Aer Lingus - 6
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It would at least be a start with the perfect aircraft for transatlantic services from Cork.
Given the population of the Cork metropolitan area vastly exceeds the Limerick/Shannon region, it`s inevitable that some airline, hopefully Aer Lingus will launch a transatlantic service from Cork in the future.
I don`t buy that a transatlantic service from Cork would undermine Shannon as the road network between Cork and Dublin airport is vastly superior than it is to Shannon.
Given the population of the Cork metropolitan area vastly exceeds the Limerick/Shannon region, it`s inevitable that some airline, hopefully Aer Lingus will launch a transatlantic service from Cork in the future.
I don`t buy that a transatlantic service from Cork would undermine Shannon as the road network between Cork and Dublin airport is vastly superior than it is to Shannon.
Last edited by CCR; 22nd Feb 2013 at 13:26.
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With EI moving to T5 in JFK I can't see a ORK T/A service for a while, EI are not going to split operations in JFK for a ORK service.
I fully agree with you CCR and In my own view it would make sense if they done something like this with the 757'sORK-JFK-ORK B757 Daily 11 March to 16 January (seasonal)
Then the 757 could take-over the SNN operations between 16 January and 11 March allowing year-round operation between SNN-JFK and BOS.
But hey how many times have we had news like this about a Cork US route.. Maybe I should just keep dreaming.
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hint of orange
For those of you who want to see Aer Lingus' new beta routemap AerLingus - New HTML5 Dynamic Route Maps
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You're probably right jf. The switch to the Jet Blue Terminal gives Aerlingus a new diplomatic excuse to give to the local media and the Chamber of Commerce as to why they can't start a Cork service. For decades it was the Shannon Stopover although we now know that the old bilateral never prohibited such a service, then the A330 was too large. No one forced them to order A330's in the first place.
Why don't Aerlingus clearly state that they have no interest in starting a transatlantic service from Cork if that is their position? At least then we can stop dreaming. Of course we have also had frequent statements from various airport spokespersons talking about transatlantic services. Most of these are in soft focus interviews. Only trouble is that they're always aspirational and the estimated start up dates are always several years into the future.
Needless to say they've never materialised apart from the Charters to New York and Orlando in the 1990's when the late Barry Roche was manager.
Why don't Aerlingus clearly state that they have no interest in starting a transatlantic service from Cork if that is their position? At least then we can stop dreaming. Of course we have also had frequent statements from various airport spokespersons talking about transatlantic services. Most of these are in soft focus interviews. Only trouble is that they're always aspirational and the estimated start up dates are always several years into the future.
Needless to say they've never materialised apart from the Charters to New York and Orlando in the 1990's when the late Barry Roche was manager.
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THe A332 will be operating for Novair during the winter, EI flight deck and Novair cabin crew.
Flights will operate from Helsinki, Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen to Punta Cana, Puerta Vallarta, Cancun and Port of Spain.
Flights will operate from Helsinki, Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen to Punta Cana, Puerta Vallarta, Cancun and Port of Spain.
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There is NOTHING to stop EI operating a ORK service to JFK even after the move to T5 - T5 is getting an international wing, which will have customs and immigration facilites.
Let's not let that get in the way of the conspiracy theorists though.
Let's not let that get in the way of the conspiracy theorists though.
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Well If they are only getting 3 aircraft there wont be enough for ORK this season anyway because 2 will be going to SNN and the 3rd is rumored to operate a route to Canada from DUB, but could end up in SNN too, depending on the frequency. So i very much doubt to see a 757 in ORK this year.
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There is NOTHING to stop EI operating a ORK service to JFK even after the move to T5 - T5 is getting an international wing, which will have customs and immigration facilites.
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Not any excuses.
Aer Lingus is a Business not a charity, sooner people realise this the better. People need to get a grip, next we will have Aer Lingus basing 25 aircrft at Cork and flying everywhere served from Dublin and be able to make a profit at the same time.
BTW don't work for Aer Lingus either.
Aer Lingus is a Business not a charity, sooner people realise this the better. People need to get a grip, next we will have Aer Lingus basing 25 aircrft at Cork and flying everywhere served from Dublin and be able to make a profit at the same time.
BTW don't work for Aer Lingus either.
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For decades Aerlingus has been trying to persuade business passengers in the Cork area to use Shannon to get to New York. They even provided free limousines at one stage to transport them there. However most prefer to travel via LHR.
I'm still not certain that normal business logic prevails when it comes to Aerlingus' transatlantic operation at Shannon. Is the A330 operation there profitable? It was losing money for years and yet they still operated it.
I presume if Shannon get 2 757's, it will free up an A330. San Francisco and Dubai as a code share with Ethiad are two possibilities in this scenario.
I'm still not certain that normal business logic prevails when it comes to Aerlingus' transatlantic operation at Shannon. Is the A330 operation there profitable? It was losing money for years and yet they still operated it.
I presume if Shannon get 2 757's, it will free up an A330. San Francisco and Dubai as a code share with Ethiad are two possibilities in this scenario.
Last edited by ryan2000; 23rd Feb 2013 at 05:22.
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Aside from a small number of extra passengers, all an Cork-New York service would achieve is taking passengers off their Cork-Heathrow, Cork-Amsterdam and Shannon/Dublin-New York routes. They won't want to undermine their own loads and yields.
If they ever do launch it, it'll be a defensive move to keep another carrier out.
Remember that there was no great expansion of European routes from Cork until Jetmagic came along.
If they ever do launch it, it'll be a defensive move to keep another carrier out.
Remember that there was no great expansion of European routes from Cork until Jetmagic came along.
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Aer Lingus is a Business not a charity
Aer Lingus basing 25 aircrft at Cork and flying everywhere served from Dublin and be able to make a profit at the same time.
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Remember that there was no great expansion of European routes from Cork until Jetmagic came along.
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AL were losing money in SNN during the winter and hence the reason why the A330s were pulled out and reinstated for the summer. No charity there.
What SNN is getting now is the opportunity of a year round service to JFK and BOS, initially on a 757 and then the NEOs when they enter into service.
Of course as everyone should appreciate aviation is a cyclical business and is impacted by many external forces. At this present time the 757 and NEO is a good fit for somewhere like SNN and it has the added benefit of freeing up the A330s to fly further afield. Who is to say that in the future that the US dollar doesn't strengthen against the EURO and that there is an influx of US tourists spending it up large. In which case the business case is then turned on its head and bigger hardware would be required.
What SNN is getting now is the opportunity of a year round service to JFK and BOS, initially on a 757 and then the NEOs when they enter into service.
Of course as everyone should appreciate aviation is a cyclical business and is impacted by many external forces. At this present time the 757 and NEO is a good fit for somewhere like SNN and it has the added benefit of freeing up the A330s to fly further afield. Who is to say that in the future that the US dollar doesn't strengthen against the EURO and that there is an influx of US tourists spending it up large. In which case the business case is then turned on its head and bigger hardware would be required.
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This is an age old debate why shouldn't EI do Cork to the US.
In my view if Cork gets a transatlantic route it will be by a US carrier who does not currently serve, Shannon. The list of possible US airlines is getting smaller who could possibly fit this market.
Moreover, it is not to say that the route to say JFK could not work but there are some distinct challenges:
- It is not a tried and tested route, yes there are passengers travelling between ORK and say JFK but that is in AerLingus's demain, hence no concrete data, I would suggest for interested parties i.e. airlines.
- Starting such a route would take time to establish, fuel burn on such a sector would be significant given the distance and a major disincentive to any interested airline.
- From Aer Lingus's perspective a ORK JFK route may have enough demand to sustain but it then could reduce the viability of a route like ORK AMS and would hit ORK LHR. They will want to ensure that the routes to cities like AMS are well subscribed so that they can not only get the feeding pax but use them to support the size of 320 and hence be able to offer a comprehensive proposition to the business man, i.e. 2 daily services.
- However, if one looks at Aer Lingus Regional Services on ORK UK routes, if these could feed a connection to the US, it could make the US route stack up and in the same train of thought as the AMS example, it could allow EIR to open routes ex the UK eg reinstate SOU ORK, other routes like LBA and the like may be more sustainable. Just a thought.
Of course all of that is another matter, as the reputation that interlining at DUB that EI has is often centred around US pre clearance etc, so ideally ORK would get that and given the costs etc to have a facility it may well not be feasible.
Just my angle on the debate. Net net for EI, it would not serve them, yes in isolation ORK JFK could work, but it would need to be a US legacy carrier who takes it and doesnt do SNN...?
EI-BUD
In my view if Cork gets a transatlantic route it will be by a US carrier who does not currently serve, Shannon. The list of possible US airlines is getting smaller who could possibly fit this market.
Moreover, it is not to say that the route to say JFK could not work but there are some distinct challenges:
- It is not a tried and tested route, yes there are passengers travelling between ORK and say JFK but that is in AerLingus's demain, hence no concrete data, I would suggest for interested parties i.e. airlines.
- Starting such a route would take time to establish, fuel burn on such a sector would be significant given the distance and a major disincentive to any interested airline.
- From Aer Lingus's perspective a ORK JFK route may have enough demand to sustain but it then could reduce the viability of a route like ORK AMS and would hit ORK LHR. They will want to ensure that the routes to cities like AMS are well subscribed so that they can not only get the feeding pax but use them to support the size of 320 and hence be able to offer a comprehensive proposition to the business man, i.e. 2 daily services.
- However, if one looks at Aer Lingus Regional Services on ORK UK routes, if these could feed a connection to the US, it could make the US route stack up and in the same train of thought as the AMS example, it could allow EIR to open routes ex the UK eg reinstate SOU ORK, other routes like LBA and the like may be more sustainable. Just a thought.
Of course all of that is another matter, as the reputation that interlining at DUB that EI has is often centred around US pre clearance etc, so ideally ORK would get that and given the costs etc to have a facility it may well not be feasible.
Just my angle on the debate. Net net for EI, it would not serve them, yes in isolation ORK JFK could work, but it would need to be a US legacy carrier who takes it and doesnt do SNN...?
EI-BUD
Last edited by EI-BUD; 23rd Feb 2013 at 13:29.
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I'd say their main concern is the impact it would have on SNN JFK. They probably feel the two services would cannibalise each other and the resulting yields would be buttons. At this stage AA/US is the only major US transatlantic airline that doesn't serve Shannon and realistically Cork isn't going to attract them anytime soon!
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The Apologists for Aer Lingus are getting into their stride now to as much as possible dash any hope of a North Atlantic destination from Cork. Someone spoke of Aer Lingus not being a charity - it seems they are not old enough to remember that is all that it was to a large extent up to about twenty years ago when the Aer Lingus's sheepskin coat brigade and other hangers on like Aer Rianta employees helped to fill up cabins on their weekend jaunts. What else would you have called Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta at Shannon only a charity case, or more to my mind, a sort of respectable upper class dole for a lot of folk whom had notions about themselves and whom thought world aviation revolved around their own few acres in County Clare.
It wont be anyone in Shannon's fault if by next summer there is no North Atlantic destination ex Cork if Aer Lingus still have use of 757 aircraft. It will be down to the Cork Airport Authority to a large extent - will their masters in the greedy Dublin Airport Authority cry halt either for their own greed reasons or will they play the Department & Varadkar line in not wanting to upset the Shannon ass cart?
Either way it may well present the Cork Airport Authority with another grand excuse to do as little as imaginatively as possible and to blame the equivalent of teaboys for their local problems. The mantra seems to be if in doubt do nothing at all.
It wont be anyone in Shannon's fault if by next summer there is no North Atlantic destination ex Cork if Aer Lingus still have use of 757 aircraft. It will be down to the Cork Airport Authority to a large extent - will their masters in the greedy Dublin Airport Authority cry halt either for their own greed reasons or will they play the Department & Varadkar line in not wanting to upset the Shannon ass cart?
Either way it may well present the Cork Airport Authority with another grand excuse to do as little as imaginatively as possible and to blame the equivalent of teaboys for their local problems. The mantra seems to be if in doubt do nothing at all.
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ryan2000, US are flying SNN-PHL this summer.
I think there will be some form of service ORK-JFK etc at some point in the future, with EI or not it remains to be seen. Connections from other EI services may be a big plus for it. America is a very big market from Ireland so there is surely some room for it. In fact, if 757 was kept on SNN summer services then I doubt a service from ORK would have very much impact on services from SNN. Lack of preclearance may put some off though.
If it were to be a legacy carrier then it would certainly be UA as they love regional flying in europe
I think there will be some form of service ORK-JFK etc at some point in the future, with EI or not it remains to be seen. Connections from other EI services may be a big plus for it. America is a very big market from Ireland so there is surely some room for it. In fact, if 757 was kept on SNN summer services then I doubt a service from ORK would have very much impact on services from SNN. Lack of preclearance may put some off though.
If it were to be a legacy carrier then it would certainly be UA as they love regional flying in europe