Spanair is about to close
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I think the original article in Spanish is here (in a publication called "Economía Digital", hence the bizarre mistranslated reference to "accessed the digital economy" at the end of the machine-translated original posting...)
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Having read the article, it does not to me indicate the imminent closure of Spanair. In essence it's a statement by SAS saying they will protect the interests of all parties. They can't continue to lose a million euros a day though so one does wonder where this will end, some kind of restructuring and trimming?
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Precisely.
I have even taken a look at the notes to SAS's interim report of last week. There is no suggestion of the imminent failure of Spanair.
However, as SAS still own 10.9% of Spanair, under "Remaining Commitments", it occupies most space.
In addition, there is also a possible further payment expected from Lufthansa regarding SAS's former bmi shareholding an an ongoing exposure with bmi of £19million. There is a loan to Air Baltic due for repayment of US$7 million and one to Estonian Air of €7million.
Perhaps NEWYEAR will now let us have his take on bmi trading losses and probability of their going bust, as well as Air Baltic and Estonian Air?
As I said before, this thread by it's title and the originator's comment (based on an online magazine article) has no merit.
I have even taken a look at the notes to SAS's interim report of last week. There is no suggestion of the imminent failure of Spanair.
However, as SAS still own 10.9% of Spanair, under "Remaining Commitments", it occupies most space.
In addition, there is also a possible further payment expected from Lufthansa regarding SAS's former bmi shareholding an an ongoing exposure with bmi of £19million. There is a loan to Air Baltic due for repayment of US$7 million and one to Estonian Air of €7million.
Perhaps NEWYEAR will now let us have his take on bmi trading losses and probability of their going bust, as well as Air Baltic and Estonian Air?
As I said before, this thread by it's title and the originator's comment (based on an online magazine article) has no merit.
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BigFrank,
Hailing as you do from my adopted home town you must be painfully aware of the Catalan Govts failure to keep to the promises ,made by its predecessors, to Ryanair. In contrast witness its determination to invest in/subsidise an airline that is a basket case. Even if I were Catalan (which I am not) I would prefer my taxes be spent subsidising Mickey Boy, who previously had 11 aircraft based in Girona, & operated around 89 flights a day.
All the investment in the airport & infrastructure, & the money that poured into Girona, has fizzled out, as Snr Mas has decided he would rather give the money to his latest "Darling" Air Catalunya aka Spanair.
Any straight thinking Catalan should be up in arms about that, not about subsidising Air O' Leary, considering how much dosh they have (& still are via BCN & REU ) bringing to the local economy.
Surely the Ctalans are not letting their regional fanaticism get in the way of the stuff even dearer to their heart. . . making money
Hailing as you do from my adopted home town you must be painfully aware of the Catalan Govts failure to keep to the promises ,made by its predecessors, to Ryanair. In contrast witness its determination to invest in/subsidise an airline that is a basket case. Even if I were Catalan (which I am not) I would prefer my taxes be spent subsidising Mickey Boy, who previously had 11 aircraft based in Girona, & operated around 89 flights a day.
All the investment in the airport & infrastructure, & the money that poured into Girona, has fizzled out, as Snr Mas has decided he would rather give the money to his latest "Darling" Air Catalunya aka Spanair.
Any straight thinking Catalan should be up in arms about that, not about subsidising Air O' Leary, considering how much dosh they have (& still are via BCN & REU ) bringing to the local economy.
Surely the Ctalans are not letting their regional fanaticism get in the way of the stuff even dearer to their heart. . . making money
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Making money...diners...dosh
Whilst you, CPS, may see the rival claims of Ryanair and Spanair as chalk and cheese, I for one have more problems in seeing the difference.
The "promises" allegedly made by a previous government have no moral, legal or political purchase when that government loses an election. ¿Can the Spanish owners of BAA berate the current UK coalition government for failing to "keep the promise" of the previous New Labour administration to build a 3rd runway at LHR so long as EU pollution rules could be met?
As for Ryanair´s long term commitment to Catalonia, the very concept is surely as oxymoronic as military intelligence.
Methinks that The Leprechaun and his airline could give any known state airline, bank, finance house or public utility a run for their money in terms of filleting every last eurocent from the public purse whether of Éire, of Catalonia, of San Marino, of Andorra or of Lichtenstein. And of promptly turning up the next day after signing the agreement to ask for more whilst threatening to move locally based airplanes to Andorra la Vella if his outrageous blackmail is not submitted to. All this combined with failing to meet even the most basic of regulations relating to national rules on employment law, on social security payments and a very long etc.
For O´Leary to accuse Artur Mas and his government of welching on a deal is indeed to take the concept of the pot calling the kettle black into stratospheric orbit.
In this context, recent Spanish press reports to the effect that Ryanair has been threatening the Spanish Government in this same way if it does not turn a blind eye to Ryanair´s failure to date to pay a series of major fines levied by consumer authorities make me wonder whether the sell by date of the Ryanair model is now measured in months or in weeks.
None of which is much consolation to the hard pressed Catalan taxpayer.
The "promises" allegedly made by a previous government have no moral, legal or political purchase when that government loses an election. ¿Can the Spanish owners of BAA berate the current UK coalition government for failing to "keep the promise" of the previous New Labour administration to build a 3rd runway at LHR so long as EU pollution rules could be met?
As for Ryanair´s long term commitment to Catalonia, the very concept is surely as oxymoronic as military intelligence.
Methinks that The Leprechaun and his airline could give any known state airline, bank, finance house or public utility a run for their money in terms of filleting every last eurocent from the public purse whether of Éire, of Catalonia, of San Marino, of Andorra or of Lichtenstein. And of promptly turning up the next day after signing the agreement to ask for more whilst threatening to move locally based airplanes to Andorra la Vella if his outrageous blackmail is not submitted to. All this combined with failing to meet even the most basic of regulations relating to national rules on employment law, on social security payments and a very long etc.
For O´Leary to accuse Artur Mas and his government of welching on a deal is indeed to take the concept of the pot calling the kettle black into stratospheric orbit.
In this context, recent Spanish press reports to the effect that Ryanair has been threatening the Spanish Government in this same way if it does not turn a blind eye to Ryanair´s failure to date to pay a series of major fines levied by consumer authorities make me wonder whether the sell by date of the Ryanair model is now measured in months or in weeks.
None of which is much consolation to the hard pressed Catalan taxpayer.
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Political motivation of this thread ?
As I am not the originator I cannot answer.
As an observer and as a participant of/ in the thread, my hunch is "very possibly"; although quite how many votes PSC/ ERC/ ICV/ EUA/ PP/ CUP/ CiU and a very long tail of fringe parties might hope to trawl from this particular backwater of the internet I do not know. "Not many" would be my hunch there.
More important still would be my question "So what?"
No imputation of political interest in any way minimises, for me at least as a taxpayer in Catalonia, the importance of the issues which I personally have decided to post on:
i) Airline (and airport) subsidies in Catalonia at a time of significant public service cuts
ii) Subsidies for alleged basket cases à la Spanair (on which I have not expressed an opinion due to lack of knowledge. Though I am aware that the Catalan government seems to be extremely well disposed a priori to this airline.)
iii) Subsidies for malevolent predator airlines such as Ryanair (on which I have expressed a clear opinion which I have reinforced at the start of this sentence.)
Out of interest, can anyone supply up to date figures on how much each of these two airlines have received to date from the Catalan public purse ?
As an observer and as a participant of/ in the thread, my hunch is "very possibly"; although quite how many votes PSC/ ERC/ ICV/ EUA/ PP/ CUP/ CiU and a very long tail of fringe parties might hope to trawl from this particular backwater of the internet I do not know. "Not many" would be my hunch there.
More important still would be my question "So what?"
No imputation of political interest in any way minimises, for me at least as a taxpayer in Catalonia, the importance of the issues which I personally have decided to post on:
i) Airline (and airport) subsidies in Catalonia at a time of significant public service cuts
ii) Subsidies for alleged basket cases à la Spanair (on which I have not expressed an opinion due to lack of knowledge. Though I am aware that the Catalan government seems to be extremely well disposed a priori to this airline.)
iii) Subsidies for malevolent predator airlines such as Ryanair (on which I have expressed a clear opinion which I have reinforced at the start of this sentence.)
Out of interest, can anyone supply up to date figures on how much each of these two airlines have received to date from the Catalan public purse ?
In this context, recent Spanish press reports to the effect that Ryanair has been threatening the Spanish Government in this same way if it does not turn a blind eye to Ryanair´s failure to date to pay a series of major fines levied by consumer authorities make me wonder
Given Iberia and Spanirs performance over the years then a history of all the fines levied and paid by them would also be useful.
Otherwise it them comes down to an unelected Quango imposing fines on whoever it dislikes with a party unable to defend itself in any court of law or see the evidence the Quango has manufactured.
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Consumer protection patterns EU/world wide.
My knowledge of adminstrative-judicial structures of this nature is limited in the extreme and so I cannot undertake any exercise of comparing & contrasting as you request. I do however suggest that the Spanish structure may well be more common than any sort of UK system.
Given my former clear statements on the matter you will not be surprised that the idea of a Spanish consumer body enforcing the rights of consumers agains such a low class organisation as Ryanair does not cause me any grief. Whatsoever !
Indeed were the consumer organisation concerned to belittle, to mock and to ridicule The Leprechaun himself in a way resembling that in which his employees (though I use the word loosely as they are seldom if ever "employees" in any juridical sense) around Europe berate passengers, especially those whom they perceive as socially vulnerable then not only would I not suffer any grief, I would actually smile a little smile of happiness.
Figures for Iberia and Spanair would indeed be interesting. Past and present figures too.
It would also incidentally, be interesting to know when the Spanish consumer authorities are finally going to enforce the Spanish law which states clearly that it is unlawful to charge seperately for baggage as any sort of extra outwith the ticket price; vague though the concept of ticket price may be for many LCC. Ryanair especially. A law which Ryanair (easyJet, Vueling and I don´t know how many others) break day in and day out.
Figures for fines levied on the low-class-carrier-par-excellence throughout the EU would indeed be interesting too. Though as this post is premised on Ryanar´s attempt to evade the fines in question, we would need to have a seperate column for fines paid, as against fines levied.
Given my former clear statements on the matter you will not be surprised that the idea of a Spanish consumer body enforcing the rights of consumers agains such a low class organisation as Ryanair does not cause me any grief. Whatsoever !
Indeed were the consumer organisation concerned to belittle, to mock and to ridicule The Leprechaun himself in a way resembling that in which his employees (though I use the word loosely as they are seldom if ever "employees" in any juridical sense) around Europe berate passengers, especially those whom they perceive as socially vulnerable then not only would I not suffer any grief, I would actually smile a little smile of happiness.
Figures for Iberia and Spanair would indeed be interesting. Past and present figures too.
It would also incidentally, be interesting to know when the Spanish consumer authorities are finally going to enforce the Spanish law which states clearly that it is unlawful to charge seperately for baggage as any sort of extra outwith the ticket price; vague though the concept of ticket price may be for many LCC. Ryanair especially. A law which Ryanair (easyJet, Vueling and I don´t know how many others) break day in and day out.
Figures for fines levied on the low-class-carrier-par-excellence throughout the EU would indeed be interesting too. Though as this post is premised on Ryanar´s attempt to evade the fines in question, we would need to have a seperate column for fines paid, as against fines levied.
Last edited by BigFrank; 17th May 2011 at 16:11. Reason: Capitalisation error
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I agree 100% with IB4138.
NEWYEAR - You are creating an entirely false expectation with your post. It is factually wrong. You have no basis whatsoever to say with any level of confidence that ´Spanair is about to close´.
Further, you have corrected yourself in your 3rd post on the subject by saying ´Spanair is about to close if it can not find investors who squander their money, in my opinion.´
...when you consider defending your position, as likely you will (I hope not), please think about those people who are either directly or indirectly connected to the airline, for better or worse.
In my opinion you have misinterpreted the SAS statement, and created an expectation that has no basis in fact. I urge you to qualify or remove it, and allow the general thread on airline investment to run its course.
TBF.
NEWYEAR - You are creating an entirely false expectation with your post. It is factually wrong. You have no basis whatsoever to say with any level of confidence that ´Spanair is about to close´.
Further, you have corrected yourself in your 3rd post on the subject by saying ´Spanair is about to close if it can not find investors who squander their money, in my opinion.´
...when you consider defending your position, as likely you will (I hope not), please think about those people who are either directly or indirectly connected to the airline, for better or worse.
In my opinion you have misinterpreted the SAS statement, and created an expectation that has no basis in fact. I urge you to qualify or remove it, and allow the general thread on airline investment to run its course.
TBF.
My knowledge of adminstrative-judicial structures of this nature is limited in the extreme and so I cannot undertake any exercise of comparing & contrasting as you request. I do however suggest that the Spanish structure may well be more common than any sort of UK system.
As for rest of the diatribe think best leave it where it belongs .
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Use of the English language to convey meaning
"...claim it is widespread" is your interpretation of the words "may well be more common than...." which I wrote to express my opinion as to how common the Spanish-style of administrative-judicial decision making might be elsewhere in the EU and then world-wide
Though I believe that you have clearly not understood my statement (or worse) readers will be the judge.
Though I believe that you have clearly not understood my statement (or worse) readers will be the judge.
It is very unusual for the plug to be pulled at the start of the summer season. If there is any positive cashflow it will be over the next few months. However if I worked for Spanair now looks to be the time to start dusting off the cv ready for what might happen in autumn.
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Possible tie up with Turkish Airlines ?
That at least is the story being headlined by one of the main Spanish economic papers this morning, Expansion.
I know nothing of the economics or the avionics (sic) but the politico-cultural- sponsorship background might be worth commenting on.
Turkish Airlines are currently one of the major sponsors both of the Barcelona FC ( a well known local soccer team who have not been strangers to success in recent years... or indeed days) and of Euroleague, the basketball equivalent of the combined European Champions League & UEFA Cup (old name), which has its HQ in Barcelona. So in those relatively trivial terms "it makes sense" and to some extent it builds on pre-exisiting links given the small country nature of Catalonia and its petita i alta burgesía catalana cohort of movers and shakers in all the fields just mentioned. Most others too. ( A bit like The City ?)
Now whether any of this is a solid basis for a tie up between 2 airlines, one from within the EU and one from outwith, I will leave to others with more knowledge.
I know nothing of the economics or the avionics (sic) but the politico-cultural- sponsorship background might be worth commenting on.
Turkish Airlines are currently one of the major sponsors both of the Barcelona FC ( a well known local soccer team who have not been strangers to success in recent years... or indeed days) and of Euroleague, the basketball equivalent of the combined European Champions League & UEFA Cup (old name), which has its HQ in Barcelona. So in those relatively trivial terms "it makes sense" and to some extent it builds on pre-exisiting links given the small country nature of Catalonia and its petita i alta burgesía catalana cohort of movers and shakers in all the fields just mentioned. Most others too. ( A bit like The City ?)
Now whether any of this is a solid basis for a tie up between 2 airlines, one from within the EU and one from outwith, I will leave to others with more knowledge.
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Spanair
Spanair will cease all operations today.
En Espanol (Sorry) http://www.preferente.com/transporte...at-179826.html
This is after Qatar walked away from talks this morning.
Qatar Airways leaves Spanair talks -shareholder | Reuters
En Espanol (Sorry) http://www.preferente.com/transporte...at-179826.html
This is after Qatar walked away from talks this morning.
Qatar Airways leaves Spanair talks -shareholder | Reuters
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Devastating news have fond memories of flying with Spanair to Majorca for the holidays always love them but serious miss management has most likely lead to this along with the crash of JK5022, sincere thoughts to all staff involved.
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Spanair to cease operations
Email just received from ABTA:
Good Afternoon
We have heard reports that Spanair is due to cease all operations tonight at midnight. We have not received official communication in relation to this however it is being reported in the Spanish press.
We understand that Spanair do not operate to UK airports. If you require our assistance please email [email protected]
Good Afternoon
We have heard reports that Spanair is due to cease all operations tonight at midnight. We have not received official communication in relation to this however it is being reported in the Spanish press.
We understand that Spanair do not operate to UK airports. If you require our assistance please email [email protected]