seem desperate for BHX runway extension to fail. Perhaps it won't deliver, but at least we have a chance now.
Nigel
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I know there are a number of doomers and gloomers who seem desperate for BHX runway extension to fail.
Where people sometimes get tarred with the doom and gloom brush is when they question the necessity of the project or ask how the cost is justified.
It could very easily be argued that, even with the current runway, BHX is failing to attract airlines on to routes which could be easily served by the existing runway length.
A very valid and up to date example would be Toronto and Canada generally. An A310 can operate to YYZ out of BHX with no payload restrictions. An A332 could operate to most of Canada out of BHX with no payload restrictions.
Yet Birmingham has just one weekly, seasonal Air Transat A310 to YYZ.
It cannot be blamed on the economic climate when Transat have just this week increased their MAN-YYZ schedule next summer from already a daily service to 8 flights per week with a combination of A310 and A332. Equally, Gatwick is served next summer 10 x weekly to YYZ alone.
You think a few extra metres of concrete is going to have Transat knocking on PK's door to go daily from summer '14? Of course not.
I'll say it again; you can concrete the whole of Solihull, but if airlines can cover the catchment area successfully with operations to the north and south of BHX, without the additional costs associated with another base at BHX, it's going to be a very uphill struggle to justify the extension, not least also with TK and EK becoming well established at BHX for all points east.
My tuppence worth
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I'm guessing it's all down to the passengers i know for sure say JUST FOR EXAMPLE if ANA started a flight to Japan say £700 rtn and TK done the same for £600 via Istanbul i would pay the extra £100 for the direct flight and same goes with Heathrow if they did the same flight £200 cheaper i would rather pay more to fly from BHX then travel all the way down to London by car or train and have all the hassel of getting to Heathrow from Euston or paying parking and dealing with all the queues at security.
And before anyone says "thats your opinion" yes i know but i'm sure i'm not the only who would do that.
(All prices and airlines were examples and not to be taken to heart lol)
And before anyone says "thats your opinion" yes i know but i'm sure i'm not the only who would do that.
(All prices and airlines were examples and not to be taken to heart lol)
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don't see why EK couldn't start a third daily service with an A330, or even an A340 (seeing as Glasgow could manage it and it took them at least 7 years to get a second daily flight),
If this turns out to materialise, I can only presume it is because QR have seen EK's falling loads whilst TK has gone through the roof; is there room for the three of them at BHX which, in itself, continues to be squeezed by MAN and LHR, not forgetting that LHR will be QR's flagship 787 route for the forseeable...
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What would happen if EK just went ahead and started a third daily flight based on the passenger numbers? Or maybe they'll go ahead with it once the Qatar service is confirmed?
Whenever I see these diversions over fog, snow etc, I always seem to imagine that the 80s stands are turned into a pier, and an airbridge connecting it to the terminal. If you see what I'm getting at, maybe make the concept 'come to life' (Google Sketchup would be a good one, someone who has much more knowledge of the airport and is a better sketcher than me
)
I still think Shaheen Air or Airblue are a possiblity. I have contacted both via Facebook and the response from both was quite simple, "We'll keep you updated for any official announcements". I presume that both airlines are talking to BHX, but what they could provide is a non-stop service to Karachi or Lahore which we haven't had in, what, 10 years (when PIA used to use BHX for their transatlantic flights)? If a 772 can make it from Delhi, then an A332 should be a decent option (even without the need of a runway extension). If anyone hears anything let us know
Another thing I'd like to point out is the need for an indoor viewing area. I think many would definitely push for a replacement for the Aviation Experience (which was sadly closed just under 2 years ago), anyone heard anything?
Whenever I see these diversions over fog, snow etc, I always seem to imagine that the 80s stands are turned into a pier, and an airbridge connecting it to the terminal. If you see what I'm getting at, maybe make the concept 'come to life' (Google Sketchup would be a good one, someone who has much more knowledge of the airport and is a better sketcher than me
)I still think Shaheen Air or Airblue are a possiblity. I have contacted both via Facebook and the response from both was quite simple, "We'll keep you updated for any official announcements". I presume that both airlines are talking to BHX, but what they could provide is a non-stop service to Karachi or Lahore which we haven't had in, what, 10 years (when PIA used to use BHX for their transatlantic flights)? If a 772 can make it from Delhi, then an A332 should be a decent option (even without the need of a runway extension). If anyone hears anything let us know
Another thing I'd like to point out is the need for an indoor viewing area. I think many would definitely push for a replacement for the Aviation Experience (which was sadly closed just under 2 years ago), anyone heard anything?
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EK/QR/Pakistan
Planeaddict
ATNotts explained it earlier based on regular load factors of 76-85% they would just spread the passengers out over three flights. The third flight would leave about 9-10am to connect with EK's third biggest departure bank at Dubai. This is mainly routes to Indian and Pakistan so there is a chance that they might pinch some of PIA pax and give that service a problem.
Also if priced right they might re-take some passengers from Turkish but that is hardly an ideal situation. If EK opened up Dubai - Amritsar then that would give the third service a boost but that is affected by UAE-Indo bilaterals I believe before you even consider whether an Amritsar service would be sustainable from Dubai. It is one of the few routes that is not rumoured much although I am sure eventually they will get round to looking at it.
As for Lahore, if my memory serves me right I don't think passenger figures anywhere other than Islamabad from BHX have set the world alight in the past.
Ringwayman - Did they have much choice with Glasgow? The one flight was packed out but doubling capacity would have been a risk so they put one their smallest aircraft in terms of seats on the second flight, although this is to be increased soon as they slowly withdraw the 343 from the fleet. Glasgow's load factors with the A343 have only been in the mid 70's so a 428 seat aircraft I would have thought would have been a disaster. Saying that I believe you can purchase first class on the Glasgow service, which was not an option on BHX when the three class 77W's operated on the evening service.
Are you sure about the dilution statement - I know in October the net figures from all those services were up (QR were the only ones down) but the load factors of the ME carriers were only mid to late 70's, surely yields have been diluted with all the empty seats or have they managed to maintain average fares?
Transat - major disappointment
AdamG1
West Coast of America - short-term no chance, medium-term - no chance, long-term - little chance. The only reason I say little is the EK factor, in order words things change and 15 years ago suggesting twice daily EK would have got you a visit from the men in white coats
Pete
ATNotts explained it earlier based on regular load factors of 76-85% they would just spread the passengers out over three flights. The third flight would leave about 9-10am to connect with EK's third biggest departure bank at Dubai. This is mainly routes to Indian and Pakistan so there is a chance that they might pinch some of PIA pax and give that service a problem.
Also if priced right they might re-take some passengers from Turkish but that is hardly an ideal situation. If EK opened up Dubai - Amritsar then that would give the third service a boost but that is affected by UAE-Indo bilaterals I believe before you even consider whether an Amritsar service would be sustainable from Dubai. It is one of the few routes that is not rumoured much although I am sure eventually they will get round to looking at it.
As for Lahore, if my memory serves me right I don't think passenger figures anywhere other than Islamabad from BHX have set the world alight in the past.
Ringwayman - Did they have much choice with Glasgow? The one flight was packed out but doubling capacity would have been a risk so they put one their smallest aircraft in terms of seats on the second flight, although this is to be increased soon as they slowly withdraw the 343 from the fleet. Glasgow's load factors with the A343 have only been in the mid 70's so a 428 seat aircraft I would have thought would have been a disaster. Saying that I believe you can purchase first class on the Glasgow service, which was not an option on BHX when the three class 77W's operated on the evening service.
Are you sure about the dilution statement - I know in October the net figures from all those services were up (QR were the only ones down) but the load factors of the ME carriers were only mid to late 70's, surely yields have been diluted with all the empty seats or have they managed to maintain average fares?
Transat - major disappointment
AdamG1
West Coast of America - short-term no chance, medium-term - no chance, long-term - little chance. The only reason I say little is the EK factor, in order words things change and 15 years ago suggesting twice daily EK would have got you a visit from the men in white coats
Pete
!
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The runway extension is not needed.
I suspect like a lot of businesses, it won't do any harm to add it AND it ticks the box of BEING SEEN to be DOING SOMETHING/ANYTHING in a difficult trading environment. The business case is tenuous, the number of likely flights who would ever need it seems remote.
I suspect like a lot of businesses, it won't do any harm to add it AND it ticks the box of BEING SEEN to be DOING SOMETHING/ANYTHING in a difficult trading environment. The business case is tenuous, the number of likely flights who would ever need it seems remote.
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D0iagree, the more runway you have the better off you are! Flexibility is the key. It should have been done 10 years ago.
Let me start : Not QATAR, not Etihad.
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Quote: “I still think Shaheen Air or Airblue are a possiblity. I have contacted both via Facebook and the response from both was quite simple, "We'll keep you updated for any official announcements". I presume that both airlines are talking to BHX, but what they could provide is a non-stop service to Karachi or Lahore which we haven't had in, what, 10 years (when PIA used to use BHX for their transatlantic flights)? If a 772 can make it from Delhi, then an A332 should be a decent option (even without the need of a runway extension). If anyone hears anything let us know”
Expect that these routes would be mostly VFR business looking for low fares, not many first and business class pax. Maybe in the present conditions these routes are not sustainable, especially as EKand TK could have much of this business sown up.
Expect that these routes would be mostly VFR business looking for low fares, not many first and business class pax. Maybe in the present conditions these routes are not sustainable, especially as EKand TK could have much of this business sown up.
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Name three likely routes and aircraft types that would actually *need* it and are currently mot serving the market having so much as mentioned runway length.
Let me start : Not QATAR, not Etihad.
Let me start : Not QATAR, not Etihad.
That's all I could come up with.
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I definitely think they would need to expand the terminal a bit. A new pier would come into use when the runway extension is done so I'd reckon they start on it soon.
Since 'Airtrans Limited' ceased traiding over the Aviation Experience, is there any other company which could do so?
Since 'Airtrans Limited' ceased traiding over the Aviation Experience, is there any other company which could do so?