The fat lady has sung: American Airlines buys Airbus and Boeing
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The fat lady has sung: American Airlines buys Airbus and Boeing
AMR Corporation Announces Largest Aircraft Order in History With Boeing and Airbus - Jul 20, 2011
Lots of Airbus to be expected at American Airlines in the coming years ...
Lots of Airbus to be expected at American Airlines in the coming years ...
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SASKATOON9999:
10 years ago AAL was operating some ABs:
DCA02MA001
Further, there are many other U.S. carriers that have operated Airbus birds for quite a long time, none of which were subject to " lots of feet stamping, yelling and calls for government intervention and a judicial review to overturn the decision in favour of Boeing."
We yanks have private enterpise and we have government. Our airlines are private enterprise, at least when it comes to equipment purchases.
Tankers, OTOH, are owned and operated by the government.
Expect lots of toys being thrown out prams, lots of feet stamping, yelling and calls for government intervention and a judicial review to overturn the decision in favour of Boeing - Just as with the Air Tanker process!
Kudos to AA executives for realising that there are other manufacturers on the market!
Kudos to AA executives for realising that there are other manufacturers on the market!
DCA02MA001
Further, there are many other U.S. carriers that have operated Airbus birds for quite a long time, none of which were subject to " lots of feet stamping, yelling and calls for government intervention and a judicial review to overturn the decision in favour of Boeing."
We yanks have private enterpise and we have government. Our airlines are private enterprise, at least when it comes to equipment purchases.
Tankers, OTOH, are owned and operated by the government.
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Can anyone explain the commercial logic of ordering BOTH the A320neo and 737NG??? The two appear so close that they overlap.
Is it:
To ascertain which performs best, then standardsise on that machine, re-selling the other orders off the production line?
A way of demanding the best unit prices from the competing manufacturers, despite the additional cost of operating two very similar types?
Some form of new financial wizardry that looks very clever today on paper but which result in yet another Ch 11 filing 5 years down the road?
Is it:
To ascertain which performs best, then standardsise on that machine, re-selling the other orders off the production line?
A way of demanding the best unit prices from the competing manufacturers, despite the additional cost of operating two very similar types?
Some form of new financial wizardry that looks very clever today on paper but which result in yet another Ch 11 filing 5 years down the road?
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Can anyone explain the commercial logic of ordering BOTH the A320neo and 737NG??? The two appear so close that they overlap.
Also, AA have used Airbus products previously.
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Oh you cynic TWR 
But you could be right!
I imagine that neither Boeing nor Airbus could deliver as rapidly as AAL need those new aircraft on the line so I'm thinking along the same line as Mercenary Pilot.
But you could be right!I imagine that neither Boeing nor Airbus could deliver as rapidly as AAL need those new aircraft on the line so I'm thinking along the same line as Mercenary Pilot.
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Thats a lot of aeroplanes!
It will be interesting to see how people who screwed Boeing and Airbus when times were tough (ie Ryanair's CEO) will manage to negotiate their 'customary discounts', or be forced to go elsewhere in future - either way it will pose them a headache.
Good news for Boeing,Airbus and AA though....as long as industry growth holds up...
It will be interesting to see how people who screwed Boeing and Airbus when times were tough (ie Ryanair's CEO) will manage to negotiate their 'customary discounts', or be forced to go elsewhere in future - either way it will pose them a headache.
Good news for Boeing,Airbus and AA though....as long as industry growth holds up...
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What about "do not put all of your eggs in one basket"?
Capitalism=Hedge.
I think this will speed things up for them, which they need if they want to remain relevant among the giants that Delta and United have become since acquiring Northwest and Continental.
The bigger question will be what are the regional airlines in the US gonna do when AAL steals all their pilots? What is gonna happen to American Eagle with such a large order for quasi-regional jets from "Big Brother"?
Other regional airlines have ordered big Embraers and CRJs, but the Neo is nudging right up against RJ territory with operating costs. Boeing's 737 successor is surely to be a new model so as to one-up Airbus' re-engined A320. This will lower the Boeing product's operating costs more - making it even more like a big RJ.
Very interesting news.
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I think Sully could have landed a B757 or any other airplane in the Hudson as well as he did the Airbus. Technology and automation had nothing to do with his sucessful ditching, piloting skills did.
I read his book and he never mentioned any advantage he had because of the type of aircraft he was flying. Ditching without stalling is pretty elementary and we all know not do do that.
I read his book and he never mentioned any advantage he had because of the type of aircraft he was flying. Ditching without stalling is pretty elementary and we all know not do do that.
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Sources have said today:
Had Airbus been able to deliver the A32X soon enough, the whole order could well have ended up at Airbus. The very important news about the launch of the 737RE (re-engined 737 with CFM Leap-X) almost drowned in hype around the Airbus order, and ended up as only a single paragraph in Boeing press release about the AA order today.
I guess John Leahy have had a good laugh today after his prediction failed. It didn't last "about one year, maybe two", but only five months "until Boeing will simply offer new engines on its 737".
(the two quotes above are taken from Airbus exec.: Boeing will re-engine 737 (Bloomberg) | Boeing and Aerospace News - seattlepi.com
Had Airbus been able to deliver the A32X soon enough, the whole order could well have ended up at Airbus. The very important news about the launch of the 737RE (re-engined 737 with CFM Leap-X) almost drowned in hype around the Airbus order, and ended up as only a single paragraph in Boeing press release about the AA order today.
Boeing Press Release 20 July 2011:
In addition, American Airlines has committed to order a variant of the 737 featuring new more fuel-efficient engines, pending final airplane configuration and launch approval of the program by the Boeing board of directors. This commitment for 100 airplanes, with options for 60 more, is the first of many anticipated for this variant. The airplane would be powered by CFM International's LEAP-X engine.
In addition, American Airlines has committed to order a variant of the 737 featuring new more fuel-efficient engines, pending final airplane configuration and launch approval of the program by the Boeing board of directors. This commitment for 100 airplanes, with options for 60 more, is the first of many anticipated for this variant. The airplane would be powered by CFM International's LEAP-X engine.
(the two quotes above are taken from Airbus exec.: Boeing will re-engine 737 (Bloomberg) | Boeing and Aerospace News - seattlepi.com
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It may also do with dominating deliveries as AA looks FWD while the other two larger airlines are waiting to see what the best option is. AA will save money in the long run by covering the spread and replacing old diesel burners giving them a profit edge for expansion over the next decade.
A sure bet is the price of fuel will only increase.
A sure bet is the price of fuel will only increase.
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American Airlines and a split order
Lots of large (and not so large) airlines operate similar sized machines from different manufacturers -Air Berlin, SAS, THY, Lufthansa, BA (A320 family plus B737), US Air, Even beofre the amalgamation with NW Delta flew B737-200 and MD80's. Recently Southwest has hinted at a 2 model fleet. American flew A300's and similar sized Beoings for years.
For the size of AA, split fleets at different bases means not a lot of economy of scale is lost.
For the size of AA, split fleets at different bases means not a lot of economy of scale is lost.
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Awesome news for Airbus and AAL.
Boeing offered the 737RE (Re Engined) as a last resource to get some money from American. They knew from the beginning when the rumors came up a few weeks ago, they had to move fast...The cost for the NEO upgrades on the A32x family rounds $1.5 billion...on the 737NG it's going to be a lot more expensive, they have to raise the LG, redesign the wing box, strength the wing box and wings, new pylon. I guess that this would be the last stretch on the fuselage design that has more than 30 years on the market...Boeing should be launching the RE on 2017...pushing the NSA (New Single Aisle) at least 5-8 years.
Let's see how the stakes are on this...if Delta follows the same road as American...the plane market on the US is going to get very interesting. ....
Regards
Boeing offered the 737RE (Re Engined) as a last resource to get some money from American. They knew from the beginning when the rumors came up a few weeks ago, they had to move fast...The cost for the NEO upgrades on the A32x family rounds $1.5 billion...on the 737NG it's going to be a lot more expensive, they have to raise the LG, redesign the wing box, strength the wing box and wings, new pylon. I guess that this would be the last stretch on the fuselage design that has more than 30 years on the market...Boeing should be launching the RE on 2017...pushing the NSA (New Single Aisle) at least 5-8 years.
Let's see how the stakes are on this...if Delta follows the same road as American...the plane market on the US is going to get very interesting. ....
Regards
Last edited by mingocr83; 20th Jul 2011 at 21:56. Reason: typo
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I was kinda wondering about that with the 737, they really have stretched that design to the limit...and were resisting the redesign of the box, with all the the engineering going into the 87.
The success of the NEO drove them to do this, and the potential to lose a much larger portion of the AAL contract, short squeeze is a good term...
Airbus may have to open that facility in the US after all....
(Boeing knows how to build airplanes, they do not know how to make money building airplanes)
The success of the NEO drove them to do this, and the potential to lose a much larger portion of the AAL contract, short squeeze is a good term...
Airbus may have to open that facility in the US after all....
(Boeing knows how to build airplanes, they do not know how to make money building airplanes)
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I haven't read other articles on that matter but I guess one of the drivers here Airbus simply cannot deliver that many A320s/320Neos in time. I'm even more surprised they were able to secure 130x pre-Neo 320s... If you are regular size operator and ask Toulouse "can I buy a few more?" you will be allocated a slot for mid/late 2015 delivery, almost the same time when 320neo production starts.
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CargoOne...
Airbus, since the KC-45 program has been thinking about opening a manufacturing line in the US. I guess this purchase plus the options that are in the line...(645) may force Airbus to get this plant going to supply American Airlines+ Latin American customers with no hiccups.
The problem is not manufacturing ...Boeing and Airbus can go up to 60 planes a month...the problem is if the suppliers can keep up with the rhythm, that is the culprit for the upcoming programs...
Airbus, since the KC-45 program has been thinking about opening a manufacturing line in the US. I guess this purchase plus the options that are in the line...(645) may force Airbus to get this plant going to supply American Airlines+ Latin American customers with no hiccups.
The problem is not manufacturing ...Boeing and Airbus can go up to 60 planes a month...the problem is if the suppliers can keep up with the rhythm, that is the culprit for the upcoming programs...
The problem is not manufacturing ...Boeing and Airbus can go up to 60 planes a month...the problem is if the suppliers can keep up with the rhythm, that is the culprit for the upcoming programs...
They would happily take the money but they couldn't deliver the airplane because the elves in the North pole and the Black forest couldn't produce it, That's the way of today's global economy some days nobody is going to buy your paper airplane.