CARDIFF - 2
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apart from a 6 week period in summer to the usual suspects in the med this airport will be a drain on the long suffering Welsh tax payer (are there any??) the same could be said of Prestwick
Most will pay the toll and cross the Severn to BRS
Most will pay the toll and cross the Severn to BRS
Join Date: Jul 2004
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this airport will be a drain on the long suffering Welsh tax payer (are there any??) the same could be said of Prestwick
Most will pay the toll and cross the Severn to BRS
Join Date: Apr 2013
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As usual a lot of negative comments again.......the question is do you actually use these routes or not ?? I've already travelled with CityJet to GLA and off to ORY in the next couple of days time......having used Flybe & BMI baby I can honestly say I far prefer CityJet, the service is great and yes it's a F50 but it gets you to your destination at a good price too.
People need to stop slating CityJet, they've stepped in.....yes it's a big chance for them and people need to use them and not slate them. After all why should we travel to BRS, I live in Swansea and will use CWL.
People need to stop slating CityJet, they've stepped in.....yes it's a big chance for them and people need to use them and not slate them. After all why should we travel to BRS, I live in Swansea and will use CWL.
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I don't get this fixation that the Old South Wales brigade have with BRS, that BRS is the root of all evil and were BRS not there then CWL's problems would be solved.
BRS is a pain in the butt to travel to/from S. Wales, I should know, I drove the crew transport route many a time, when from central Cardiff BHX is less than 2 hours away, dual carriageways all the way, and with a much better offering of services than Lulsgate Bottom offers.
BRS is a pain in the butt to travel to/from S. Wales, I should know, I drove the crew transport route many a time, when from central Cardiff BHX is less than 2 hours away, dual carriageways all the way, and with a much better offering of services than Lulsgate Bottom offers.
Cardiff to BHX is 120 miles and takes 2 hours, or 1h55 if you have completely clear roads
Cardiff to BRS is 50 miles and takes 1h05 or 1h10
When CWL is not an option I agree some people will have good reason to choose BHX, but I can think of plenty of cases when other people would choose BRS instead.
Cardiff to BRS is 50 miles and takes 1h05 or 1h10
When CWL is not an option I agree some people will have good reason to choose BHX, but I can think of plenty of cases when other people would choose BRS instead.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Cardiff Central to Brum Airport is 115 miles, don't believe the route planners because they route one over the Severn Xing when the route to take is the A449/A40/M50 link and with no toll to pay.
I'm out of date but going back a few years daily BHX offered something like 5 KLM services to AMS, 9 LH services to three different LH hubs, 3 Swiss services to ZRH, SN to BRU, SAS to CPH, a few AF services to CDG, Emirates to DXB with all the thru connections to Asia, Air India plus the IT Holiday and LoCo stuff and probably others that I can't recall.
I'd suggest that an extra 30 (ish) minutes each way in the car, whilst avoiding a hefty toll, isn't such a bad consideration!
I'm out of date but going back a few years daily BHX offered something like 5 KLM services to AMS, 9 LH services to three different LH hubs, 3 Swiss services to ZRH, SN to BRU, SAS to CPH, a few AF services to CDG, Emirates to DXB with all the thru connections to Asia, Air India plus the IT Holiday and LoCo stuff and probably others that I can't recall.
I'd suggest that an extra 30 (ish) minutes each way in the car, whilst avoiding a hefty toll, isn't such a bad consideration!
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Or a few miles longer and you are at London Heathrow with routes to everywhere! Agree with PF why the fixation about BRS, I am sorry to say I fear it is about an attitude that seems prevalent in Wales.
I did a TV interview launching Air Wales and the reporters opening question was " Tell me Mr xxxx, what makes you think this airline wont fail".... I made him start again and ask some serious questions, says it all really.
PS: Before the smart ass comments yes it did fail in the end but long after I walked out, things could have been different.
I did a TV interview launching Air Wales and the reporters opening question was " Tell me Mr xxxx, what makes you think this airline wont fail".... I made him start again and ask some serious questions, says it all really.
PS: Before the smart ass comments yes it did fail in the end but long after I walked out, things could have been different.
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Or a few miles longer and you are at London Heathrow
From CWL Airport to the M4/M25 intersection, cruising at 80mph and using the original Severn Xing, was precisely 2 hours so Cardiff Central to Heathrow would be about 2 hours also.
Trouble is that LHR is expensive and a nightmare to navigate, BHX, by comparison, is a pussy cat!
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Greetings PF from Canada to the tropics!
So the point we both make is that there are so many options just a little further than Bristol.... so why the constant Cardiff vs Bristol debate.
So the point we both make is that there are so many options just a little further than Bristol.... so why the constant Cardiff vs Bristol debate.
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why the constant Cardiff vs Bristol debate
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Letsflycwl - out of interest, what were the loads like on your GLA flights ? What kind of service did they provide ?
Brunel to Concorde
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Looking at influences that dictate the success or otherwise of CWL means it's inevitable that competing airports will feature, so it's really no surprise that BRS (especially), BHX and the main London airports will enter any discussion.
In 2012 the CAA passenger survey looked, inter alia, at CWL, BRS, BHX and the London airports.
In terms of origin/destination of terminal passengers LHR saw 3.008 million from the South West (larger than any other area except the South East and East), 1.206 million from the West Midlands and 824,000 from Wales. The corresponding figures for LGW were 1.521 million, 466,000 and 400,000.
CWL saw 30,000 from the South West, 4,000 from the West Midlands and 2,000 from the South East.
BRS saw 1.098 million from Wales (more than used CWL in entirety in 2012), 134,000 from the West Midlands and 132,000 from the South East.
BHX saw 456,000 from the South West, 358,000 from the South East and 192,000 from Wales.
So whichever way they are looked at the figures show CWL haemorrhaging passengers to other airports at a vastly greater rate than they are flowing to it from those other airports' catchments, with BRS a particularly large recipient.
This is no surprise because the general tenor of these figures has been in place for at least a decade, especially CWL vis a vis BRS. The CWL master plan of nearly a decade ago recognised the huge disparity but since then matters have if anything worsened.
Turning to CityJet, it's reported today that the airline's CEO said, “Today in CityJet we are over the 65% load factor. If these routes [Cardiff] are consistent with the rest of our operation we are confident it will be sustainable.”
She said it was too early to say if additional routes would be added but added, “If it makes sense with the right businesses cases, yields and number of passengers, then yes we would do it."
There are reports in another aviation forum that some early flights on the Glasgow service had fewer than 20 passengers but the lateness of booking availability must be taken into account, and the fact that Flybe on its GLA and EDI routes averaged easily in excess of the 32/33 passengers required to reach a 65% load factor for CityJet means there is no real reason to believe that the airline won't achieve this particular target.
In 2012 the CAA passenger survey looked, inter alia, at CWL, BRS, BHX and the London airports.
In terms of origin/destination of terminal passengers LHR saw 3.008 million from the South West (larger than any other area except the South East and East), 1.206 million from the West Midlands and 824,000 from Wales. The corresponding figures for LGW were 1.521 million, 466,000 and 400,000.
CWL saw 30,000 from the South West, 4,000 from the West Midlands and 2,000 from the South East.
BRS saw 1.098 million from Wales (more than used CWL in entirety in 2012), 134,000 from the West Midlands and 132,000 from the South East.
BHX saw 456,000 from the South West, 358,000 from the South East and 192,000 from Wales.
So whichever way they are looked at the figures show CWL haemorrhaging passengers to other airports at a vastly greater rate than they are flowing to it from those other airports' catchments, with BRS a particularly large recipient.
This is no surprise because the general tenor of these figures has been in place for at least a decade, especially CWL vis a vis BRS. The CWL master plan of nearly a decade ago recognised the huge disparity but since then matters have if anything worsened.
Turning to CityJet, it's reported today that the airline's CEO said, “Today in CityJet we are over the 65% load factor. If these routes [Cardiff] are consistent with the rest of our operation we are confident it will be sustainable.”
She said it was too early to say if additional routes would be added but added, “If it makes sense with the right businesses cases, yields and number of passengers, then yes we would do it."
There are reports in another aviation forum that some early flights on the Glasgow service had fewer than 20 passengers but the lateness of booking availability must be taken into account, and the fact that Flybe on its GLA and EDI routes averaged easily in excess of the 32/33 passengers required to reach a 65% load factor for CityJet means there is no real reason to believe that the airline won't achieve this particular target.
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There are reports in another aviation forum that some early flights on the Glasgow service had fewer than 20 passengers but the lateness of booking availability must be taken into account, and the fact that Flybe on its GLA and EDI routes averaged easily in excess of the 32/33 passengers required to reach a 65% load factor for CityJet means there is no real reason to believe that the airline won't achieve this particular target.
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Sorry but I don't sit there and do a head count when I'm travelling but considering the F50 holds 50 seats, I would say there was at least 25-30 on board, which considering was week 1 for the airline not bad !!
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Wasn't aimed at you mate.......so no apology needed, I thought the loads were very reasonable for Week 1 & hopefully with all the marketing will gradually increase. Off to ORY next so will see how that goes !!
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http://www.senedd.assemblywales.org/...%20Airport.pdf
Not sure who's been surveyed for this but the desired destination list would look interesting on the cwl boards! Bring on the Auckland flights!
Not sure who's been surveyed for this but the desired destination list would look interesting on the cwl boards! Bring on the Auckland flights!
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Interesting write up by the Welsh Assembly. (Thank you bycrewlgw)
Those forecasts especially the BRS one by 2020 seem slightly wrong with the way things are going there.
The new development that's going through at BRS now will just increase the strength of the Airport over CWL.
New destinations look a bit ambitious, but maybe by 2020 they might get a few of them.
Those forecasts especially the BRS one by 2020 seem slightly wrong with the way things are going there.
The new development that's going through at BRS now will just increase the strength of the Airport over CWL.
New destinations look a bit ambitious, but maybe by 2020 they might get a few of them.
Last edited by Capt. Tango; 2nd Feb 2014 at 00:13. Reason: Change of phrase