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Aer Lingus - 6

Old 8th Mar 2014, 00:45
  #2121 (permalink)  
 
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And on that note it was under the CEO-ship of Mannion that the statement about the "once off payment E104M to end liability" was made. At that point the IASS fund was in the black. EI should have addressed the issue then when it was the 'boom years' and gotten themselves away from it.
A shareholder who invested in the original IPO (and still holds shares) would have a pretty solid case that Aer Lingus misled them in prospectus in relation to that one off and could block any further funds going in or have damages.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 20:33
  #2122 (permalink)  
 
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Nonsense! An investor might take a case to test in court but that would cost a fortune with no garentee whatsoever of return, admittedly they could then appeal that ruling...oh I see your stratagem now...genius!
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 20:43
  #2123 (permalink)  
 
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Nonsense! An investor might take a case to test in court but that would cost a fortune with no garentee whatsoever of return, admittedly they could then appeal that ruling...oh I see your stratagem now...genius!
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 21:46
  #2124 (permalink)  
 
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Nonsense! An investor might take a case to test in court but that would cost a fortune with no garentee whatsoever of return, admittedly they could then appeal that ruling...oh I see your stratagem now...genius!
Er No

IPO prospectus gave certain assurances to potential investors regarding the way Investment proceeds received would be for benefit of the company and that the €104 Million to pension fund was a complete one-off.

Now some years later the Investor finds that the guarantees given were not worth anything and were misleading or plainly false.

Investor can claim that he/she/it was persuaded to invest under false statements given in prospectus.

A shareholder would stand a reasonable chance of winning and solicitor on a no win/no fee basis would take it on.

Has happened before and no doubt will happen again.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:09
  #2125 (permalink)  
 
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IPO prospectus gave certain assurances to potential investors regarding the way Investment proceeds received would be for benefit of the company and that the €104 Million to pension fund was a complete one-off.

Now some years later the Investor finds that the guarantees given were not worth anything and were misleading or plainly false.

Investor can claim that he/she/it was persuaded to invest under false statements given in prospectus.

A shareholder would stand a reasonable chance of winning and solicitor on a no win/no fee basis would take it on.

Has happened before and no doubt will happen again.
Those EXACT same guarantees/promises were given to the staff ( ESOP & ESOT). who were 12.5% shareholders at the time of flotation. So can they take the company to task over those same made promises/guarantees/assurances?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 08:12
  #2126 (permalink)  
 
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Well get on with it then racedo ol'boy. Talks cheap.
Riddle me this: can you think of another Irish airline that recently wound up its own defined benifit scheme also in deficit and spent $HAREHOLDER$ money to clear it's liability?
No win no fee, oh yeah they'll just be lining up in great recedo vs reality episode of judge judy.
Judicial review and mandate is a very expensive way of determining ones course of action and exposes a lack of common sense.
Honestly racedo you are almost always wrong, your conclusions worthy of fox news. I gotta tell you I got nottin but luv for u, but why not sit one out nostradamus?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 13:31
  #2127 (permalink)  
 
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Are the newer staff paying in to the same old fund but getting less returns when they retire or was a separate scheme set up for them? One would hope it was the latter
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 16:31
  #2128 (permalink)  
 
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Those EXACT same guarantees/promises were given to the staff ( ESOP & ESOT). who were 12.5% shareholders at the time of flotation. So can they take the company to task over those same made promises/guarantees/assurances?
Of course as they invested on basis of IPO prospectus..........
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 16:45
  #2129 (permalink)  
 
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Well get on with it then racedo ol'boy. Talks cheap.
Not an investor into Aer Lingus as not that stupid, having read the prospectus I didn't see where its long term future was..........still not evident.

Giving the staff 12.5% I could understand but giving €104 M to pension fund where no legal guarantee from Pension fund that it was final was always weak and a risk.
Looks like keeping money in bank was a good idea.

As for being wrong well said its base expansion was a mistake when everybody here claiming it would be best thing since sliced bread and Easyjet should be worrying .........how is it doing again ?

Notice you not addressing how having got 12.5% of Company, €104M of proceeds of IPO and now potentially another €140 million that somehow Aer Lingus is being unfair to its employees.
50% of its IPO proceeds paying off the Pension fund V EI future.
At what point in time is it correct to stop putting money into a black hole.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 21:05
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Are the newer staff paying in to the same old fund but getting less returns when they retire or was a separate scheme set up for them? One would hope it was the latter
Unfortunately not.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 18:30
  #2131 (permalink)  
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@Racedo As I am sure you are aware, any proposed contribution will be put to the shareholders for approval first.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 21:39
  #2132 (permalink)  
 
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http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...ml#post8345175

As I am sure you are aware, any proposed contribution will be put to the shareholders for approval first.
Yup as posted the detail above......

The WTF happens if shareholders don't approve........not even going to go there
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 18:28
  #2133 (permalink)  
 
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Aer Lingus have launched "bid to upgrade" on T/A service. Passengers who booked in Y can make an offer to upgrade to J on a flight and if there is availability and EI accept the offer they will give the upgrade to J.

Seems like a good way of filling J when its not full and taking extra revenue.

Stephen Kavanagh did a interview with anna.aero.

RTP for up to 40 short haul aircraft within 18 months. (will include 752 replacements)

They are looking at Florida and possibly another gateway on east coast in 2015.

30 second interview: Aer Lingus CCO, Stephen Kavanagh
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 20:18
  #2134 (permalink)  
 
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The unmentionable airline do the same thing apparently, sounds like a win-win.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:00
  #2135 (permalink)  
 
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Aer Lingus sues SIPTU for damages - RTÉ News


Think they have a pretty good case!
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:44
  #2136 (permalink)  
 
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They have SIPTU over a barrel here, "back down on your pension demands and this all goes away, otherwise....." If I were a EI/DAA member of SIPTU I would be furious that they have allowed themselves be snookered like this.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 20:42
  #2137 (permalink)  
 
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Aer Lingus sues SIPTU for damages - RTÉ News


Think they have a pretty good case!
Any damages go to Pension fund
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 00:35
  #2138 (permalink)  
 
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Any damages go to Pension fund
They lack the brain-power there I'm afraid, more likely into the pockets of top brass.

If I were a EI/DAA member of SIPTU I would be furious that they have allowed themselves be snookered like this.
We are, not only do we have management who lack basic common sense, we have an inept union now who will no doubt lose this case and we end up again the losers in all this.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 11:38
  #2139 (permalink)  
 
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we have an inept union now who will no doubt lose this case and we end up again the losers in all this.
The union members (staff) had a golden opportunity here to bring the union headbangers to their senses. When the expert group was set up the strike should have been called off. Instead, all reason went out the window, the union not only decided otherwise but also indicated that they were meeting to consider what the next strike action would amount to. They were not doing this for the good of the staff, they were doing it to show off that they still had the power. The staff should have seen through that and acted accordingly. Instead they allowed themselves to be led further into the mire.

You think that's pie-in-the-sky? I know two instances where this occurred including in a very large company I once worked for. Strike was called but prior to its implementation there were developments and we told the union we should postpone it. The (upstart) union leader refused, said we can teach them a lesson. We then decided to call it off ourselves and things were sorted. The union headbanger resigned and good riddance. Every reasonable worker in EI and the DAA must have known in their hearts that the strike should have been called off but didn't have the guts to go against their headbangers. By not doing so they allowed their own company (in the case of EI) to incur huge financial losses and loss of reputation. I hope that some sort of agreement is reached but the staff should really start to think for themselves instead of blindly following people who have clearly demonstrated that they only have their own interests at heart.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 10:24
  #2140 (permalink)  
 
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They lack the brain-power there I'm afraid, more likely into the pockets of top brass.
How would that work exactly?
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