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Aer Lingus - 6

Old 25th Feb 2015, 18:42
  #2761 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps IAG will go for a hostile take over now. Ryanair have to sell shares and €2.55 each is a better deal than they will potentially get on the open market now the deal is off (presuming it was ever on).
Ryanair have to do nothing.

Already proven that UK Competition Commission statements were a load of as they haven't prevented anybody else making a bid.

That case is going to EU courts and with right lawyers will still be there in 3-4 yrs time.
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Old 25th Feb 2015, 18:44
  #2762 (permalink)  
 
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Things are not remotely as done-and-dusted as you imply!
I agree as if IAG buy 50% then its control and Irish Govt would sell.
Its the making of a decision that is the problem, when decision made then its easy.
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Old 25th Feb 2015, 19:30
  #2763 (permalink)  
 
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That case is going to EU courts and with right lawyers will still be there in 3-4 yrs time.
I think even Ducksy will get bored of wasting his shareholders money by then.
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Old 25th Feb 2015, 20:59
  #2764 (permalink)  
 
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Ducksie loves the courts

Spot on if there was ever a man who can spend shareholders money on defending the indefensible its Ducksie, that Clongowes year are so well fed,,,,,
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Old 25th Feb 2015, 23:35
  #2765 (permalink)  
 
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Spot on if there was ever a man who can spend shareholders money on defending the indefensible its Ducksie, that Clongowes year are so well fed,,,,,

Depends on whether you believe that a UK court should decide on what 2 Irish companies do, especially when basis of its decision has proven to be false.

Would UK Govt remain quiet if Irish Competition authorities tried to tell 2 UK companies what they could do ?

UK Competition Commission never Investigated BAA until it was taken over by Foreigners when all of a sudden it was anti Competitive.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 10:00
  #2766 (permalink)  
 
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what two Irish companies do
Those two Irish companies both trade and employ people in the UK. They're also both listed on the LSE. For that reason both companies fall under UK court juristriction.

As for the grounds for the original complaint, that you allude to... The IAG bid certainly hasn't blown the case out of the water!

Any company, including Ryanair would not be happy with their principle competitor being a major shareholder and able to disrupt the business.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 11:03
  #2767 (permalink)  
 
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Politicians and unions need to wake up to the fact that the IAG bid for Aer Lingus is probably the best thing for the aviation industry in Ireland!

Only then can the country have two strong airlines competing for market share!

Not long ago they were worrying about EI being swallowed up by Ryanair! Where would the LHR slots and Union members jobs be now I wonder?

Have no fear, EI/IAG will continue with the LHR slots as long as there's money to be made. They will be the USP in their competition with Ryanair.

As for job losses! I suspect they will be an awful lot less than if MOL has his way!
IAG can offer real protection from that scenario.

Of course EI could go it alone and continue to be a small airline on the fringe of Europe..... Until the next financial collapse! MOL will probably get them on the cheap then!
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 13:16
  #2768 (permalink)  
 
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IAG have come back and are meeting with various parties in the next few weeks including unions.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 15:06
  #2769 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Epsomdog View Post
As for job losses! I suspect they will be an awful lot less than if MOL has his way! IAG can offer real protection from that scenario.
Interestingly, the Aer Lingus unions recently reversed their position on IAG's proposed takeover; having initially opposed it, they now support it.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 16:19
  #2770 (permalink)  
 
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Interestingly, the Aer Lingus unions recently reversed their position on IAG's proposed takeover; having initially opposed it, they now support it.
I think you'll find that's not the case.

One of the CRC members was interviewed and his personal view was then quoted as the Union position! The unions have subsequently distanced themselves from that view!
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 19:08
  #2771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Epsomdog View Post
I think you'll find that's not the case.

One of the CRC members was interviewed and his personal view was then quoted as the Union position! The unions have subsequently distanced themselves from that view!
In fairness, this wasn't some sort of man-in-the-street vox pop on what random people think of the IAG bid; he was interviewed about the bid on a radio current affairs capacity in his professional capacity as Aer Lingus CRC secretary. He is senior enough to have been one of the 3 or 4 union people (and the only one employed by Aer Lingus) to appear before the Transport Committee a couple of weeks ago. This wasn't some naive newbie talking out of turn. I think there is some inter-union politicking going on.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 22:10
  #2772 (permalink)  
 
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Any company, including Ryanair would not be happy with their principle competitor being a major shareholder and able to disrupt the business.
Any Examples of where they have used their shareholding to disrupt Aer Lingus business ?
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 22:12
  #2773 (permalink)  
 
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Those two Irish companies both trade and employ people in the UK. They're also both listed on the LSE. For that reason both companies fall under UK court juristriction.
Only in relation to UK operation, nothing else.

Ryanair can delist from LSE and nothing UK can do about it.

Issue will be decided in EU courts rather than London which is as it should be.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 23:37
  #2774 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanair can delist from the LSE
I agree but until such time as they do so, they will have to abide by the rules!
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 17:21
  #2775 (permalink)  
 
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I agree but until such time as they do so, they will have to abide by the rules!
Listing on LSE has nothing to do with Competition Commission.

In this case UK Civil Servants are attempting to interfere in something covered within EU law, EU Law which didn't seem to have a problem with this.

The claim that because companies trade in UK is a basis of Govt interference means that French Govt can interfere in IAG / EI because both EI and IAG trade in France. Once you allow interference it means you allow everybody to do it and make whatever reasons they wish.

Likewise this will set a precedence that any EU country can get involved in any takeover because one or both companys involved trade in that country.

The whole basis of the claim that Ryanair holding a minority shareholding would block any other airline considering a bid has been proven to be false, yet UK Govt will still push that because bureaucrats the world over cannot admit they are wrong.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 17:29
  #2776 (permalink)  
 
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In much the same way as some contributors seem to think Ryanair can do no wrong
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 18:15
  #2777 (permalink)  
 
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EI and IAG don't compete on routes out of France though Racedo, whereas EI and FR compete on a number of routes between the U.K. and Knock, Dublin, Cork and Shannon. On many of these routes they are the only 2 airlines serving them.

MO'L said a few years ago that he would happily sell the shares to another interested airline, but none were interested. Are you saying now IAG have called his bluff he is going to seek a court ruling to prevent him having to do exactly that?
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 00:54
  #2778 (permalink)  
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Racedo's post regarding EI & FR is disingenuous as usual.

FR & EI are both listed on the London Stock Exchange. He is well aware that this is the authority on which the UK can investigate. Thus his France argument is nonsense.

Also his pedalling of the mantra regarding the prevention of a takeover renders the finding invalid, is also misleading. The primary basis of the finding was 'that Ryanair's shareholding could "substantially lessen" competition on routes between the UK and Ireland.'

Finally, even regarding the takeover, IAG bidding for EI doesn't 'prove' that FR is not blocking others from taking it over, that won't happen unless IAG succeeds.

It is difficult to see the point of his bizarre argument because anyone fooled by it cannot be remotely familiar with the facts and thus he is preaching to the irrelevant.
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 02:37
  #2779 (permalink)  
 
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Racedo's post regarding EI & FR is disingenuous as usual.

FR & EI are both listed on the London Stock Exchange. He is well aware that this is the authority on which the UK can investigate. Thus his France argument is nonsense.
Completely false.

Please show where LSE listing rules provide UK competition commission authority to get involved with any company.


Also his pedalling of the mantra regarding the prevention of a takeover renders the finding invalid, is also misleading. The primary basis of the finding was 'that Ryanair's shareholding could "substantially lessen" competition on routes between the UK and Ireland.'
"The CC found that the two companies had ceased to be distinct enterprises for the purposes of the Act as a result of Ryanair’s ability to exercise material influence over the policy of Aer Lingus and that this therefore amounted to a relevant merger situation. Ryanair with a holding of 29.82% could block special resolutions at general meetings of Aer Lingus and could prevent Aer Lingus from merging with another airline either within a scheme of arrangement or under Directive 2005/56/EC on cross-border mergers."

The divestment was based on claiming that a merger situation existed where "2 separate entities had ceased to be distinct".

A clear false position because Ryanairs holding has not stopped Aer Lingus competing


Finally, even regarding the takeover, IAG bidding for EI doesn't 'prove' that FR is not blocking others from taking it over, that won't happen unless IAG succeeds.

It is difficult to see the point of his bizarre argument because anyone fooled by it cannot be remotely familiar with the facts and thus he is preaching to the irrelevant.
"“7.30 Third parties told us that any acquirer of Aer Lingus would be likely to be concerned by Ryanair’s minority shareholding. IAG told us that it would not usually contemplate buying a controlling interest in an airline with a significant ongoing minority shareholder. Air France said that Ryanair’s presence as an existing shareholder in Aer Lingus was not considered a deterrent to another airline acquiring an interest in the airline. However, there would be concerns over the illiquid share block between the shares held by the Irish Government, Ryanair and employees. Overall, Air France said that it would be difficult, but not impossible, for another airline to take a stake in Aer Lingus given its current share register. Lufthansa said that having a competitor like Ryanair as a shareholder made Aer Lingus’s shareholder structure rather challenging and made the airline rather less attractive. Aer Arann told us that a potential suitor would have concerns about acquiring an airline in which the largest shareholder was also a competitor."

All in "" is direct from the Judgement.
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 02:43
  #2780 (permalink)  
 
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MO'L said a few years ago that he would happily sell the shares to another interested airline, but none were interested. Are you saying now IAG have called his bluff he is going to seek a court ruling to prevent him having to do exactly that?
IAG have made no formal bid to shareholders.

Therefore how can IAG have called anybodys bluff when no formal offer has been received by shareholders.

What is noted in previous post is that IAG have stated via their Lawyers that

" IAG told us that it would not usually contemplate buying a controlling interest in an airline with a significant ongoing minority shareholder."

They have had no discussions with Ryanair as was publicly stated by the company at the last results publication. So Ryanair board cannot make a judgement on something that hasn't been put to them.

It does however suggest that if Irish Govt refuses to sell its shares then Takeover is off before any other Shareholders are spoken with.
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