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Old 3rd Jan 2012, 10:41
  #441 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: solihull West Midlands
Posts: 967
Thanks Andy,worcbert,

So economy passengers are being ripped off.. if they want more leg room and offer to pay more..when they have a reasonable chance anyway of a free upgrade if they do not pay any more ..crikey what a murky business it is !

Will remember that one in the future..

nigel osborne is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2012, 10:54
  #442 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 476
Not really being ripped off... Every single one of the 108 normal leg room seats has to be allocated to someone before anyone [except United frequent flyer program members] gets the extra leg room for free. And almost invariably if the flight is NOT full, what happens is that 108 passengers who haven't paid for extra leg-room are crammed in the back, whilst those who have paid/qualified for extra leg-room not only get the extra leg-room but also get the empty seats next to / between them. It often makes for a significantly more comfortable flight than being in the normal leg-room seats. Despite there being no cabin divider inbetween normal economy and "economy plus", in order to protect the benefit for those who have paid for "economy plus", United flight attendants are getting pretty good stopping passengers who haven't paid the add-on from creeping forward into extra leg-room seats after the doors are closed.

Its the same on most other airlines actually - in the end, if no one pays for extra leg-room (easyJet, bmiBaby, British Airways) those seats will still be sold as normal seats and someone might get lucky and get the extra room for free when they check-in... Passengers who want extra leg-room are paying for a guarantee they'll get it, rather than taking what on many occasions would be a rather significant risk of ending up with a normal seat.

EastMids is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2012, 01:29
  #443 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: BHX
Posts: 418
Mint Airways

The Mint a/c is based at BHX for ad-hoc flights, much the same as the Air Finland a/c have been for the last 2 summer seasons. Not sure how much work they expect to pick up though
groundhogbhx is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2012, 20:00
  #444 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Coventry
Posts: 44

2012 seems to be a positive one for Birmingham from the current looks of things

-BmiBaby re-introducing Barcelona, Lisbon and Rome
-Aer Arann bringing back Waterford
-Monarch Introducing 5 new routes of Dubrovnik, Heraklion, Milan-Malpensa, Venice and Rome even though 4 of them are not new to the airport.
-Lufthansa bringing Berlin Connection increasing there presence at Birmingham
-Turkish Rumoured to be increasing Istanbul to a Daily service
-Increase in Business traffic with the completion of the Eurojet facility

Also the start of constructing the long awaited Runway extension

Lets hope the trend has changed for Birmingham and we start to grow again
Jonnyf is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2012, 20:23
  #445 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
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Has RE definately confirmed that about WAT route? Theres nothing on their website as yet.
mart901 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2012, 20:48
  #446 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: solihull West Midlands
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Agree there are some positives this year especially the start of the runway project.

However I think the increase in APD this year,recession and now expected 10% increases in airfares due to the new Carbon Trading inclusion of aviation..will be a very tough year for BHX

nigel osborne is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2012, 21:08
  #447 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Coventry
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Birmingham Airport boss Paul Kehoe revealed airlines and holiday companies are expected offer cut-price deals during the Olympics, with deals are to be announced over the coming weeks. He said: ‘Not everyone will want to stay in Britain but there will be planes coming in full and leaving nearly empty while the Olympics are on. So we expect to see some good deals being offered by airlines.’

Mr Kehoe also said that he wants to see more investment in Birmingham to allow for more flights, adding: ‘The Government needs to recognise the value of regional airports.'

Hopefully this will reduce the damage of APD by a certain percentage and heard Waterford from another forum
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 00:44
  #448 (permalink)  
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RE Waterford

I can confirm 100% Aer Arann will not be operating Waterford to Birmingham next summer
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 08:06
  #449 (permalink)  
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Also the start of constructing the long awaited Runway extension
I'm guessing the entension is the 15 end and how much extra are they getting?
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 09:50
  #450 (permalink)  
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400m. 33 end.
Occams Razor is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2012, 09:55
  #451 (permalink)  
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Will that have any effect on the A45?

I remember many years ago there was talk about a "bridge" over the road.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 12:02
  #452 (permalink)  
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Runway extension

The A45 will be diverted around the extension to the runway, they were going to tunnel the road under the runway but this was found to be too expensive

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Old 5th Jan 2012, 12:28
  #453 (permalink)  
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Thanks Revo, was beginning to think I'd ever see the extension in my lifetime!
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 16:44
  #454 (permalink)  
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Re runway extension.

Re runway extension;

It has now been reduced to 350 metres from the original 400m and the road diverted a bit more to put enough spacing between the end of the extension and the diverted road .

A bridge will therefore not be needed, although the RESA ( Runway end safety area) goes from the intended "recommended" to lesser "statutory" distance but enough space between to comply with CAA regs.

The 4 construction companies putting in tenders were confirmed today and one will be selected and announced in February.

Start date for diverting the A45 will be July 2012, start date for runway extension June 2013 completion 2014.

nigel osborne is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2012, 17:29
  #455 (permalink)  
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I understood that there had been a reduction in the proposed increase in runway length just after planning permission had been given to save money. Is the 400m to 350m a further reduction?
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 22:10
  #456 (permalink)  
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The decision was taken in 2010 after in became apparent that BHX couldn't afford the bridge.. fortunately they had written into the application this possible amendment.

It is that amendment that takes 50m off the original length.

However don't know if the 150m starter strip proposed (separate to the counted runway length) still goes ahead or whether that has also been removed..cannot find the new new plans anywhere.

nigel osborne is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2012, 15:51
  #457 (permalink)  
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Being totally cynical, I would take a look at MAN's route map, and ask which lh destinations they serve, but BHX doesn't due to its shorter runway, and then ask how many of those would really be likely to start up at BHX. Presumably, the airport pays for the road diversion, but not the extra fuel used due to cars taking a longer route to get past the airport?

Now that might be taking my cynicism a little bit far, but the airport wants to place itself as a reliever airport for London, and it does at least have a much better proposition than MSE (RIP EDI link).

So looking at the current state of the market in Jan 12, come (summer I hope) 2014, how many routes are we going to get?

I can imagine a few extra leisure routes to the Caribbean, mabe Goa, MBA etc - although how good for the beancounters are these compared to scheduled?

ORD has been discussed as a strong prospect for return, was this not the one route that was withdrawn because of capacity issues - AA 767?

ATL came and went very quickly at EDI - now DL are at LHR rather than LGW, would they look at BHX?

PHL came and went - more about demand & marketing than the runway, was it not (B757?).

Why did AI pull out? BOM & DEL are two markets with silly competition into LHR, but no regionals, not even MAN, that makes no apparent sense.

EY must have been discussed, but if EK can offer 3x daily to DXB, how will the runway xn make much difference?

I note the huge expansion of routes from SE Asia into LGW, but nothing for MAN. Even SQs MAN-SIN is via MUC - maybe that is still attractive from MAN, but why would you take such a routing from BHX when you can go nonstop from LHR with SQ or BA / QF?
jabird is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2012, 16:24
  #458 (permalink)  
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Location: Manchester, England
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Runway End Safety Area

I too have not seen recent plans for the proposed extension. However, with regard to Runway End Safety Area (RESA), UK airports will from the end of 2013 come under the new European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certification rather than the current CAA Aerodrome Licence (based on CAP 168). EASA places a requirement for 240 metre RESA on such a runway, although there are mechanisms to allow a lesser distance subject to satisfactory safety assessment. Such allowances would normally apply to a legacy scenario, but I think it may be difficult to justify constructing a new extension and not meeting the latest standards. In 2009 MAN met the 240m ICAO 'recommended practice' by reducing the declared distances on 05L-23R, although the pavement length remains the same. It will be interesting to see the detailed plans for BHX, and how the declared distances are made up. A starter extension can be a good way to get additional TORA in the favoured direction, but with a lesser runway strip requirement.
roverman is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2012, 17:05
  #459 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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A very well reasoned posting. The country is littered with airports for which "length is everything". I doubt that either Cardiff or EMA has paid for their respective extensions with the volume of business that is actually needed topay for them, though in fairness EMA has probably got closer than Cardiff. I doubt if Manchester can really have recouped the cost of their second runway yet. of course there will be creative accountants who will claim otherwise.

I think if there is business to be gained at BHX, it may be in the area of IT charters to more distant destinations, and the effective use of payload opportunities on 77Ws and A380 by the likes of Emirates.

The future is the Far East, even though many on these forums have their eyes fixated on the transatlantic market, and perhaps, just perhaps, the current inward investment from China into the midlands may convince once of the Chinese carriers to take a punt on BHX with the longer runway in place. We can but hope.

Regular long haul cargo, I feel is a dead duck from BHX as EMA with their far superior facilities has this market all but sewn up.

Last edited by ATNotts; 6th Jan 2012 at 17:07. Reason: To produce readable english!
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 18:48
  #460 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Under the flight path
Posts: 2,210
Surely it would have been less expensive to build a bridge to carry the A45 over the runway?

Last edited by LGS6753; 6th Jan 2012 at 19:27. Reason: Edited to add emoticon
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