Aer Lingus - 6

[Skipness One Echo]

The same could be said of SABENA and MALEV in terms of state funding, look what happened there. The main issue of contention is one of medium term strategy outwith any alliance. That may or may not be risky, my feeling is the current strategy has brought them as far as it can.

Even Ryanair changed direction!

[Angry Rebel]

@Sober Lark - I would argue that previous capital injections weren't made for return, they were a cost of maintaining our connectivity before Ryanair became what it is now. In addition, given the state of the business pre the restructuring of the last 10 years, those investments were akin to a handout to staff on outrageous T&Cs and served a useful electioneering purpose.

[El Bunto]

The main issue of contention is one of medium term strategy outwith any alliance. That may or may not be risky, my feeling is the current strategy has brought them as far as it can.

Perhaps that is as far as they wish to go?

If Aer Lingus can finance the A350s and a presumed A32xNEO order then by the early 2020s they'll be set for another 20 years of operation; there won't be any breakthroughs in aircraft efficiency until the big two have amortized their current projects.

So if they're competitive on a direct operating basis with the rest of the industry, the current mix of long and short haul would seem to be sustainable for the future.

[Tooloose]

Sober Lark,


Thanks for the reply. No need to calculate the value in today's terms. It would be good for us know how much it was at the time please.

[EI-A330-300]

Ryanair asks CMA to reconsider Aer Lingus decision - RTÉ News

[Faire d'income]

Racedo

The substantive issue of the CMA finding was that the FR holding could substantially reduce competition. They had the authority to investigate and they ordered the selling down to 5%. You will appeal and appeal and, like a 2 year old, push everyone to the limit of their reason trying to get your way, but you will only succeed in annoying more and more people. Please keep up the good work in that regard.

There has been no offer, as you said, so your extremely minor argument about blocking a possible takeover isn't even a valid point yet. And the funny thing is, it will only be a valid argument if FR agree to sell.

If there is no offer there is no point.
If there is an offer and FR don't sell, it actually reinforces the CMA finding.

So as I see it, either way FR has to sell.

[Sober Lark]

State aid of an injection of IR175,000,000 over a three year period in 1993 (losses up to Mar 1993 IR116m) for restructuring purposes only and not to acquire shareholdings in any community carrier. The Government wanted to secure Aer Lingus, secure the staff, secure the jobs and help develop long haul routes (Thailand, Singapore and Bahrain were mentioned). TEAM with their dodgy invoices were also in the mix.

[racedo]

The substantive issue of the CMA finding was that the FR holding could substantially reduce competition. They had the authority to investigate and they ordered the selling down to 5%. You will appeal and appeal and, like a 2 year old, push everyone to the limit of their reason trying to get your way, but you will only succeed in annoying more and more people. Please keep up the good work in that regard.

There has been no offer, as you said, so your extremely minor argument about blocking a possible takeover isn't even a valid point yet. And the funny thing is, it will only be a valid argument if FR agree to sell.

If there is no offer there is no point.
If there is an offer and FR don't sell, it actually reinforces the CMA finding.

So as I see it, either way FR has to sell.

First off all you saying Govt can intervene because on LSE, then not........ do please make up mind

Now stating thats its because IT COULD......... but no evidence yet of it happening rather Ryanair supporting EI when its Employeesgo on strike, no doubt your reasons will changeable for some other reason soon.

There is no offer to shareholders so therefore Ryanair not able to accept or reject any offer, exactly the same situation as every single shareholder.

[Faire d'income]

First off all you saying Govt can intervene because on LSE, then not........ do please make up mind

Now stating thats its because IT COULD

The word 'could' is from the CMA ruling, not me, so I haven't changed anything.

This started with your usual adherence to the letter of everything FR says:

Ryanair have to do nothing.

Already proven that UK Competition Commission statements were a load of as they haven't prevented anybody else making a bid.

And another keyword wasn't 'bid' it was 'takeover'. And, as you ignore every single time it is stated to you, that was a minor part of the finding. The COMPETITION (big clue here Racedo) & Markets Authority found that it could substantially undermine competition. Given the overlap of competition on UK/Ireland routes of the two airlines, this is easy to understand. This is even easier to understand from the EU POV given the overlap of competition on all European routes from Ireland. To rational people.

Anyway, the UK has found against Ryanair. FR is also listed on the LSE. The UK has ordered it to sell down to 5%. This would be hard for France (your example) to do as FR is not listed on the CAC. Thus would appear to me more straightforward for the UK, because FR is listed on the LSE. The LSE will obviously be bound by any UK court ruling. Not hard really.

Finally if there is no offer to shareholders, there is no takeover. No takeover means no conflict with the minor point of the CMA ruling you are clinging to.

Finally, and this is hilarious:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/0...0LZ17B20150303

One of the big areas of discussion between ourselves and IAG would be what kind of competition remedies will IAG have to offer up to the European Commission to be able to allow a takeover to take place,

It looks to me like they might run interference on any offer and prove everyone else right after all!

[Schipholhand]

Bankruptcy

British Airways, which is a result of a fusion between BA and BEA has been rescued from bankruptcy almost as many times as myself, thanks to a good bank manager. The excuse always was that BOAC was forced to fly the Comet, Britannia and the Concorde and BEA the Tridents and BAC111's, all of which were spectacular, in that the VC10 and Concorde looked great, but lost money, even when parked, and the others looked rotten and lost money anyway. In each case the Government 'compensated' the airlines for being the sales promoters of British designed aircraft. During the same period Aer Lingus got approximately 200 million pounds subsidy,in total, some of which was to compensate it for having to cede Gatwick airport rights and Liverpool airport rights to Ryanair, to keep the latter airline from collapse. This amount was about the same as the annual subvention for airlines like Sabena and Alitalia. Iberia was a flying subsidy for some years and never made it's operating costs, let alone profit.

[DollarBill]

Its terrible wifi, dont even try to do more than check your Facebook or slowly upload photos. The PING would be very very high due to it being satellite and the download and uploads speeds would be sluggish at best.... But i wouldnt do it more than once, €20 is a nice fork out for WiFi that'll make you cry.

-I have used the A330 wi-fi 4 times and found it quite satisfactory. You won't be watching youtube but for web-browsing and email it was fine. And EI are marketing it mostly as a business perk (judging by their PR over the new J Class)
I know of an Irish aviation site where a guy was live posting in response to question as he flew to SFO with EI. (boards.ie) By the sounds of it he found it good too. P.S. why would you be uploading photos on non broadband connection.seems silly to me.

How is it that Emirates can do it so much cheaper?

-Could be that EK are absorbing some of the cost themselves in order to offer a "Premium product"..meanwhile EI are obviously letting the service provider decide on the charges.

[AerRyan]

For people who dont know as much as me and others on yere about broadband, they may not realise how slow it is.
They may think its the same as using wifi in the airport. Thats the problem.

[EI-BUD]

Schipol hand,
Ref to your last point in relation to ceding LGW to Ryanair I don't believe this was ever the case.

Aer Lingus exited DUB LGW in wake of gulf war when they were losing money on every seat to London. That was circa 91/92. The route was vacant for most of a year until Cityflyer Express came in. FR followed on in Jan 95.

Aer Lingus did however cede routes on dublin lpl stn and Munich for a 5 year period.

[Just a spotter]

@SH

It was the late Seamus Brennan TD, who as Minister for Transport in 1989 intervened to stop EI crushing (my term) FR, as it had done with a number of other potential startup competitors in the 80's. The routes ex-Dublin that were allocated to FR were Luton, Stansted, Liverpool and Munich. Brennan was one of the more pro-competition/pro-"open market" oriented members of Fianna Fáil, a position that put him somewhat at odds with the main body of the party. He used his power as Minister/regulator to allow a, then small airline, to get out from under the then all powerful State Flag Carrier.

From the Dáil record;

Mr. S. Brennan: I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 17 and 63 together. On 20 September 1989, following a review which I had conducted of the recent performances of Aer Lingus and Ryanair, I announced a number of changes in the allocation of routes to the two airlines. These changes included the grant of sole operating rights to Ryanair on the Dublin to Luton, Stansted, Liverpool and Munich routes and to Aer Lingus on the Dublin to Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester and Paris routes.

Dáil Éireann - 01/Feb/1990 Ceisteanna ? Questions. Oral Answers. - Air Transport Policy.

JAS

[ayroplain]

Aer Lingus unions' veiled threat

Unions remain unconvinced by IAG?s plan for Aer Lingus

They don't say what the "consequences" will be but we can all hazard a guess or two.

As this farce rolls on and on it becomes perfectly clear that the biggest obstacles to any takeover of EI are the unions. Insofar as they are concerned this is all about further diminution of power and who runs the airline. Expect them to fight this to the death.

[EI-A330-300]

EI are suspending SNN-BOS for 10 days over Easter. 752 needed at DUB (expect 330 delay). Not gone down well in some quarters, but sends a message the Government have no power to stop them!

[owenc]

Thats the first i've heard.

[airbourne]

I wasn't aware that you worked for EI owen hence why this is news to you!

[El Bunto]

So an A330 is still in maintenance, therefore they're nicking an 757 from Shannon for Dublin to Boston?

Not only do they have to refund or transfer the passengers booked from Shannon, but also offload surplus at Dublin too and handle them?

One wonders how that was simpler and cheaper than hiring an HiFly A340 or whatever for a few days.

'Use it or lose it' they say of the Shannon services, now with the disclaimer 'unless Dublin needs it whereby you lose it anyway'.

[Una Due Tfc]

3 A330s in maintenance, plus 1 in Sweden. The 2 with the French MRO have been badly delayed